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+--- Thread: Technical Hurdles Suggest Extensive Z-Film Alteration Highly Unlikely (/Thread-Technical-Hurdles-Suggest-Extensive-Z-Film-Alteration-Highly-Unlikely)
Technical Hurdles Suggest Extensive Z-Film Alteration Highly Unlikely - Chris Davidson - 30-08-2013
Hi Jeff,
If you haven't already, I believe you should become familiar with this document.
Frames 161-166 have the limo traveling a distance of 9/10ft which equals 2.24 mph.
The extant film does not agree.
According to Shaneyfelt, it averaged 11.2 mph from 161-313.
chris
Technical Hurdles Suggest Extensive Z-Film Alteration Highly Unlikely - Tracy Riddle - 30-08-2013
Michael Cross Wrote:My mind boggles.
I have the "Twilight Zone" movie with Dan Ackroyd looping in my mind: "Wanna see something really scary?"
Over in the UFO community, there are people who have been shown films (whether real or fake) of alien landings on military bases, or have been shown through bases where they saw "alien bodies." Jacques Vallee argues in Revelations [http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/revelations_vallee.pdf ] that these are psyops designed to mess with the minds of UFO researchers, divide and disrupt them, and influence their belief systems.
Technical Hurdles Suggest Extensive Z-Film Alteration Highly Unlikely - David Josephs - 30-08-2013
Indeed Chris....
Bringing this to rest... quoting Zavada's response as "supporting material" is like citing Dale Myers' response to challenges about his z-toon fiasco.
Zavada did the work and he stands by his understanding of the timings and processes involved...
He does NOT look into the options we've been discussing..
He does NOT understand that the difference between the "original" and the "extant original" boils down to
1) missing frames
2) aerial painting techniques to cover detail
What he saw and worked on was a finished product... possbily even exposed within the Zap camera itself... 35 YEARS AFTER THE FACT
Try that again... 35 YEARS later Jeff.
0183 is gone
the film has multiple splices both physical and printed
the total of side B film exceeds 33 feet
Edge print and date codes are backward on the copies
==============
Jeff - YOU refer to Zavada's reply as a whole... there's a LOT discussed in that paper... are you simply letting him make your argument for you without explanation,
or do you have something within that document that you can point to that supports what you've tried to say?
Did you bother reading Horne's reply to Zavada and incorporate that into your "supporting material"?
http://insidethearrb.livejournal.com/4900.html
THEEMPIRE STRIKES BACK
insidethearrb
May 29th, 2010
My long chapter on the history of the Zapruder film, and the evidence for its apparent alteration (in order to hide the fact that President Kennedy was killed by multiple shooters in a crossfire, as he was driven into an expertly arranged ambush on Elm Street, on November 22, 1963), is Chapter 14 of my five-volume book, "Inside the Assassination Records Review Board," and appears in Volume IV of that work, which can be purchased at Amazon.com (keywords "Horne JFK").
In Chapter 14 I take to task many of the conclusions reached by retired Kodak employee Roland J. ("Rollie") Zavada, who was rehired as a consultant by Kodak to perform pro bono work for the ARRB during 1997 and 1998. That work included a limited authenticity study, of which I am quite critical in myChapter 14.
I just[B] received from Rollie himself a 33-page rebuttal to my Zapruder film chapter, in [/B]which he takes exception to many of my criticisms, arguments, and assertions. In his cover letter, dated May 26, 2010, Rollie states that he has mailed copies of his 33-page report to many of those mentioned in Chapter 14, which surely must include Josiah Thompson, David Wrone, and Gary Mack. With the sure knowledge that his rebuttal will soon appear on the internet in various venues, I hereby offer my own comments on his paper.
Rollie's need to defend himself is not an unexpected development, and came a sno surprise. What does surprise me is that it is so weakly argued, and incomplete.
Much of his paper consists of hairsplitting, in a feeble attempt to defend the flawed methodology he employed in the report he delivered at the eleventh hourto the ARRB in late September of 1998.
Most of it appears to be a grandfatherly scolding, in which Rollie says, essentially---I am paraphrasing here---"You must trust me, I know more than you, and the technology did not exist to successfully alter the Zapruderfilm without detection, and create an undetectable forgery or facsimile of it or any other 8 mm films in 1963; and even if the film was altered, it would have required a lot of equipment and a lot of personnel."
