Deep Politics Forum

Jim Hargrove Wrote:John has made a number of major revisions and additions to the Harvey and Lee Depart the TSBD page of our website. My favorite new material, which actually comes after the "Harvey Oswald at DPD Headquarters" heading, is the following about Roger Craig.

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On April 1, 1964 Commission attorney David Belin took testimony from Roger Craig. Craig told the Commission that he saw (LEE) Oswald, wearing a white t-shirt, leave Dealey Plaza in a Nash Rambler station wagon. Belin showed Craig two sets of clothing for identification, each in a separate cardboard box. After Craig identified Oswald's clothing, Belin declined to make Craig's identification part of the Commission's record.

Roger Craig thought that Belin was uninterested in his testimony and said, "He acted like the quicker he got it over with the better." In his autobiography,When They Kill a President, Craig wrote that David Belin changed his testimony 14 times. Craig told the Commission the license plates on the Rambler wereNOT the same color as Texas plates, but the Commission omitted the word "NOT" and made it appear as though they were the same color as Texas plates. Craig said the Rambler station wagon was light green but the Commission changed the color to a white station wagon.........

.......................
Roger Craig was perhaps the most important witnesses to the events that occurred in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963. When Craig identified the man in the Dallas Police station (HARVEY Oswald) as the man who he saw enter the Nash Rambler station wagon (LEE Oswald), Craig was very close to exposing HARVEY and LEE, and thereby exposing the assassination of President Kennedy as a conspiracy.

THE FATE OF ROGER CRAIG

Roger Craig never changed his account of what he witnessed and experienced on Friday, November 22, 1963. For the rest of his life he remained convinced that the man who got into the Nash Rambler station wagon was Lee Harvey Oswald. But Craig's testimony was overlooked, because it threatened to expose the two Oswalds.

..............................

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Anyone interested in reading the entire, revised page can CLICK HERE. (You may have to hit the "refresh" button on your browser if you've visited the page in the past few days.)

[URL="http://jfk.education/images/RogerCraig23Nov1963.jpg"]
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc..._0425a.htm[/URL]

Quote:[URL="http://http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/craig.htm"]
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/craig.htm[/URL]

The testimony of Roger D. Craig was taken at 2:35 p.m., on April 1, 1964,
........
Mr. BELIN - You say that he first struck you that way. Do you now think that he was a Negro?
Mr. CRAIG - Well, I don't---I didn't get a real good look at him. But my first glance at him---I was more interested in the man coming down the hill---but my first glance at him, he struck me as a Negro.
Mr. BELIN - Is that what your opinion is today?
Mr. CRAIG - Well, I---I couldn't say, because I didn't get a good enough look.
Mr. BELIN - What kind and what color station wagon was it?
Mr. CRAIG - It was light colored--almost--uh--it looked white to me.
Mr. BELIN - What model or make was it?
Mr. CRAIG - I thought it was a Nash.
Mr. BELIN - Why would you think it was a Nash?
Mr. CRAIG - Because it had a built-in luggage rack on 'the top. And--uh--at the time, this was the only type car I could fit with that type luggage rack.
Mr. BELIN - A Nash Rambler-is that what you're referring to?
Mr. CRAIG - Yes; with a rack on the the back portion of the car, you know............
..............
Mr. CRAIG - Captain Fritz then asked him about the---uh---he said, "What about this station wagon?"
And the suspect interrupted him and said, "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine"---I believe is what he said...........

Quote:[URL="http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/paine_r1.htm"]
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/paine_r1.htm
[/URL]
Testimony Of Ruth Hyde Paine.........
Mr. JENNER - Describe your automobile, will you please?
Mrs. PAINE - It is a 1955 Chevrolet station wagon, green, needing paint, which we bought secondhand. It is in my name. ....

