Magda Hassan Wrote:David, this is not what I posted. If you want to know the context of this though the poster is referring to some group who claim to be for peace but are out there supporting Israel government actions (which are military and not peaceful) S/He seems to be saying they have not thought their actions through and doesn't want to be associated with them. But this is just differences of opinion between some left factions and is not of interest to me and I don't know why it is of interest to you.



I have NO idea what you are trying to say here. Are you saying that protesting is good as it works so there should be a Jane Fonda type to go and pose with tanks and protest? What exactly are you protesting for or against? Hamas or Israel? Or Palestinians or Jews? Or war in general? Jane Fonda? Sorry David. I just have no idea what you are trying to say here. Or even if it is a joke.



Don't allow yourself to be distracted by shiny things David. Who cares what a blogger calls him or her self. Look at the book not the cover. Did you read what they said? Did you check out the links in the article?

In case you didn't here is the link where the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (the part of the UN that look after the worlds refugees and who ran the school that the Israeli military bombed) speaks officially of how Israel has retracted their statement that there were hamas rockets fired from the school. http://leninology.blogspot.com/2009/01/unrwa-spokesperson-statement-on-israeli.html

Here is the link where it says that 3 UN run schools were hit on Tuesday. Well, to paraphrase Oscar Wilde to lose one school is a misfortune but to lose two looks like carelessness. What does that make three? Looks like deliberate targeting to me.

http://www.nowlebanon.com/NewsArticleDetails.aspx?ID=73907


Here is the link from the UN about the family killed at the school a designated refuge centre:
http://reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db900SID/EGUA-7N2N56?OpenDocument&rc=3&cc=pse


Here is the link from the UN stating that there were no Hamas in the school either refugees or casualties: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1870087,00.html


Here is the link showing Israeli arrogance (and displacement activity) in wanting to charge the UN with harboring Hamas in it buildings. It also shows that Israel’s ability to discern friendly and hostile targets seems to be in considerable doubt as they shot up a building containing their own military. Very professional.
http://news.antiwar.com/2009/01/06/israel-mulls-complaining-to-un-after-killings/

And just to make sure here is another link that shows that Israel is admitting that there were no rockets fired from the school by Hamas or any one else. http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/249400,extra-un-israel-admits-rocket-fire-was-not-from-within-school.html

Now, I know that links above are only from the MSM and eyewitnesses to the events and not from or approved by the AIPAC newsletter editor and are there fore biased but I think Lenin or Fifi or Mambo No5 or what ever s/he likes to call themselves has put a respectable bit of work together. Try reading it. Then comment.

Quote:Shiny things? You mean bullets, RPG's, Rockets, Missiles, those kind of things? Yeah hon, they distract me, as a Vietnam Veteran they've ALWAYS distracted me.

David Healy Wrote:further.... the below works for me

The War Prayer
by Mark Twain

It was a time of great exulting and excitement. The country was up in arms, the war was on, in every breast burned the holy fire of patriotism; the drums were beating, the bands playing, the toy pistols popping, the bunched firecrackers hissing and sputtering; on every hand and far down the receding and fading spread of roofs and balconies a fluttering wilderness of flags flashed in the sun; daily the young volunteers marched down the wide avenue gay and fine in their new uniforms, the proud fathers and mothers and sisters and sweethearts cheering them with voices choked with happy emotion as they swung by; nightly the packed mass meetings listened, panting, to patriot oratory which stirred the deepest depths of their hearts, and which they interrupted at briefest intervals with cyclones of applause, the tears running down their cheeks the while; in the churches the pastors preached devotion to flag and country, and invoked the God of Battles, beseeching His aid in our good cause in outpourings of fervid eloquence which moved every listener. It was indeed a glad and gracious time, and the half dozen rash spirits that ventured to disapprove of the war and cast doubt upon its righteousness straight way got such a stern and angry warning that for their personal safety's sake they quickly shrank out of sight and offended no more in that way.

Sunday morning came – next day the battalions would leave for the front; the church was filled; the volunteers were there, their young faces alight with martial dreams – visions of the stern advance, the gathering momentum, the rushing charge, the flashing sabers, the flight of the foe, the tumult, the enveloping smoke, the fierce pursuit, the surrender! – then home from the war, bronzed heroes, welcomed, adored, submerged in golden seas of glory! With the volunteers sat their dear ones, proud, happy, and envied by the neighbors and friends who had no sons and brothers to send forth to the field of honor, there to win for the flag, or failing, die the noblest of noble deaths. The service proceeded; a war chapter from the Old Testament was read; the first prayer was said; it was followed by an organ burst that shook the building, and with one impulse the house rose, with glowing eyes and beating hearts, and poured out that tremendous invocation:

"God the all-terrible! Thou who ordainest, Thunder thy clarion and lightning thy sword!"