........ it continues at the link above....
Technical Hurdles Suggest Extensive Z-Film Alteration Highly Unlikely - Jim DiEugenio - 30-08-2013
Umm, David, as I said, there is no Hollywood Group.
What there is is the Wilkinsons. They invited people from the industry to a screening of their work.
But their work is not what Horne is talking about.
I know what I am saying since I visited the Wilkinsons in person for two hours.
Doug has a tendency to overstate things.
Let us not forget, this is the guy who said that Kennedy may have been killed by the Secret Service agent from the front seat.
Really. I would have loved to have heard that conversation: "But wait, hundreds of people would see me do it."
Technical Hurdles Suggest Extensive Z-Film Alteration Highly Unlikely - Jim DiEugenio - 30-08-2013
My long review of Horne's five volume set:
Part 1
[URL="http://www.ctka.net/reviews/horne_jd.html"]http://www.ctka.net/reviews/horne_jd.html
[/URL]
Technical Hurdles Suggest Extensive Z-Film Alteration Highly Unlikely - Jim DiEugenio - 30-08-2013
Part 2:
http://www.ctka.net/reviews/horne_jd_2.html
Technical Hurdles Suggest Extensive Z-Film Alteration Highly Unlikely - Jim DiEugenio - 30-08-2013
Part 3, I thought this was the best part of the series, with Volume 2, in second place.
http://www.ctka.net/reviews/horne_jd_3.html
Technical Hurdles Suggest Extensive Z-Film Alteration Highly Unlikely - Jim DiEugenio - 30-08-2013
I thought this was the worst part of the series:
[URL="http://www.ctka.net/reviews/horne_jd_3.html"]http://www.ctka.net/reviews/horne_jd_3.html
B[/URL]TW, some people e mailed me later about why I did not deal with the so called KGB report and the Boyajinean report or whatever the guy's name was.
In the first case, an FBI report with no primary sourcing is not a KGB source. Secondly, Gary Aguilar was supposed to write a review and deal with the latter. He was unexpectedly divorced.
SO I dealt with this in my review of Kaleidoscope. LIvingstone pretty much shows that Hornre oversold this so called report as "proving" Lifton's thesis. It does not do that by any stretch of the imagination.
Technical Hurdles Suggest Extensive Z-Film Alteration Highly Unlikely - David Healy - 30-08-2013
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:Umm, David, as I said, there is no Hollywood Group.
What there is is the Wilkinsons. They invited people from the industry to a screening of their work.
But their work is not what Horne is talking about.
I know what I am saying since I visited the Wilkinsons in person for two hours.
Doug has a tendency to overstate things.
Let us not forget, this is the guy who said that Kennedy may have been killed by the Secret Service agent from the front seat.
Really. I would have loved to have heard that conversation: "But wait, hundreds of people would see me do it."
I suspect Jim you were given a 'courtesy' peek, for some reason or other that escapes me, perhaps case-evidence investigation longevity? I'm sure your visit to Los Angeles was just enlightening as was mine. And there the similarity ends. I know exactly what I was looking at, and how it was done. I speak the Wilkinson's language, that's why I was there. As does, David Lifton, and some might find it surprising David Mantik as well, although along with his MD he owns a PhD in physics... and a whole host of film post-production editors, film restoration specialists and film colorist types that prefer anonymityat the moment.
Best to tick with what you know best, Jim. Frankly, I'll saddle up with the guy that has actually dealt and worked with Rollie Zavada AND the alleged in-camera original Zapruder film.
There's gonna be plenty of thunder to pass around, soon...
--David
Technical Hurdles Suggest Extensive Z-Film Alteration Highly Unlikely - Chris Davidson - 30-08-2013
David Josephs Wrote:Great to hear from you Chris....
Now, Keep 1 and discard 2 and play at 16fps...
The ratio of 48/18.3 is obviously not 3.... To have a smooth film, 48fps less 2/3rds the frames shown at 16fps should be smooth, and identical to the same scene filmed at 16fps.
IS images intact and everything.
Cheers
DJ
David,
For comparison purposes. The original frames running at approx 15fps.
http://www.mejuba.com/albums/jfkass/112938/8848866/show/original
chris