Quote:http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.bac...g.bio.html
When They Kill A President by Roger Craig - Copyright © 1971
.......As we were scanning the curb I heard a shrill whistle coming from the north side of Elm Street. I turned and saw a white male in his twenties running down the grassy knoll from the direction of the Texas School Book Depository Building. A light green Rambler station wagon was coming slowly west on Elm Street. The driver of the station wagon was a husky looking Latin, with dark wavy hair, wearing a tan wind-breaker type jacket. ....
..........
Fritz and I entered his private office together. He told Oswald, "This man (pointing to me) saw you leave." At which time the suspect replied, "I told you people I did." Fritz, apparently trying to console Oswald, said, "Take it easy, son--we're just trying to find out what happened." Fritz then said, "What about the car?" Oswald replied, leaning forward on Fritz' desk, "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine--don't try to drag her into this." Sitting back in his chair, Oswald said very disgustedly and very low, "Everybody will know who I am now."
....................
I first saw my testimony in January of 1968 when I looked at the 26 volumes which belonged to Penn Jones. My alleged statement was included. The following are some of the changes in my testimony:
............

* I said the Rambler station wagon was light green. The Warren Commission: Changed to a white station wagon; .....


.......Fritz then said, "Now take it easy, son, we're just trying to find out what happened", and then (to Oswald), "What about the car?" to which Oswald replied, "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine. Don't try to drag her into this." Fritz said car--station wagon was not mentioned by anyone but Oswald. ..........

So "Mr. Integrity," Roger Craig, is actually undeserving of John Armstrong's unqualified praise. Far more interesting, it would seem, is this.:

Quote:...............
Mr. BELIN - Anything else in connection with the assassination that you think might be important that we haven't discussed here?
Mr. CRAIG - No; except--uh--except for the fact that it came out later that Mrs. Paine does own a station wagon and--uh--it has a luggage rack on top. And this came out, of course, later, after I got back to the office. I didn't know about this. Buddy Walthers brought it up. I believe they went by the house and the car was parked in the driveway.
................

Mr. WALTHERS. Yes; and I took our officer, Harry Weatherford, and we met Officer Adamcik that works for the city and Officer Rose and another one of their officers, but I don't recall his name right now--at this address in Irving and when we went to the door, what turned out to be Mrs. Paine just as soon as we stepped on the porch, she said, "Come on in, we've been expecting you, and we didn't have any trouble at all--we just went right on in and stared asking her--at that time it didn't appear that her or Mrs. Oswald, or Marina, who came up carrying one of the babies in the living room--it didn't appear that they knew that Oswald had been arrested at all--the way they talked.
Mr. LIEBELER. How do you account for the fact that Mrs. Paine said, "Come on in, we've been expecting you?"
Mr. WALTHERS. I don't know--to this day, I don't know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Are you sure that's what she said?
Mr. WALTHERS. I know that's what she said.
Mr. LIEBELER. Mrs. Paine said that?
Mr. WALTHERS. Yes, sir; she said, "Come on in, we have been expecting you." ......
........
Mr. JENNER - I heard you mention the Texas School Depository warehouse Did you think the warehouse was at 411 Elm?
Mrs. PAINE - No. I had seen a sign on a building as I went along one of the limited access highways that leads into Dallas, saying "Texas School Book Depository Warehouse" and there was the only building that had registered on my consciousness as being Texas School Book Depository.
I was not aware, hadn't taken in the idea of there being two buildings and that there was one on Elm, though, I copied the address from the telephone book, and could well have made that notation in my mind but I didn't.
The first I realized that there was a building on Elm was when I heard on the television on the morning of the 22d of November that a shot had been fired from such a building.
[URL="http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/adamcik.htm"]
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/adamcik.htm[/URL]
............
Mr. ADAMCIK. I would say that it didn't take us over, it probably took us half an hour to get there. I would say it would be approximately 3 o'clock.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got there?
Mr. ADAMCIK. We waited a few minutes for the county officers to get there, and when they got there we came outside, and I went with one of the county officers or two of the county officers to the back door, and one of the county officers and Detectives Rose and Stovall went to the front door.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. ADAMCIK. We waited until Detectives Rose and Stovall and the county officers got inside the house, which was a period of time of maybe 3 or 4 minutes when they were invited in, and they came to the back door and opened it up and asked us to come in.
Mr. BELIN. Who asked you to come in?
Mr. ADAMCIK. Detectives Rose and Stovall, plus--because Mrs. Paine was in the house at the time standing next to them.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
................
Mr. ADAMCIK. Coming back, Mrs. Frazier, I believe it was, drove up to the house as I was coming back with--no, it was Mrs. Bill Randle. She (Mrs. Randle) was a neighbor there and she was driving up to the house, so I asked her whether she knew anything about what had happened, and whether she had seen Lee Oswald, and she did tell me that Lee Oswald rode to work with her brother, which is Wesley Frazier, who was staying with her, and he rode to work with him that morning. She told me that she saw--she was up early in the morning and was drinking coffee, and saw Lee Harvey Oswald go across the front yard, across the yard carrying like a long package wrapped in something, carrying it from the Paine house to Wesley's car.
Mr. BELIN. Did she say how he was carrying the package?
Mr. ADAMCIK. No; she didn't. I think we got an affidavit. In fact, I know we did, but I didn't take it.
Mr. BELIN. Did she say about how long the package was?
Mr. ADAMCIK. No; she said it was long and wrapped in a paper or a box. That is all I remember her saying.
[URL="http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/frazierb1.htm"]
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimo...zierb1.htm[/URL]
the testimony of Buell Wesley Frazier,................
Mr. BALL - Did you know Mrs. Paine, Ruth Paine?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I didn't until all this had happened because I will be frank with you, people around there, I say, they just don't make friends very easy. I say you can have somebody living three doors from you and you can live a couple of years and you still might not know the name.....

