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+--- Thread: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border - live (/showthread.php?tid=12884)
Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border - live - Paul Rigby - 19-07-2014
Ralf Anders Wrote:But I know a thing or two about Andriy Parubiy (see Wiki for some basics): The guy is a Nazi, he was most certainly involved in the false flag sniper shootings on Maidan (the defining moment of the crisis): http://orientalreview.org/2014/05/29/who-was-maidan-snipers-mastermind/ This is the most plausible summary of the case against Parubiy I have yet came across. If somebody knows more about the "Oriental Review", supposedly an independent journal from Moscow, I'd be glad for some thoughts on the journal's reliability). Parubiy was also involved in the Odessa massacre which was almost certainly a false flag operation as well (the separatists/federalists killing Maidanists before the massacre in the trade union building took place were most probably agents provocateurs who worked in collusion with the police, a view that is supported by the infamous red armbands that no-one in the Western MSM dares to mention). As the Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of the Ukraine Parubiy is NATO's go-to-guy in the Ukraine, leading the Ukrainian side in the Ukraine-NATO contact group in Brussels. Parubiy is a Nazi paramilitary, he is responsible for the military action in eastern Ukraine, he is probably a false flag expert. Parubiy is the man who makes things happen on the ground. If, and it is still a big if, this was a false flag operation it is highly probable that Parubiy was involved. To be sure, this is speculation from the "cui bono" and circumstantial evidence angle... (Written in a hurry in my second language.) Ralf
Spot on, Ralf! He's also a chap with a history of depression and/or mental illness, it appears.
Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border - live - Paul Rigby - 20-07-2014
Mechanism of Provocation
http://cassad-eng.livejournal.com/30000.html
Quote:From that which can be now said for sure.
1. The Malaysian "Boeing" was led into the DPR territory consciously, the course correction which led it into the war zone was clearly intentional. The machinations with the "Boeing" route are absolutely identical to a well-known provocation with a South-Korean "Boeing", which the americans led into the USSR airspace in 1983, after which it was shot down.
2. The "Boeing" was working only with Ukrainian dispatchers Kiev and Dnepropetrovsk ones, the offset of the corridor to the North of a typical route was organized there. There is no way Russia or the militia could direct it into the conflict zone.
3. The "Boeing" was accompanied by the 2 jets of the junta air force (there are discrepancies some sources write about a Su-25, others about Su-27) one of which was seen by the eyewitnesses near the crash site of the "Boeing" as it was retreating towards Debaltsevo. What happened to the 2nd junta airplane is unknown, the 2 observed parachutes in the vicinity of the "Boeing" crash site may well belong to the pilots of the junta air force. Somewhat earlier the unconfirmed messages about the shot down Su-25 and AN-26 arrived, but there are no significant confirmations for this. Strelkov didn't make any official announcements on this topic.
4. The Spanish dispatcher who carried out monitoring of the "Boeing" confirmed the fact of presence of the Ukrainian airplanes next to the "Boeing", and also the fact of an attack of the plane by the junta, which according to him was also confirmed by the Ukrainian military, who claimed that they know precisely who gave the order (from here the versions about Kolomoisky and Avakov originated). Actually, the fact of the presence of the Ukrainian jets next to "Boeing", the testimony of the Spanish dispatcher and the statement of the eyewitness of the "Boeing" catastrophe allows us to determine the guilty side authentically.
5. Prior to opening the "black boxes" it will be hard to determine how exactly was the "Boeing" shot down at this point the militia fighters found 8 out of 12. Among the versions, besides the most obvious attack by air-to-air missiles (which was mentioned by a number of American sources), there is a version of a collision between the "Boeing" and a junta airplane, and also the version sounded by the Russian media that the "Boeing" was confused with Putin's airplane. Also it is not clear what were the 3 explosions that were observed by the eyewitness.
6. Regarding the version that the airplanes were shot down from "Buk", then as the physics calculations show, even if the militia fighters brought the captured "Buk" into operational state (its current combat readiness and the tactical position are unknown), taught the squad and locked it into an air defense complex and deployed it in the area of Snezhnoye-Torez, then "Boeing" was supposed to fall on the territory of the Russian Federation. And after an attack from the Ukrainian "Buks" (which are many in the Donbass), the "Boeing" would fall exactly on the DPR territory.
Overall, a quite clumsily prepared provocation is apparent, when the passenger "Boeing" was consciously directed (from Kiev or from Dnepropetrovsk this is yet to be clarified) into the zone of a military conflict, where it wen't accompanied by the two junta jets, after which it was destroyed (with a high share of probability, 1 more plane was destroyed besides the "Boeing", which is where the parachutes came from). Later the mechanism of the information pump was launched with the goal of blaming the militia fighters in the destruction of the airplane, which the junta brought into the DPR sky on purpose. In the internet there were a lot of fake injections that the airplane was shot down by the militia, that new sanctions need to be introduced and that NATO military intervention has to start.
