https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/...7377/m1/1/
This is a link o Shelley's first day statement he made on 22/11/63. According to this statement, he met Gloria Calvery on the opposite side of the Elm St. extension we see Running Woman on. Therefore, the woman seen running toward the TSBD steps cannot be Gloria Calvery, unless Bill Shelley lied in his first day statement.
The Shelley first day affidavit doesn't conflict with what we see in Dunkel. Bob, let's get this straight. You are using strict semantics from testimony to deny what we see in the film evidence. The Dunkel clip clearly shows Lovelady and Shelley walking together and Shelley "pulls up" in order to hear what Calvery is saying. There's nothing in the Shelley statement that precludes him hopping out to the island quickly and then walking up the Extension where Dunkel shows him encountering Calvery. Don't play dumb Bob, this is clearly what it is. I think you are having reality issues since the Dunkel clip shows it happening right in front of you.
The most likely reason for the false testimony of the 3 minute delay is because the plotters realized Oswald was exonerated by being witnessed in the lunchroom. You Murphy-ites have it backwards. It was actually the strength of the lunchroom witnessing that caused the plotters to corrupt the evidence.
The plotters then corrupted Victoria Adams' testimony by using this false additional 3 minutes to take her past the timing of not seeing Oswald on the stairs.
Come on Bob. You can't get away with denying Frazier said Shelley was visibly taller than Lovelady. It is confirmed by what you see in Dunkel.
Miller and Molina have you guys. Truly and Baker were seen as being the first through the front door. Now Bart Kamp has taken over the Education Forum and is going to block anyone who points this out. Of all the farces...
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What the Murphy-ites are denying is we have proven Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton by the evidence. The best images show a person with woman's long hair and a purse. Lately some of the posters on the Education Forum also detected woman's wide hips.
Davidson's enhanced Wiegman image shows the clearly visible face of Sarah Stanton. Our height analysis also proves Prayer Man is too short to be Oswald.
The Dunkel Film conclusively shows Gloria Calvery running up to the portal while passing Shelley and Lovelady headed to the railyard.
When combined with Molina's testimony of Calvery confronting him in the lobby 30 seconds or so after the shots, the Dunkel Film proves the woman seen running and shouting is indeed Calvery. It's the only person it can be.
Knowing that Dunkel proves Calvery ran up to the portal around 30 seconds after the shots, this proves that Frazier's claim that a woman ran up shouting the president has been shot, right at the same time as the famous Darnell Prayer Man image, is accurate. Which in turn proves that Frazier's claim that he was facing and talking to Sarah Stanton when Calvery ran up is also accurate. This is simple proof that Prayer Man is Depository employee Sarah Stanton.
You're not reading Shelley's statement very closely, Albert, which somehow does not surprise me.
He says "I ran across the street to the corner of the park and ran into a girl crying......".
He is neither 1) across the street yet, as the two men are in the middle of the street or 2) at the corner of the park, as the man in the film is still beside the concrete island.
Running Woman is 1) on the opposite side of the street from the concrete island and 2) well past the corner of the park before "Shelley" even gets close to it.
Your fantasy will not work unless you are willing to state Bill Shelley lied in his first day statement.
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/...7377/m1/1/
Bob Prudhomme Wrote:You're not reading Shelley's statement very closely, Albert, which somehow does not surprise me.
He says "I ran across the street to the corner of the park and ran into a girl crying......".
He is neither 1) across the street yet, as the two men are in the middle of the street or 2) at the corner of the park, as the man in the film is still beside the concrete island.
Running Woman is 1) on the opposite side of the street from the concrete island and 2) well past the corner of the park before "Shelley" even gets close to it.
Your fantasy will not work unless you are willing to state Bill Shelley lied in his first day statement.
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/...7377/m1/1/
You're not addressing the full context of this Bob. We know from the Dunkel Film that Shelley and Lovelady did a lot more than what was mentioned in your linked affidavit. When viewed in its correct condensed context the statement is contracting Shelley's running to the island and then walking up the Extension into one sentence. Your interpretation is trying to force Shelley's meeting Calvery to the island but we know that didn't happen by simply looking at the Dunkel Film that clearly shows Shelley encountering Calvery as he walks up the Extension.
If you correctly interpreted what you are analyzing you would realize the timing of the Dunkel Film allows Shelley to jut out to the island and then head up the Elm St Extension where he meets Calvery. I am still having trouble understanding what problem you are having with the Dunkel Film that shows exactly this. It shows Shelley pulling up in order to hear what Calvery is saying. The woman is 100% Calvery because she fits every single witness statement and also locks right in to Molina's timing.
Bob, the film shows Shelley encountering Calvery on the Elm St Extension. This is the reality and also the means by which to calibrate the statements and evidence. It also does not preclude Shelley going to the island first, nor does it mean he is lying in his affidavit.
What's bizarre about this is the unknown woman who came in with Calvery to the lobby, as witnessed by Molina, could very well be Sarah Stanton (Prayer Man).