So who are the intended readership of John Armstrong and Jim Hargrove? It must be much easier and more interesting for readers who simply take them at their word and read on.

Tom...

I'll have more time for this tonight, but from your WC testimony excerpt, it sounds as if Craig is referring to Oswald as a "Negro," and not the driver. This is very misleading. Here's what Craig said just a few seconds earlier.


From When They Kill a President, by Roger Craig:

I first saw my testimony in January of 1968 when I looked at the 26 volumes which belonged to Penn Jones. My alleged statement was included. The following are some of the changes in my testimony:

• Arnold Rowland told me that he saw two men on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository 15 minutes before the President arrived: one was a Negro, who was pacing back and forth by the southwestwindow. The other was a white man in the southeast corner, with a rifle equipped with a scope, and that a few minutes later he looked back and only the white man was there. In the Warren Commission: Both werewhite, both were pacing in front of the southwest corner and when Rowland looked back, both were gone;
  
  
  
• I said the Rambler station wagon was light green. The Warren Commission: Changed to a white station wagon;
  
  
  
• I said the driver of the Station Wagon had on a tan jacket. The Warren Commission: A white jacket;
  
  
  
• I said the license plates on the Rambler were not the same color as Texas plates. The Warren Commission: Omitted the notomitted but one word, an important one, so that it appeared that the license plates were the same color as Texas plates;
  
  
  
• I said that I got a good look at the driver of the Rambler. The Warren Commission: I did not get a good look at the Rambler. (In Captain Fritzs office) I had said that Fritz had said to Oswald, "This man saw you leave" (indicating me). Oswald said, "I told you people I did." Fritz then said, "Now take it easy, son, were just trying to find out what happened", and then (to Oswald), "What about the car?" to which Oswald replied, "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine. Dont try to drag her into this." Fritz said carstation wagon was not mentioned by anyone but Oswald. (I had told Fritz over the telephone that I saw a man get into a station wagon, before I went to the Dallas Police Department and I had also described the man. This is when Fritz asked me to come there.) Oswald then said, "Everybody will know who I am now;" the Warren Commission: Stated that the last statement by Oswald was made in a dramatic tone. This was not so. The Warren Commission also printed, "NOW everybody will know who I am", transposing the now. Oswalds tone and attitude was one of disappointment. If someone were attempting to conceal his identity as Deputy and he was found out, exposedhis cover blown, his reaction would be dismay and disappointment. This was Oswalds tone and attitudedisappointment at being exposed!
  

Thanks for the detailed replies. I'll try to go through more of it tonight. -- Jim

Tom, the timing mentioned by the daughter in connection with the photos is interesting. She said the TSBD photos were taken about an hour after the shooting, (How can Oswald be in that bus in the picture if it's at that time? How did he get a pic of Cecil Water's bus after Oswald was arrested? How long does Waters just keep driving his portion of the crime scene around Dallas, especially after being boarded by police?) but to my recollection, Oswald's arrest at the Theatre (and the photos taken there by Reed) took place shortly before that. Again, how is Reed getting around so quickly?