The goal of the provocations quite clear to blame the militia and the Russian Federation and to turn around the unfortunately arranging tendencies in Donbass. Because the provocation was made quite crudely (even on the foreign resources they reasonably point out that the main culprits sit in Kiev), then its effect from my point of view will be limited. At maximum, the junta will try to squeeze a temporary respite out of this badly prepared provocation, in order to catch its breath after the catastrophe in the battles for Luhansk, Izvarino, and Krasnodon.
Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border - live - Paul Rigby - 20-07-2014
The Mystery of Flight #MH17 - Critical Questions
[video=youtube_share;u4nciRLPAts]http://youtu.be/u4nciRLPAts[/video]
With some fascinating reflections on the previous Malaysian airline disappearance
Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border - live - Lauren Johnson - 20-07-2014
7/20/2014 update by Yoichi Shimatsu
As the only non-European journalist to cover The Hague inquiry into the Amsterdam crash of El Al flight 1862 (October 1992), which destroyed a Biljmeer district apartment complex, I discovered many aspects of the Israeli security set-up at Schipol International Airport and the role of the Mossad intelligence agency in secret operations there, one of Europe's business transport hubs. This same airport spy network is very likely involved in the recent crash of Malaysian Airlines flight 17 over the Ukraine.
Covering the Biljmeer crash for Japan Playboy, I uncovered the sordid facts of how the official investigation back then was undone by a large network of Israeli intelligence agents who paid hush money to victims' families, pressured injured firefighters from filing lawsuits over radiation exposure, and suppressed data from the hangar where the wreckage was stored. The crippled El Al cargo jet, leased from UPS, had transported from JFK Airport in New York a secret load of weapons including plutonium, depleted uranium and a bioweapon called mycoplasm in its cargo bay before crashing on an attempt to return to Schipol Airport, in an operation directed by the Israeli intelligence service instead of Dutch flight officials.
Once again, this time in the destruction of MH17, there is an Israeli-connected air crash with political ramifications involving Israeli strategic interests, inside Israel exactly when its military launches an invasion of Gaza and in troubled Ukraine, a supplier of military electronics to the IDF.
Security at Schipol Airport is operated by ICTS, an Israeli-owned airport security company based in The Netherlands founded by former officers of the Shin Beit intelligence agency. Its subsidiaries are also involved in key security functions there, including ProCheck, Ramasso and I-SEC.
The Israeli security company has a record of staging false flag operations, including the September 11, 2001 attacks. ICaTS subsidiary Huntleigh provided passenger and baggage inspection services at Boston Logan Airport, where two of the four jetliners used in the 911 attack originated.
At Schipol Airport on Christmas 2009, ICTS allowed the "Underwear Bomber" Umar Farouk Abdulmutallah armed with explosives to slip past "sniffer" detectors to board a Detroit-bound Northwest flight, an incident that was a boon to Homeland Security and the global war on terrorism.
Initial information, even before the start of an official inquiry into MH17, raise serious questions of whether Israeli intelligence tampered with the flight controls and radar identification (transponder) system of the Malaysian-operated Boeing-777.
- MH17 deviated from the civilian flight path, which should cross close to the exit mouth of the Azov Sea, away from the current battle zone between the Ukraine military and militant ethnic Russian irregulars. Instead its navigation steered the jetliner on a more northerly course in contested airspace, where Ukraine military aircraft conduct both air strikes and troop transport missions, putting the Malaysian Airlines jet into jeopardy.
- The wide-body Boeing-777 jumbo jet is similar in profile to the Antonov (built by Kharkov Aircraft Industries in Ukraine) and Ilyushin (Russian-built) transport craft in service with the Ukraine military and air cargo fleets. At higher altitudes (MH17 was flying at 35,000 feet), the only way from ground level to identify a plane is by a coded radar response from its transponder signal. One possibility was that MH17 was programmed with a false responder code; while another problem could have been confusion with the transponder beam from a nearby Ukraine military craft. A more sinister scenario is the sending of a false ID signal from a ground-based vehicle.
In short, Israeli operatives could have loaded a bomb onto MH17 or used a false responder signal to lure a rebel missile battery to intercept a suspected incoming troop landing. Another issue for investigation, if these scenarios are verified, is the unspoken connection between the Boeing Corporation and the Israeli intelligence services. Boeing would have key data on tampering of any of its aircraft control systems, and both MH17 and MH370 were Boeing-777s.
Israeli intelligence had three possible motives for orchestrating a false flag incident blamed on ethnic Russians or on the Kremlin.
- first, the MH17 crash diverted international media attention from the launch of the Israeli invasion of Gaza, which is a serious rupture of existing peace accords and a massive assault on human rights. Malaysia is an outspoken voice in the UN and the world media on Palestinian rights in Gaza.
- second, Israel, even with the Zionist economic interests in Russia such as BP, has a historical interest in the 45 000-member strong Jewish community in the port of Odessa, which has a large stake in the financial sector, military electronics industry, missile production and weapons factories. PBN and GQR, lobbying organizations controlled by American Jewish neoconservatives, are the most influential force in Ukraine politics.
