LR Trotter Wrote:I recently saw a video that shows a blemish on the signal light frame that indicates it being struck by a bullet. I don't recall the id of the video, but I have to wonder about the possibility of a ricochet bullet that struck JFK in the back. What I do believe, is watching Z Film slow motion does help understanding actions and reactions, but normal speed is needed to understand the timing of actions and reactions. But, if a ricochet and shallow wound, the final destination of the bullet is of course a concern. With the constant pain and treatments of JFK, a delayed to reaction to a shallow wound is quite possible, IMO. So to me, an earlier than reaction wounding of JFK is a reasonable assumption.

:attention:

Anthony DeFiore Wrote:IMHO, I think there were two shooters in the Dal Tex bldg and one on the County Building. One of the Dal Tex shooters hit JFK in the back at the same time as a shot entered his throat. As for the "second back wound", that could have come from the shooter on the County Bldg. I think the County Bldg shooter fired three shots at the limo. He hit JFK in the back (45), he hit Connally in the back and then he hit Connally in the wrist as Connally began to lay in his wife's lap.

I am open to the idea that the "shooters" from the Dal Tex building could have hit JFK twice in the back. One may have been deflected causing a fragment to enter his back in such a shallow manner. Perhaps the Dal Tex shooters were on the third or fourth floor of the building which may have caused the 45 degree angle?


I do not know if anyone has looked at JFK's back brace which may have been high enough on his back to slow the bullet into his back at such a superficial rate. I have always believed that the autopsy photo of his back showed two wounds that were later "drawn" out of the sketches done later.


Additionally, the angle into JFK's back at 45 may have been the bullet fired from the County Building as he lurched over towards Jackie Kennedy after Z225.


Just thinking....TD

Gordon Gray Wrote:

LR Trotter Wrote:I recently saw a video that shows a blemish on the signal light frame that indicates it being struck by a bullet. I don't recall the id of the video, but I have to wonder about the possibility of a ricochet bullet that struck JFK in the back. What I do believe, is watching Z Film slow motion does help understanding actions and reactions, but normal speed is needed to understand the timing of actions and reactions. But, if a ricochet and shallow wound, the final destination of the bullet is of course a concern. With the constant pain and treatments of JFK, a delayed to reaction to a shallow wound is quite possible, IMO. So to me, an earlier than reaction wounding of JFK is a reasonable assumption.

:attention:

If someone strikes you in the throat the normal reaction is to tuck your chin and bring your hands up in a reflexive action. The sensation is similar to choking. That is exactly what the president is doing initially. Then if someone were to subsequently strike you in the back between the shoulder blades, the reaction would be to arch away from the blow. The chin would go up and the elbows would splay. Again that is what the president does after he emerges from behind the sign. I don't believe the back wound occurred prior to the throat wound. Where is the this signal light located? is it in line with the Daltex building? That would be the most likely origin of any of the rear shots IMO.

LR Trotter Wrote:

Gordon Gray Wrote:

LR Trotter Wrote:I recently saw a video that shows a blemish on the signal light frame that indicates it being struck by a bullet. I don't recall the id of the video, but I have to wonder about the possibility of a ricochet bullet that struck JFK in the back. What I do believe, is watching Z Film slow motion does help understanding actions and reactions, but normal speed is needed to understand the timing of actions and reactions. But, if a ricochet and shallow wound, the final destination of the bullet is of course a concern. With the constant pain and treatments of JFK, a delayed to reaction to a shallow wound is quite possible, IMO. So to me, an earlier than reaction wounding of JFK is a reasonable assumption.

:attention:

If someone strikes you in the throat the normal reaction is to tuck your chin and bring your hands up in a reflexive action. The sensation is similar to choking. That is exactly what the president is doing initially. Then if someone were to subsequently strike you in the back between the shoulder blades, the reaction would be to arch away from the blow. The chin would go up and the elbows would splay. Again that is what the president does after he emerges from behind the sign. I don't believe the back wound occurred prior to the throat wound. Where is the this signal light located? is it in line with the Daltex building? That would be the most likely origin of any of the rear shots IMO.

The video implied a missed first shot by LHO that may have struck the Elm @ Houston signal light. But, I cannot argue with your response, and while a reaction delay from a shallow back wound is to me a possibility, I cannot imagine a delay reacting to the throat wound. I suppose my question is really what happened to the instrument that caused the shallow back wound. Depending on the location of a possible shooter in the Daltex building, I would think it is a possibility of being in line with a shot from there. Or, maybe a signal shot that was supposed to miss?

Gordon Gray Wrote:

Anthony DeFiore Wrote:IMHO, I think there were two shooters in the Dal Tex bldg and one on the County Building. One of the Dal Tex shooters hit JFK in the back at the same time as a shot entered his throat. As for the "second back wound", that could have come from the shooter on the County Bldg. I think the County Bldg shooter fired three shots at the limo. He hit JFK in the back (45), he hit Connally in the back and then he hit Connally in the wrist as Connally began to lay in his wife's lap.

I am open to the idea that the "shooters" from the Dal Tex building could have hit JFK twice in the back. One may have been deflected causing a fragment to enter his back in such a shallow manner. Perhaps the Dal Tex shooters were on the third or fourth floor of the building which may have caused the 45 degree angle?


I do not know if anyone has looked at JFK's back brace which may have been high enough on his back to slow the bullet into his back at such a superficial rate. I have always believed that the autopsy photo of his back showed two wounds that were later "drawn" out of the sketches done later.


Additionally, the angle into JFK's back at 45 may have been the bullet fired from the County Building as he lurched over towards Jackie Kennedy after Z225.


Just thinking....TD

Here is a view from the Daltex window. There appears to be nothing to obstruct a shot at the time the president seems to be hit initially on the Z film, unless the shooter was even more incompetent a shot than LHO. [ATTACH=CONFIG]4690[/ATTACH]A 45 degree angle would be too steep for the top of any of the buildings around the turn at Elm St. Keep in mind the angle from the 6th floor window at the point was less than half that steep. So the question remains, what would cause the shallow wound at a 45 degree angle, other than a deflection from the tree in front of the 6th floor window, and how could it have been deflected at the time the president is first hit? I have always thought that the wound in the throat was the result of a shot from the front. Pat Speer's theory that the shot that hit the president in the lower occiput exited from the throat, makes some sense to me, but it would have had to have happened much later than the first shot.

Phil Dragoo Wrote:http://www.mtgriffith.com/web_documents/backwound.htm

WHERE WAS PRESIDENT KENNEDY'S BACK WOUND? by Michael T. Griffith

Surely the entry was too low to exit the throat--

--and the throat was entry per Malcolm Perry et al--

--and the back wound did not transit.

If it's one finger joint deep, how accurate can the angle be determined--it's not as though it's Noguchi & Co. with long wire rods

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4693[/ATTACH]

Have you excluded West Depository; shallowness due to faulty suppressor baffles. . . .