Jim,

Here is the report of the initial witness statement of Roger Craig, who you have John Armstrong describing as "never changed his account". My point is, if you have to whitewash Craig as Armstrong has done, why refer to him at all? Quoting Craig is not an indication of the strength of your claims or analysis. Craig is controversial to the point of dubious, and John Armstrong is telling his readers the exact opposite. Craig's 1975 autopsy reports a blood alcohol level of 0.3 and an empty stomach. Which is more likely, an elaborate scheme that included injecting Craig with alcohol and pumping his stomach or making him vomit repeatedly, or waiting out his digestive processes and then rigging the shooting to make it look self-inflicted, or Craig actually committing suicide in a drunken and drugged stupor?

This is presented as part of Craig's autopsy report (CASE NO. 1019-75-0530) and was posted on another forum by Bernice Moore.:

Quote:..........
TOXICOLOGY:
Blood: Alcohol - 0.300 ETOH.
Valium - 0.05 mg Diazepam.
0.06 mg. Desmethyldiazepam.
........
GASTROINTESTINAL SYSTEM: The esophagus, small and large bowel are
unremarkable. A partial gastrectomy has been performed in the past.
The stomach is empty. The appendix is absent. .....

Quote:http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index....6&p=149896 Xxx Xxxx, on Jun 13 2008, 05:26 PM, said:
My immediate response was to leave the comments on the web page. I don't take kindly to being threatened. However, as several people have pointed out, the woman is clearly disturbed and we should not take advantage of this.

Quote:

Email from Roger Craig's daughter:

There are a few items in your article about Roger Craig you just might want to correct for the sake of accuracy and truth in reporting. i) His marriage didn't end due to repeated harassment or threats - unless you count his repeated threats to end his own life. ii) The man was disturbed. As his daughter I would place money on the fact that he suffered from either Borderline Personality Disorder or Bi-polar depression. Those last two attempts on his life? The husband of the woman he was fooling around with. Trust me, I met her AND her daughters before the bastard killed himself. The husband met him at the door with that shoulder shot.

Articles like yours only serve to continue the myth. My father was a disturbed man. I'm not disputing that what he thought he saw was something different than what was reported. But let's face it, my dad didn't know a Mauser from a whatever. He was a Wisconsin farmboy who joined the army illegally, and was released from duty because he kept injuring himself - I note you don't mention all the self-inflicted scars from his tour of duty. Furthermore, it is EXACTLY this kind of dramatic license that killed my father. It fed his disease. It fed his paranoia. And in the end, it contributed to his self-destruction. You should be ashamed of yourself for perpetuating this garbage.

I have now removed all references to Craig's daughter on my webpage on Roger Craig. As you can from above, I was only doing what I was asked. You just cannot please some people.

My point about the driver was that Craig described that person as negro, latin, and a white man. IMO, presenting Craig at all is worse than not mentioning him, and presenting him as "never changed his account," is obnoxious or just irresponsible. There is enough of a pre WC testimony record (two Nov., 1963 FBI reports) to make it irrelevant, (in the examples of inconsistency I have presented) if Craig claimed his WC testimony was altered. Craig does not list his contradiction of whether Fritz only said "car" to Oswald, and not "station wagon," before Oswald said it.
[URL="http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/pdf/WH24_CE_1993.pdf"]
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/j...E_1993.pdf[/URL]

Roger Craig's credibility has been debated on many forums over the years. As I've stated before, like most people thrust into a situation like that, Craig may have exaggerated things over the years. However, his critics ignore the fact, as Jim showed, that Craig (like several other witnesses) claimed that his testimony had been recorded inaccurately.

Given the track record of the FBI, Warren Commission and Dallas Police, I think we can attribute almost all of Craig's "changing" testimony to their dishonesty, and the general nature of the cover up. Certainly, someone strongly resembling Oswald was seen entering a Rambler after the assassination, as all those disparate witnesses attested to. Craig was surely right about that, and the photo in Jesse Curry's book verified that he had indeed been inside the room where Oswald was being interrogated.

