Deep Politics Forum

Sorry to aggie-ravate you.

Keith Millea Wrote:Oh Great!

Maybe Mr.Lifton would like to come over here and fight this one for himself.......

:zzzz:

Kindly keep the arguments at the EF there.
I can't believe you began a thread for this.
Dawn

James H. Fetzer Wrote:Monk,

Send me a link, if you don't mind, and I'll take a look. Thanks for posting.

Jim

QUOTE=Greg Burnham;35401]

James H. Fetzer Wrote:Well, life is short and I am spending more of it that [sic] I would prefer on one or another web site. I disputed DiEugenio's claims on the original MASTERMIND thread, so I don't mind that Lifton has proven I was right. It may put you to sleep, but some of us care about the difference between truth and fiction.

Jim,

Although I agree with what you just wrote, in general terms, and in "person specific terms" as well, regarding Jim D, -- still, Robert Charles-Dunn has very eloquently pointed out several flaws in Lifton's reasoning regarding the "blackmail-vulnerability" of JFK. I think RCD's reasoning is much more compelling than is DSL's in this regard.

[/QUOTE]

RCD won that argument hands down and did so without resort to Ad homs. Lifton is clearly not familiar with RCD's expertise in the JFK assassination.

Dawn

Dawn Meredith Wrote:

Keith Millea Wrote:Oh Great!

Maybe Mr.Lifton would like to come over here and fight this one for himself.......

:zzzz:

Kindly keep the arguments at the EF there.
I can't believe you began a thread for this.
Dawn

Dawn:

Why did you quote me?I didn't start this thread.I did give a cynical opinion about what I see as another pissing match being foisted upon us by our beloved JFK brain trust. :monkeypiss:

Charles Drago Wrote:Further: We are at war with the killers of JFK, and it is my Constitutionally protected contention that Nelson is their witting agent.

With respect to the call for neutrality on this subject I wanted to add that after pondering why major researchers would deliberately skew LBJ as the "Mastermind" of the Kennedy Assassination it dawned on me that the reason was more simply explained than I considered. A book with a title claiming LBJ to be an accomplice used as a useful inside tool but wasn't the actual plotter would not be as good a sell as one claiming he was the organizing "Mastermind". Knowing the Assassination conspiracy has unfolded in layers of limited hang-out fall-guys like the mob, Castro, exiles, right-wingers, etc those claiming LBJ was the mastermind are simply exploiting the maximum sell value of boosting the claim as it would have been anyway in the next offering of limited hang-out. Somewhat dishonest but functional in drawing maximum attention to a valid member or layer of the actual conspiracy that had been previously shielded from exposure by the need to protect the honor of a US office. Myself I find it somewhat distasteful because it creates a carnival-like aspect to the Assassination landscape were researchers are trying to draw readers into their particular conspiracy theory sideshow. While patrons will learn real things in the Lyndon Baines wax museum they won't be clued or necessarily inspired to investigate the off-limits tents and their contents.



.

Since LBJ as president was the only one who could possibly guarantee that no one would be prosecuted for the assassination of JFK--where his pivotal role has been confirmed by Jack Ruby, Madeleine Duncan Brown, Billie Sol Estes, Barr McClellan, and E. Howard Hunt, not to mention copious circumstantial evidence--those who are doing the most to undermine the truth about JFK are not those who finger Lyndon for his role as "mastermind" but those who are willing to trash and abuse those who are doing the most to expose it. I find the insinuation of Keith Millea and (of course) Albert Doyle perfect examples of those who are willing to beg the question by taking for granted that the evidence is wrong and extend their irresponsible behavior by smearing a brilliant book that, I am willing to bet, probability neither of them has even read. If James Douglass, JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE, explained how JFK had antagonized the most powerful forces in this country, as he had, then Phil Nelson, LBJ: THE MASTERMIND OF JFK'S ASSASSINATION, explains what they did about it. Only someone of the warped character and consuming ambition of Lyndon Johnson, who was in the ideal position to make it happen (with a little help from his friend, J. Edgar), would have allowed this to happen. And I find it disgraceful that members of the DEEP POLITICS FORM are continuing to undermine our best-founded knowledge and understanding of what actually happened to JFK! I am not going to stand in silence while the less competent impugn the more and the more gullible trash the less.

Albert Doyle Wrote:

Charles Drago Wrote:Further: We are at war with the killers of JFK, and it is my Constitutionally protected contention that Nelson is their witting agent.