Then came the "long" prayer. None could remember the like of it for passionate pleading and moving and beautiful language. The burden of its supplication was, that an ever-merciful and benignant Father of us all would watch over our noble young soldiers, and aid, comfort, and encourage them in their patriotic work; bless them, shield them in the day of battle and the hour of peril, bear them in His mighty hand, make them strong and confident, invincible in the bloody onset; help them to crush the foe, grant to them and to their flag and country imperishable honor and glory.

An aged stranger entered and moved with slow and noiseless step up the main aisle, his eyes fixed upon the minister, his long body clothed in a robe that reached to his feet, his head bare, his white hair descending in a frothy cataract to his shoulders, his seamy face unnaturally pale, pale even to ghastliness. With all eyes following and wondering, he made his silent way; without pausing, he ascended to the preacher's side and stood there, waiting.

With shut lids the preacher, unconscious of his presence, continued his moving prayer, and at last finished it with the words, uttered in fervent appeal,

"Bless our arms, grant us victory, O Lord our God, Father and Protector of our land and flag!"

The stranger touched his arm, motioned him to step aside – which the startled minister did – and took his place. During some moments he surveyed the spellbound audience with solemn eyes, in which burned an uncanny light; then in a deep voice he said:

"I come from the Throne – bearing a message from Almighty God!"

The words smote the house with a shock; if the stranger perceived it he gave no attention.

"He has heard the prayer of His servant your shepherd, and will grant it if such be your desire after I, His messenger, shall have explained to you its import – that is to say, its full import. For it is like unto many of the prayers of men, in that it asks for more than he who utters it is aware of – except he pause and think.

"God's servant and yours has prayed his prayer. Has he paused and taken thought? Is it one prayer? No, it is two – one uttered, the other not. Both have reached the ear of Him Who heareth all supplications, the spoken and the unspoken. Ponder this – keep it in mind. If you would beseech a blessing upon yourself, beware! lest without intent you invoke a curse upon a neighbor at the same time. If you pray for the blessing of rain upon your crop which needs it, by that act you are possibly praying for a curse upon some neighbor's crop which may not need rain and can be injured by it.

"You have heard your servant's prayer – the uttered part of it. I am commissioned of God to put into words the other part of it – that part which the pastor – and also you in your hearts – fervently prayed silently. And ignorantly and unthinkingly? God grant that it was so!

You heard these words: 'Grant us victory, O Lord our God!' That is sufficient. The whole of the uttered prayer is compact into those pregnant words. Elaborations were not necessary. When you have prayed for victory you have prayed for many unmentioned results which follow victory – must follow it, cannot help but follow it. Upon the listening spirit of God the Father fell also the unspoken part of the prayer. He commandeth me to put it into words. Listen!

"O Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth to battle – be Thou near them! With them – in spirit – we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with hurricanes of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with their little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it – for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen."

[After a pause.] "Ye have prayed it; if ye still desire it, speak! The messenger of the Most High waits."

not bad for the author of Huck Finn, huh?

Might someone pass this on to the bloggster: lenin

David Healy Wrote:What I see in a few threads here, is serious Jew bashing, from the sidelines yet.

Where's the deep politics? Does that come when the bashing is over?

Charles Drago Wrote:David,

In the past we've found much on which to agree. In addition, I'm certain you'll recall the many heartfelt kind words I've sent your way over the years.

So while I'm not offended by your charge of "Jew bashing" on this forum, I must stand to correct you in the strongest possible terms.

If referencing war crimes being committed by the State of Israel is "Jew bashing," then referencing war crimes being committed by George W. Bush's America is "Gentile bashing."

Israel is a criminal nation. So is America. That is to say, many of the respective official national policies of these countries violate international law and stand as crimes against humanity.

Period.

The religious affiliations of the criminals are not relevant to my judgements herein offered.

Respectfully,

Charles

David Guyatt Wrote:David, you and I should meet up sometime, have a beer or two and discuss these sorts of matters. I am a big fan of Mark Twain and his "War Prayer" is more than insightful and works for me also.

...

David

Myra Bronstein Wrote:Is this part of Israel's strategy? Have they intentionally gone so far beyond the pale that Hamas has no choice but to reject negotiations?...