I've read those communications from Craig's daughter. His nephew, Jerry, disputes that and remains a strong supporter of his uncle. In many of these cases, we find that close family members buy into the official lies as much as the rest of the sheeple do. Look at Robert Oswald.

Whatever personal demons Craig had, there is no denying the price he paid for being the only Dallas law enforcement officer to do his job that day. His career was ruined, there were multiple attempts on his life, and his car was blown up. If he really killed himself, he was driven to it. Like all of us, he was flawed, but in my mind he remains a hero.

Drew Phipps Wrote:Tom, the timing mentioned by the daughter in connection with the photos is interesting. She said the TSBD photos were taken about an hour after the shooting, (How can Oswald be in that bus in the picture if it's at that time? How did he get a pic of Cecil Water's bus after Oswald was arrested? How long does Waters just keep driving his portion of the crime scene around Dallas, especially after being boarded by police?) but to my recollection, Oswald's arrest at the Theatre (and the photos taken there by Reed) took place shortly before that. Again, how is Reed getting around so quickly?

Drew,

It wasn't the daughter who is alleged to have stated it, (one hour after, etc.) it was SL Reed himself.:

[URL="http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/R%20Disk/Reed%20Stuart%20L/Item%2004.pdf"]http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/R%20Disk/Reed%20Stuart%20L/Item%2004.pdf

[/URL]

Quote:http://harveyandlee.net/November/November_22.htm
.....HARVEY OSWALD, WITH THE TIPPIT MURDER WEAPON, IS ARRESTED
......NOTE: Stuart Reed took all of these photos, which sequentially followed Oswald's movements, within 1 1/2 hours.
........The FBI told the WC that a government executive (Reed), answering to the military, took the photos. This seemed to satisfy the WC, and Reed dropped out of sight without ever seeing his photos. ......

Gary Schoener exchanged letters with Stuart L Reed in 1968, but not much detail emerges.:
SL Reed to Schoener : http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%...m%2001.pdf
Schoen's reply: http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%...m%2002.pdf

My point is that I don't know what happened, you don't know, and Armstrong does not know, and Jim Hargrove is speculating, (Reed missing, never saw photos he took, etc.). In Reed's handwritten letter, he is not missing and is familiar with the images on the slides he took.

I do not find that the FBI or WC represented the SL Reed bus photos specifically, but including such a photo as an exhibit infers that it was an image of McWatter's bus.

Quote:[PDF]Pages 101-150.pdf

jfk.hood.edu/Collection/White%20Materials/.../Pages%20101-150.pdf

Oct 9, 1992 - FBI report of November 26, 1963, page 5 prepared by O'Neill and Sibert. 2 ..... taken by Stuart L. Reed. 144a. FBI Exhibit D84-1 through D84-3.

[PDF]Item 03.pdf

jfk.hood.edu/.../FBI/FBI%20Exhibits%20List%20Federal%20Register/Ite...

Oswald or his wife, Marina. FBI exhibit. No. Dcacript ion. Photos and pictures. Postcards. ...... D84. Three colored enlargements made from 35 nrm trans- parencies taken by Stuart L. Reed

There is a separate WC exhibit that is of McWatters bus, empty and in the transit co. yard.:
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/j..._0497b.htm

Quote:Robert Charles-Dunne Posted 07 September 2006
......
Mark:

Mull on the connective tissue of what follows below re: Powell and Oswald, and tell me if you think a linear tale emerges....

If you take a close look at the accompanying photo [sorry for the quality, but I'm barely competent with a scanner], you'll see two red circles. The top one identifies the building in which Powell worked, the Rio Grande Building on Elm St. where the 112th MIG was situated.

The bottom circles shows a bus, purportedly driven by Cecil McWatters with one LHO aboard. For those who have always wondered why LHO walked east to catch a westbound bus, it should be noted that LHO reputedly boarded that bus within a block of the 112th MIG offices. This could be written off as entirely coincidental, were it not for the 112th MIG's apparent prior knowledge of LHO/AJH, as stipulated by Col. Robert Jones in his HSCA testimony. Draw whatever inferences you choose.