With respect to the call for neutrality on this subject I wanted to add that after pondering why major researchers would deliberately skew LBJ as the "Mastermind" of the Kennedy Assassination it dawned on me that the reason was more simply explained than I considered. A book with a title claiming LBJ to be an accomplice used as a useful inside tool but wasn't the actual plotter would not be as good a sell as one claiming he was the organizing "Mastermind". Knowing the Assassination conspiracy has unfolded in layers of limited hang-out fall-guys like the mob, Castro, exiles, right-wingers, etc those claiming LBJ was the mastermind are simply exploiting the maximum sell value of boosting the claim as it would have been anyway in the next offering of limited hang-out. Somewhat dishonest but functional in drawing maximum attention to a valid member or layer of the actual conspiracy that had been previously shielded from exposure by the need to protect the honor of a US office. Myself I find it somewhat distasteful because it creates a carnival-like aspect to the Assassination landscape were researchers are trying to draw readers into their particular conspiracy theory sideshow. While patrons will learn real things in the Lyndon Baines wax museum they won't be clued or necessarily inspired to investigate the off-limits tents and their contents.



.

Albert Doyle Wrote:[quote=Charles Drago]
Further: We are at war with the killers of JFK, and it is my Constitutionally protected contention that Nelson is their witting agent.

Albert Doyle Wrote:With respect to the call for neutrality on this subject I wanted to add that after pondering why major researchers would deliberately skew LBJ as the "Mastermind" of the Kennedy Assassination it dawned on me that the reason was more simply explained than I considered. A book with a title claiming LBJ to be an accomplice used as a useful inside tool but wasn't the actual plotter would not be as good a sell as one claiming he was the organizing "Mastermind".

Albert,

It's not that I discount your scenario out-of-hand. But even if this best-case interpretation is on the money, what does it tell us about the ethics of a writer who would obscure the truth and, in the process, contribute to the cover-up just to increase book sales?

What does it tell us about the deep political sophistication of a writer who cannot understand the threats to truth and justice inherent in making such a move?

Albert Doyle Wrote:Knowing the Assassination conspiracy has unfolded in layers of limited hang-out fall-guys like the mob, Castro, exiles, right-wingers, etc those claiming LBJ was the mastermind are simply exploiting the maximum sell value of boosting the claim as it would have been anyway in the next offering of limited hang-out.

"Exploiting" -- I couldn't have written it better.

I'd add that it's exploitation at a terrible cost to history.

Albert Doyle Wrote:Somewhat dishonest

As in somewhat pregnant?

Albert Doyle Wrote:but functional in drawing maximum attention to a valid member or layer of the actual conspiracy that had been previously shielded from exposure by the need to protect the honor of a US office.

Perhaps, but only if there were no better ways.

Albert Doyle Wrote:Myself I find it somewhat distasteful because it creates a carnival-like aspect to the Assassination landscape were researchers are trying to draw readers into their particular conspiracy theory sideshow. While patrons will learn real things in the Lyndon Baines wax museum they won't be clued or necessarily inspired to investigate the off-limits tents and their contents.

As in somewhat dead?

The misidentification of LBJ as a Sponsor ... no, make that THE Sponsor ... of JFK's murder accomplishes nothing of value to the extended victims of the Dealey Plaza crossfire, even as it delivers immense value to the victimizers.

The LBJ as "mastermind" disinformation tells us, "Here end the searches for truth and justice for JFK."

Is that message acceptable to you under any circumstances?

Acceptable to any of us?

Yes or no?

Charles,

We've "been there, done that"! I am disappointed that you are continuing this
unwarranted assault on an honorable man who has done more research on this
topic (LBJ) than has anyone else in the world. He confirms and reinforces what
I have learned from Jack Ruby, Madeleine Duncan Brown (personally), Billy Sol
Estes, Barr McClellan, and E. Howard Hunt, among others. Those who discount
or otherwise disregard the essential evidence they provide with regard to the
character and conduct of Lyndon Baines Johnson are consigned to ignorance.
Believe what you will, but it you are looking for the truth, Nelson provides it.

Jim

Charles Drago Wrote:

Albert Doyle Wrote:[quote=Charles Drago]
Further: We are at war with the killers of JFK, and it is my Constitutionally protected contention that Nelson is their witting agent.

