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Full Version: The Truth about the WC at Last
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Albert Doyle Wrote:
Drew Phipps Wrote:Why would Bringuier need to be briefed?



Because he had seen Oswald acting like a strong anti-Castro supporter volunteering his services. The whole Oswald/Bringuier thing was probably arranged, but after the assassination it was important to sell Oswald as the Lone Nut commie.

The anti-castro pretense predates the pro-castro leafleting, the fight, the court appearance, etc. Bringuier, whether he's knowingly working with the CIA or not (with respect to Cuba), wouldn't need a "briefing" or talking points to talk on the post-assassination TV show, as he has been personally involved with each of those steps and can just repeat true things that he personally witnessed. Set-up, or no set-up, Bringuier needs only to be a witness at that point. No point in risking a contact between handler and asset for him to repeat well documented and published events.
Don Jeffries Wrote:Tracy,

We're dealing with semantics here. No one accused Bill Clinton of causing Hale Boggs' plane to vanish. The important and interesting point here is that Clinton was a young, seemingly unconnected guy at that point in his life. How did he get in a position to drive such a powerful person to the airport? And while that flight wasn't into oblivion, it did represent Boggs' exit from the political world.


In this interview with Professor James Tracy, Andrew Kreig states that Bill Clinton was connected to the CIA as early as his days as a Rhodes Scholar in Oxford:

http://t.co/ZZ0AbCNja3


This is a claim that I have heard from other sources in the past, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least. Perhaps Kreig expands upon it further in his book, Presidential Puppetry.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Presidential-Pup...drew+kreig
Peter Lemkin Wrote:
Albert Doyle Wrote:Off-Topic: Simkin just showed his true colors on the EF by saying the FBI files might prove the Commission correct. Now I understand the context of DiEugenio's booting.


Which FBI files do you and he refer? The one's about Boggs?!

I just read that thread.

Simkin is actually writing about the Hiss case. What he is saying is that the Venona files--he calls them NSA taps--were accurate about Hiss. And therefore he was really a spy and Chambers was right.

Kai Bird has done some very good work on these Venona taps, and he shows they do not prove what people like Weinstein say they do.

Further, using Thomas Powers,(Richard Helms' official biographer) as Simkin does, to back Weinstein, is sort of like using Hugh Aynesworth to back up someone like James Phelan on the JFK case.

Read this article about Weinstein, its clearly revealing about his methods. His publisher paid the KGB for access to Soviet Cold War docs. And then he would not let anyone else see them. His translator then disagreed with how Weinstein described them in his book, The Haunted Wood:

http://www.thenation.com/article/archive...-weinstein

Further, even though he promised to give all his tapes and transcripts of interviews from his 1978 book on Hiss to the Truman Library, as of the date of that article, 2004, he still had not done so.

And I cannot help but note how Simkin casts off the fine film from 1978 about the Hiss case. The climax of that film is one of the jurors being shown the documents proving that the FBI planted the wrong tyepwriter, on the prosecution to connect Hiss to the ridiculous documents Chambers said he got from Hiss. THe defense never challenged the typewriter in court. If they had, the case would have exploded right then and there and Hiss would have been granted a mistrial. Because some think the FBI actually manufactured the typewriter.

I don't know how he can say the FBI was protecting Hiss. The declassified record shows that the FBI served as a private investigation service for the prosecution. And the typewriter was not the only thing they faked and planted. There were also records of a car sale that Chambers said he and Hiss exchanged. These records were later exposed as ersatz and very likely faked by the Bureau.

To compare the Hiss case with the JFK case is really far out there. They are not at all similar. Everything we get from the FBI shows more and more that Oswald was a patsy. Including the substitution of CE 399.

I am not aware of this new stuff he is talking about released by the FBI. But at this late date, I would look upon it with a jaundiced eye. And to say Chambers is now supported is, to me, pretty hard to accept. Chambers told so many outright lies on the stand, its breathtaking. One of the best books on that case is by the English barrister, The Earl Jowitt. It was one of the first out, in 1953. He exposed Chambers as a pathological liar to such an extent that it permanently impacted my view of that case.

Finally, John ignores the fact that Weinstein was not just exposed as using faulty research, and having his witnesses later deny what he wrote about them, but he later got his ticket punched. The Republicans made him chief archivist at NARA ( in other words he held sway over the JFK collection) and he worked with the CIA through his own group, the Center for Democracy, with the National Endowment for Democracy. This latter was the group that has spent tens of millions in places like Ukraine to ring the USSR with NATO allies. Clearly, his book was a put up job for career advancement. Which he got.

Hiss may or may not have been a spy. But the case is much more ambiguous than he depicts it.

OTOH, Oswald had nothing to do with the killing of President Kennedy. And we can prove that today in spades, nine ways to Sunday.
Thanks.


There's no doubt at the end Simkin infers that just like the withheld FBI files on Hiss the withheld FBI files on Kennedy might show the Warren Commission was right about Oswald all along.
Yes, there is no doubt about that.

And i think the comparison, for many reasons, is not merited.
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:Yes, there is no doubt about that.

And i think the comparison, for many reasons, is not merited.

I haven't looked at Simkin's posts...I find it difficult to even look on that site now, after how I was dealt with there, but take your [pl.] word for it on what he said and meant.

As Boggs [and others] said, 'The FBI/Hoover lied their eyes out to the WC'...and I might add about Hiss too [likely]. I believe they lied not only in their speech; in what they investigated vs. didn't investigate; in what they allowed be know vs. what they suppressed; AND in producing phony information in their documents [and putting false spin even on real information] - likely in both cases - but with 100% certainty in the JFK case!!!! Hoover knew LHO was nothing but a patsy, but painted him as THE assassin....before the WC, and in various ways in FBI documents as well as FBI activities vs. non-activities.
It looks like an early incarnation of the CIA fabricated a typewriter in order to make it match the one Hiss was alleged to have used in copying State Department documents for transfer to the Soviets. The evidence is too vague. Hiss might have been a liberal who flirted with communism back when it was more like labor organizing but didn't really inhale so he felt justified denying he was ever a communist. It sounds like the Hiss matter was more a case of the McCarthy-ites needing Hiss to be a commie than Hiss actually being one. Meanwhile the people who framed him and their culture went on to kill the Kennedy brothers.


What do you expect of a site that boots DiEugenio and keeps the Lone Nut troll Von Pein?
Drew Phipps Wrote:The anti-castro pretense predates the pro-castro leafleting, the fight, the court appearance, etc. Bringuier, whether he's knowingly working with the CIA or not (with respect to Cuba), wouldn't need a "briefing" or talking points to talk on the post-assassination TV show, as he has been personally involved with each of those steps and can just repeat true things that he personally witnessed. Set-up, or no set-up, Bringuier needs only to be a witness at that point. No point in risking a contact between handler and asset for him to repeat well documented and published events.




I can't remember the thread but recently someone posted that Phillips was running the Bringuier/Quiroga crew in New Orleans. From the looks of it, to me Bringuier looks like he's been coached to paint Oswald as a dedicated Castro-ite, which was the tack of those who set him up in Mexico. The Bringuier group may have been more closely run than you realize which is why they were trusted with the handbill job.
What Morley's lawsuit shows is that there was a cover up about Bringuier's group, the DRE, during the HSCA inquiry.

And that cover up continues to this day at CIA.
Simkin replied to DiEugenio on EF. He didn't mention why they would need to fake a typewriter if Hiss was truly that guilty?
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