More to the point, however, is that the photo below was one of two reproduced in Robert Groden's "The Search For LHO," both of which depict that same bus making its way along Elm St. toward the TSBD.

Both photos were taken by Stuart L. Reed, who also snapped at least one shot of the TSBD and a number of shots of LHO being arrested and escorted outside the Texas Theatre [also contained in "TSFLHO"].

The quality of Reed's photos is remarkably good, suggesting that if he was an amateur photographer, he was quite gifted. More pertinent, however, is that it seems Stuart Reed snapped the TSBD not long after the assassination, as well as Oswald's getaway bus with Oswald on it, and the subsequent arrest. Had Reed been a news photographer in Dallas, one could easily attribute his ubiquitous omnipresence at all the hotspots that day to his connections with local police and members of the press. Yet, it appears Reed had no such source of immediate inside information. .....[URL="http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16712&p=211266"]
[/URL]

Here is my own speculation when I knew very little about SL Reed and his photos and was accepting of a line that
Robert Groden may have embellished, as the WC did by including FBI Exhibit D84, three Reed images selected by the FBI. :

Quote: Tom Scully posted 07 November 2010 - 10:27 PM

Consider that it is likely that the FBI took custody of Stuart Reed's printed photos from the Dallas developing lab while Reed was on a boat sailing to Panama. We have only the FBI's version of what photos were taken by Reed and developed by the lab.

Any exculpatory photos beneficial to the accused, Oswald, could be disappeared without Reed or anyone else noticing. Any photos deemed too coincidental, especially considering that Stuart Reed is presented as the photographer of a timely shot of the sixth floor window, two shots of the bus that Oswald "made his escape" in, and of his arrest at the Texas Theater, could also have been disappeared if their existence was determined to be even more unbelievable than the photos which were attributed by the FBI to Stuart Reed. .......

And we're going this deep into this because I objected to the "missing" description posted by Jim. I have no budget for research, no inheritance. no independent wealth. John Armstrong does, but he also has an agenda. John Woods is the real deal, so why hasn't Armstrong interviewed him about the SL Reed photos?
Is the effect of John Armstrong's book and these recent presentations on the site maintained by Jim Hargrove, to influence readers to stop looking, because Armstrong explains it all? I am not saying that this effect is Armstrong's intent, and David Josephs is certainly actively researching, but through an Armstrong
fashioned prism.

I know what there is little basis for conclusion, but I don't know what happened, and I think you can't know either if you confine yourself through pet theory or a strong, preconceived notion.
[PDF]Woods John R II 13 B.. - The Harold Weisberg Archive

jfk.hood.edu/.../Woods%20John%20R%20II%2013%20Book%20Revie...

Photographic Evidence Relating to the Assassination of President John. F. Kennedy. John Woods, 11. (P.O.. Box 31042 Aurora, Co. 80041. Limited to 50 copies. ....The 687 page volume is in the format of a loose-leaf binder.....

Back Channels: A Quarterly Publication of Historical and ...

https://books.google.com/books?id=wyUhAQAAMAAJ

Quote:John Woods
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[TD="class: postinfo"]January 07, 2009, 12:04:08 AM[/TD]
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[TD="class: post, width: 85%"]Robin,

decades ago, i made a inquiry to purchased the reed slides. his son had somewhat
custody of his dad's slides but the asking price was beyond what i could afford. his
dad felt that all of his slides were not return to him and some slides were mis-labeled
as MacCammon or Reiland.

johnw[/TD]
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[TD="class: post, width: 85%"]Woods (JFK Assassination Photographs) page 574


"In 1976, while working with the Reed photographs, two key figures were of interest. The first figure was later identified as another police officer (21) and dismissed. However, as earlier mention the second individual appears to be Ruby. It was towards the end of 1991, I was supplied with an article written by Earl Golz (22). The story was of a witness that came forth to state that he saw Jack Ruby at the theatre. After 15 years of remaining silent George J. Applin, Jr., told his story.

According to Applin, he believes that Ruby was the man sitting in the back row seat as the Dallas police were arresting Oswald inside the theatre. Golz quoted Applin that: 'Ruby was sitting down, just watching them. And when Oswald pulled the gun and snapped it at his (a policeman's) heand and missed and the darn thing wouldn't fire, that's when I tapped him (Ruby) on the should and told him he had better moves because thos guns were waving around. He just turned around and looked at me. Then he turned around and started watching them (23).'

