Deep Politics Forum

I find it interesting that I know so little about the Pat Tillman death. What I mean is it was a big story, but the stories were segmented far apart, and very non-blanket covered. There would be elements here then nothing for months then elements there.

Why does it matter? Was Tillman killed because he was really beginning to become a threat to go public with his opposition to the war? To what extent was he really going public over policy?

Some will think this is about media celebrity. To my thinking it is and it isn't. Somebody like Tillman would have been able to generate media access precisely because of who he was. Hence if he was murdered because of this threat of media access with dissent, it could be epistomologically significant and worth my time at least.

Do you think that Tillman was really becoming a threat to go public in opposition to the policies? Also how about the way this story was fragmentation-"covered"?

Every intelligence operation has at least two objectives.

1. Silence a voice of truth with access to damning inside information -- a devastatingly persuasive voice of opposition to the war criminals that could not have been ignored.

Were PT's wounds clustered at center mass or elsewhere -- that is, in any way indicative of targeting by a trained sniper who could not have acquired his/her target without clearly identifying it? Was the body disposed of hastily, before a full and impartial p.m. could be conducted?

2. Create a Horst Wessel for the Holy Cause -- a natural follow-up to the 9-11 Reichstag fire.

Same family, different crew -- with apologies to LCN.

Nathaniel,
I don't think enough real information is out there to help answer your questions.I'm sure that Tillmans family knows more about this than anyone else.The fact that his brother was also on the same mission(although not with him at the time of the killing).The probability that he was much liked by the other soldiers with him.I am inclined to think that it was just a friendly fire accident,and the soldiers "freaked" when they realized what happened.Then,they tried to cover things up.I don't know,just my sorta educated guess.Friendly fire accidents happen all to often.I've seen it happen myself in Vietnam.Shit,I even took a stray.22 caliber round in my side while just sitting on a rock fishing in California!Strange things happen when lead is flying about.Can you post some information that will shed some light on the situation?

Quote:2. Create a Horst Wessel for the Holy Cause -- a natural follow-up to the 9-11 Reichstag fire.

Yes,this is what the Pentagon did with Pat Tillmans death.When you also add the fact that the Army brass would tell the Tillmans one thing,and then they would find out later that it wasn't true,and this happened several times.I think this could explain the fragmentation in the media coverage.The story kept changing.

I still don't believe that it was murder,or an intelligence operation.

Kevin Tillman, Pat's brother, wrote this essay Pat's birthday. It's powerful.

After Pat’s Birthday

Posted on Oct 19, 2006



Courtesy of the Tillman Family
Pat Tillman (left) and his brother Kevin stand in front of a Chinook helicopter in Saudi Arabia before their tour of duty as Army Rangers in Iraq in 2003.

By Kevin Tillman

Editor’s note: Kevin Tillman joined the Army with his brother Pat in 2002, and they served together in Iraq and Afghanistan. Pat was killed in Afghanistan on April 22, 2004. Kevin, who was discharged in 2005, has written a powerful, must-read document.

It is Pat’s birthday on November 6, and elections are the day after. It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. How once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown in a direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a voice… until we got out.

Much has happened since we handed over our voice:

Somehow we were sent to invade a nation because it was a direct threat to the American people, or to the world, or harbored terrorists, or was involved in the September 11 attacks, or received weapons-grade uranium from Niger, or had mobile weapons labs, or WMD, or had a need to be liberated, or we needed to establish a democracy, or stop an insurgency, or stop a civil war we created that can’t be called a civil war even though it is. Something like that.

Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law and humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly not charging them with anything, secretly torturing them. Somehow that overt policy of torture became the fault of a few “bad apples” in the military.
Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a five-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It’s interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a five-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle 50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat.
Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes.
Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground.
Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started.
Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated.
Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.
Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.
Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated.
Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.
Somehow torture is tolerated.
Somehow lying is tolerated.
Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense.
Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.
Somehow a narrative is more important than reality.
Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.
Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared, and distrusted countries in the world.
Somehow being politically informed, diligent, and skeptical has been replaced by apathy through active ignorance.
Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country.
Somehow this is tolerated.
Somehow nobody is accountable for this.
In a democracy, the policy of the leaders is the policy of the people. So don’t be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity. Most likely, they will come to know that “somehow” was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable to unchecked, unchallenged parasites.
Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat’s birthday.


Brother and Friend of Pat Tillman,
Kevin Tillman

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/2006..._birthday/

Keith Millea Wrote:I still don't believe that it was murder,or an intelligence operation.

Nor do I.

But I suspect that it was murder dictated by the objectives of an intel op, and I'm joining with others in searching for the truth no matter what it may be. If I'm wrong, so be it.

I'd note this for the record: One valid method of investigation is to formulate a hypothesis and seek evidence for and against it.

My hypothesis in re the Tilman shooting is succinctly stated above. Let the truth be known.

Myra,
Thanks for that.Powerful statement,that was!Kevin is the person who I would trust more than anyone to know the most of what happened.That was a full attack against the Bush Regime,but I would love to hear what he has to say about what he thinks happened to Pat.

Charles,
I have done some checking,and have found where there could be some evidence of conspiracy.With Cheney anything is possible........


As Tillman's brother Kevin testified,

I saw something on this as recently as two months ago. It was Tillman's parents commenting on how they completely mistrusted McChristal?sp Obamas new boss in Quagmiristan. He was the dude put in charge of the coverup if im not mistaken. The nature of that letter suggests Pat was quite a ways on in his political critique of the US goal. That kind of attitude-- if it was typical of Pats point of view at the time and not generated more because of the later cover up-- would certainly be a huge concern for the military and CIA, given Tillmans ability to get on camera. Thanks for that article Myra. Just posted it on high traffic sites.

Keith, et al,

What makes this matter deeply troubling to the ruling class is most powerfully summarized by Kevin Tillman here:

Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground.

Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started.

Or, if you prefer: What if they had a war and nobody came?

The Tillmans pose a great threat to the war criminals: If the Tillman's brothers- and sisters-in-arms get the message, they just might stay away in droves.

Imagine ... tens of thousands of active duty personnel and veterans marching through the streets of America, laying down their arms, telling the truth, vowing that they are done with the racket known as war ...

Charles