Albert Doyle Wrote:With respect to the call for neutrality on this subject I wanted to add that after pondering why major researchers would deliberately skew LBJ as the "Mastermind" of the Kennedy Assassination it dawned on me that the reason was more simply explained than I considered. A book with a title claiming LBJ to be an accomplice used as a useful inside tool but wasn't the actual plotter would not be as good a sell as one claiming he was the organizing "Mastermind".

Albert,

It's not that I discount your scenario out-of-hand. But even if this best-case interpretation is on the money, what does it tell us about the ethics of a writer who would obscure the truth and, in the process, contribute to the cover-up just to increase book sales?

What does it tell us about the deep political sophistication of a writer who cannot understand the threats to truth and justice inherent in making such a move?




"Exploiting" -- I couldn't have written it better.

I'd add that it's exploitation at a terrible cost to history.




As in somewhat pregnant?

Albert Doyle Wrote:but functional in drawing maximum attention to a valid member or layer of the actual conspiracy that had been previously shielded from exposure by the need to protect the honor of a US office.

Perhaps, but only if there were no better ways.

Albert Doyle Wrote:Myself I find it somewhat distasteful because it creates a carnival-like aspect to the Assassination landscape were researchers are trying to draw readers into their particular conspiracy theory sideshow. While patrons will learn real things in the Lyndon Baines wax museum they won't be clued or necessarily inspired to investigate the off-limits tents and their contents.

As in somewhat dead?

The misidentification of LBJ as a Sponsor ... no, make that THE Sponsor ... of JFK's murder accomplishes nothing of value to the extended victims of the Dealey Plaza crossfire, even as it delivers immense value to the victimizers.

The LBJ as "mastermind" disinformation tells us, "Here end the searches for truth and justice for JFK."

Is that message acceptable to you under any circumstances?

Acceptable to any of us?

Yes or no?

James H. Fetzer Wrote:If James Douglass, JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE, explained how JFK had antagonized the most powerful forces in this country, as he had, then Phil Nelson, LBJ: THE MASTERMIND OF JFK'S ASSASSINATION, explains what they did about it. Only someone of the warped character and consuming ambition of Lyndon Johnson, who was in the ideal position to make it happen (with a little help from his friend, J. Edgar), would have allowed this to happen.

I'm not sure the author of the above realizes he has just destroyed any claim to LBJ being a "Mastermind" by his own words and logic...



.

James H. Fetzer Wrote:Charles,

We've "been there, done that"! I am disappointed that you are continuing this
... assault on [a] man who has done more research on this topic (LBJ) than has anyone else in the world.

Don't worry, Jim. I for one will not sing another chorus of "It's the Same Old Song and Dance" (Sinatra, from the Capitol years). Instead I'll do nothing in this post but find points of agreement with you. To begin:

1. Nelson likely has done more research on LBJ within the JFK assassination context than almost anyone else in the world. More is more.

James H. Fetzer Wrote:He confirms and reinforces what I have learned from Jack Ruby, Madeleine Duncan Brown (personally), Billy SolvEstes, Barr McClellan, and E. Howard Hunt[.]

2. I'm sure Nelson does confirm everything you've learned from the likes of Ruby, Duncan Brown, Estes, McClellan, and E. Howard Hunt. No argument from me. Everything he writes smacks of their respective enlightenment, sophistication, moral character, emotional well-being, and truthfulness.

I'd even go so far as to say that Hunt is Nelson's spiritual father and role model. The old spook would be proud of Sinjin's blood brother.

James H. Fetzer Wrote:Those who discount or otherwise disregard the essential evidence they provide with regard to the character and conduct of Lyndon Baines Johnson are consigned to ignorance.

3. AGREED -- beyond all doubt and to the degree of metaphysical certitude. What they've taught me about the true role of LBJ in the SPONSOR/FACILITATOR-FALSE SPONSOR/MECHANIC assassination model cannot be overvalued.

James H. Fetzer Wrote:Believe what you will, but it you are looking for the truth, Nelson provides it.

4. AGREED! And I would be remiss if I did not credit Professor Peter Dale Scott for all he has taught me about how to recognize the appropriate opportunities to apply negative templates and the methods and values of their applications.


And from one of your earlier posts:

James H. Fetzer Wrote:Only someone of the warped character and consuming ambition of Lyndon Johnson, who was in the ideal position to make it happen ... would have allowed this to happen.

5. SPOT-ON! Sorta like how Allen Glick allowed the Mob to skim the Stardust.