"The woman is 100% Calvery because she fits every single witness statement and also locks right in to Molina's timing."
Please show evidence for "Molina's timing", whatever that might be.
Ah, the Dunkel Film maybe that shows all this on film exactly according to the timing Molina claimed.
Albert Doyle Wrote:Ah, the Dunkel Film maybe that shows all this on film exactly according to the timing Molina claimed.
WHAT timing did Moina claim? I've read Molina's WC testimony many times and the only timing he makes reference to is when Roy Samson Truly entered the TSBD.
NOT Officer Marrion Baker who he never saw enter the TSBD, and NOT Gloria Calvery, who he saw enter the TSBD but does NOT say WHEN she answered the TSBD.
What Molina timing reference are you speaking of, Albert?
I'll tell you what, Albert. I'm going to do something I really shouldn't do but, I've decided the truth is more important than winning debates, and after studying the whole Shelley/Calvery/Baker thing for many years, I've reached a rather startling conclusion. I'm going to share it with you now.
For a long time now, researchers have desperately tried to peg Running Woman as Gloria Calvery, despite the fact there is not a shred of evidence to indicate this is who Running Woman is.
Want to know a secret? If we go strictly by Shelley's first day statement
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67...th337377/m1/1/ we don't need Running Woman to be Gloria Calvery.
Shelley and Lovelady could have left the steps, walked down the middle of the Elm St. extension and looked back to see Truly and Baker enter the TSBD.
THEN, Shelley and Lovelady could have kept walking a few more feet and met Gloria Calvery crying at the corner of the park (just west of the concrete island) where she told them about the assassination. Following that, they could have walked to the rail yard.
You guys have spent years trying to get Gloria Calvery running up Baker's butt, and for what?
Don't say I never gave you anything.
Quote:Mr. BALL. No, I mean when Truly went in; did you see Truly actually go into the building?
Mr. MOLINA. I saw him go in.
Mr. BALL. Where were you standing?
Mr. MOLINA. Right at the front door; right at the front door.
Mr. BALL. Outside the front door?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes, outside the front door I was standing; the door was right behind me.
Mr. BALL. Were you standing on the steps?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes, on the uppermost step.
Mr. BALL. You actually saw Truly go
Mr. MOLINA. Yeah.
Mr. BALL. You were still standing there?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. How long was it after you heard the shots?
Mr. MOLINA. Oh, I would venture to say maybe 20 or 30 seconds afterwards.
There's no doubt Molina is indicating that Truly went in 20-30 seconds after the shots. If we look at the Dunkel Film we see Truly outside the portal on the street. If you observe closely you can see him turn towards Baker and start to lift his leg just as Darnell pans away. I don't think you realize Ball has phrased his questioning in order to establish that he is talking about the 30 second time point.
Quote:Mr. BALL. Had somebody come up and said the President was shot before
you saw Truly go in?
Mr. MOLINA. No.
Mr. BALL. Do you know a girl named Gloria Calvary?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did Gloria come up?
Ms.. MOLINA. Yes, she came. I was in the lobby standing there and she came in with this other girl.
Mr. BALL. What did she say?
Mr. MOLINA. She said "Oh, my God, Joe, he's been shot." They were both horrified. I said "Are you sure he was shot?" She said "Oh, Joe ,I'm sure. I saw his hair fly up and I'm sure he was shot" something to that extent.
Having established he was referring to the 30 second time point Ball then refers to Gloria Calvery under the presumption he has established that time point as the period during which these events occurred. If you were a more clever detective (and more honest) you would see the clues for this in the phrasing Ball uses. For one thing Ball says "Did Gloria come up?" Calvery was coming up the stairs and in. Ball was clearly referring to Calvery coming in the front door when he said "Did Gloria come up?" You also would have noticed that Molina said "She came in". Coming in is what they are talking about with Truly and is clearly also the assumed context they are talking about with Calvery. Clearly. Again, a better detective would notice that Molina said "She came in with this other girl". Gloria would not have come back from her office with another girl. She'd be more likely to return alone. Molina is clearly talking about all the people seen in Darnell coming in through the front door.
But I already pointed out for Molina to be referring to Calvery coming back from her office to the lobby 3-4 minutes later that would mean of all the people who were out there and even heard Calvery shouting Kennedy had been shot that none of them mentioned anything and it wasn't until Calvery returned to the lobby 4 minutes later that Molina first heard it. Not likely considering how many people went in to the lobby and what they would have been talking about. When I make a good point like this Bob you never answer it. Molina is clearly referring to Calvery's entry to the lobby from the steps. She was telling people on the way that JFK had been shot and continued to do so when entering the building. It doesn't matter if Molina spells it out directly or not it is clearly the context in which he is speaking.
When you apply this true and correct context to the events seen in Dunkel it creates a calibrated timeline by which to determine those events.
What's your game her Bob? Why are you trying to twist things against the obvious?