- third, the destruction of MH17 serves as a warning to the governments of Malaysia and Australia to cease any further investigation into the strong possibility that MH370 was hijacked by the Israeli military. MH370 was carrying engineers, designers, prototypes, specifications and a chip foundry for the world's smallest microchip, the KL series. The leading edge technology is needed for Israel's crash program to build a drone army, especially mini-robots capable of infiltrating Iran's nuclear plants. (This writer has extensively researched a nd uncovered Israeli involvement in the MH370 hijacking at rense.com)
One point of bias that needs to be disclosed is that this writer is a sympathizer of Ukraine independence and opposes Russian intervention. In specific incidents, however, such as the destruction of MH17, one's preferences must be set aside in pursuit of the facts relevant to the case. The Israeli role in this affair cannot be ignored, especially considering its abiding interests in independent Ukraine. Therefore, the Kiev government should launch an investigation into the possibility of sabotage by an ally so as not to harm& nbsp;its legitimacy by incriminating itself together with Israeli state-sponsored terrorism, legitimate grounds for reprisal by its adversary. A Ukraine that claims to be independent should try to be independent.
As an investigation team approaches the crash site, the real cover-up is yet to begin. The family members and friends of both targeted Malaysian Airlines jetliners are owed the truth and the culprits must be dragged to justice.
Yoichi Shimatsu is a science and technology journalist based in Hong Kong and former editor of The Japan Times Weekly in Tokyo.
Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border - live - Magda Hassan - 20-07-2014
Ralf Anders Wrote:... (Written in a hurry in my second language.) RalfWell done Ralf! Keep it coming. I have more than enough trouble with my first language let alone any others. That was excellent and English is a pain too. I have found the Oriental Review to be a good source in the past. Yeah, and Parubiy is a most sinister presence in the whole Orange 2.0 op going on here.
Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border - live - Peter Lemkin - 20-07-2014
The speculation and proposed scenarios are now all over the map. Some of it is quite interesting, and all leads need to be followed up. But the best evidence would be at the crash site. It would be fairly easy to tell if the plane exploded from inside, or was hit by shrapnel/rods from outside. Also to be kept in mind, is that both Ukraine and Russia stated [without yet providing their proof, if any] that a BUK SAM was used to bring down the plane. The radar traces, any heat tracks of a SAM, and even voice communication between flight controllers and pilots should exist somewhere. All too many [all?] of the likely players in this have reasons to obscure aspects of the evidence, or thwart a real unbiased investigation. To me, most everyone looks suspicious. I noted the strange timing of both the attack in Gaza and the MAL-17 being brought down when the attack began. That doesn't automatically point to Israel as the culprit [nor rule them out] - they could have just used it as convenient cover. Very upsetting is that the separatists are not allowing full access to the crash site yet, and there are some claims of tampering with it. It is not a good situation in which to do an investigation as to what happened. Also, it doesn't much make one feel confident to get on any airplane. First it was only the horrible security searches - now, one's very life is endangered, as planes are increasingly used on the 'grand chess board'. What next?!
Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border - live - Magda Hassan - 20-07-2014
Lauren Johnson Wrote:
- third, the destruction of MH17 serves as a warning to the governments of Malaysia and Australia to cease any further investigation into the strong possibility that MH370 was hijacked by the Israeli military.
Zionists and Ukrainian fascists and US neo-cons have nothing to worry about from the current Australian PM. He is totally on side with them no matter what they do
::: and he is trying his best to turn Australia in to the very worst of the US. He is not very bright either and would not have a clue he is being played. He absolutely welcomes the attention (though Putin and Lavrov aren't taking his or his FM's call for some reason...) as it is deflecting the incandescent rage against him here. There have been 3 national street protests against his vile government since he was elected (Murdoched) Just ordinary people taking to the streets not organised by any opposition party. Unprecedented.
Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border - live - Danny Jarman - 20-07-2014
Peter Lemkin Wrote:, and even voice communication between flight controllers and pilots should exist somewhere.
They do, but the Ukrainians confiscated it and are refusing to release it. After MH370 they were released almost instantly.
Expect the edited version in a week or so when they don't have any incriminating information.
Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border - live - Paul Rigby - 20-07-2014
Peter Lemkin Wrote:Very upsetting is that the separatists are not allowing full access to the crash site yet...
The truth is much worse for the junta: the cynical blighters are.
Peter Lemkin Wrote:What next?!
Vlad the Mad ate my Ukrainian hamster?
Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border - live - David Guyatt - 20-07-2014
Magda Hassan Wrote:Lauren Johnson Wrote:
- third, the destruction of MH17 serves as a warning to the governments of Malaysia and Australia to cease any further investigation into the strong possibility that MH370 was hijacked by the Israeli military.
Zionists and Ukrainian fascists and US neo-cons have nothing to worry about from the current Australian PM. He is totally on side with them no matter what they do
Putin isn't taking calls from David Cameron either. Why would he when it's evident that the UK have already decided who is t blame and are playing that like crazy. One UK newspaper headline today had all the pictures of the deceased children and was finer-pouting at Russia. A very emotionally charged image clearly designed to dehumanise Putin and Russia. This is all getting very nasty, very quickly.