It was nout until two days later that Applin realized that it was Ruby at the theatre when Oswald was murdered. During his testimony before the Warren Commission some four months later Applin declines to testify that he saw Ruby. Not once but twice he was asked by Joseph A. Ball but decline in fear of his life."

As so goes the story.

johnw[/TD]
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Quote from: John Woods on July 04, 2010, 09:46:43 PM
hi gerry,

The MacCammon series includes the plaza after the assassination, the area of
the Tippit shooting and the arrest of Oswald at the Texas Theater including the
image you posted above.

Per my conversations with S.L. Reed's son, his father believes that one of the
images label as MacCammon was one of his images.

Shortly afterwards MacCammon left Dallas.

Per a disagreement with this forum, I no longer post images. Sorry.

johnw

ps. I would be interest in seeing a image of MacCammon.

I apologize for the nature of these sources, but they are unique and relevant in this response to Drew.

Tom....

I'm not quite sure what your points are for at least some of the cut-and-paste the material you have posted here. Nothing you have put forth explains how a guy living in the Canal Zone can just happen to make all those remarkable shots around the assassination of JFK. Your hard work attempting to discredit Roger Craig is noted, and is a VERY old story, but I believe Don Jeffries made a more succinct rebuttal to it above than I can offer.

What puzzles me most are some of your pastes of well-known information from obscure sources that makes it all seem so mysterious, when in reality it is covered much better elsewhere. I'll take just one example, the last one from your post above. There, you post some excerpts typed by a John Woods about the George Applin sighting of Jack Ruby at the Texas Theater.

Although neither you nor the original poster bothered to make a real citation, you are both referring to the March 11, 1979 Earl Golz article that appeared on page 32A of the Dallas Morning News. This has been covered quite extensively in the JFK literature, most recently (that I'm aware of anyway) by Jim Douglass in JFK and the Unspeakable. Here's how Jim wrote it up:



You seem intent on tossing a few insults our way, and so I'm curious. Do you believe there was a conspiracy to kill JFK? Do you think the WC essentially got it right?

Tom Scully Wrote:My point about the driver was that Craig described that person as negro, latin, and a white man. IMO, presenting Craig at all is worse than not mentioning him, and presenting him as "never changed his account," is obnoxious or just irresponsible.

In my opinion it is irresponsible to ignore the multiple other witnesses who confirmed the event.


I don't understand you Tom. You don't seem to be practicing sound analysis. We know from the 4 other witnesses who saw Oswald get in to the station wagon that it happened. Since Oswald was a passenger then someone had to be driving whether he was white, latin, or negro. Plus, as Don said, the FBI was notorious for altering statements in order to confuse or discredit.


Craig was pretty firm on what he saw. And he suffered the result that many other such credible witnesses did.

My reply to Hargroves and Armstrong,

http://www.reopenkennedycase.org/apps/fo...-the-tsbd-

Cheers!

A fellow on Greg Parker's board has posted a very long critique (see previous post on this forum) of the new John Armstrong article that I recently put upon my website at this address:






The critique is long on insults and sarcasm and short on facts, but it made me think about the original reason John wrote the new article.



He and I were talking on the phone about how some researchers have begun to think that the bus and taxi ride, as described by the Warren Commission, never happened. John said that he had always thought that the evidence was overwhelming that the jailed Oswald had previously ridden the bus and taxi, including Oswald's own statements about the bus, and then the bus and taxi, heard by numerous witnesses in police headquarters. John also felt that no one on the scene at Dallas police headquarters within hours of the assassination was in a position to put in motion such an elaborate plot to invent the bus and taxi scenario.



And so his real motivation in writing the new article was to examine the evidence for the bus and taxi ride. I must say, it is a weird feeling to be in the position of defending a Warren Commission conclusion, but on this one point, at least, I think they got it right, at least for the fellow eventually killed by Jack Ruby.



Some knowledgeable members of this forum have expressed skepticism about the bus and taxi ride. Has anyone had a change of mind after reading the new piece?