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+--- Thread: JFK: What we know now that we didn't know then (/thread-8338.html)
JFK: What we know now that we didn't know then - Seamus Coogan - 16-12-2011
Adele Edisen Wrote:Seamus Coogan Wrote:Albert Doyle Wrote:Adele Edisen Wrote:Johnson is a very unlikely candidate to be a conspirator or head of a conspiracy to assassinate John Kennedy.
Even though I'm admittedly a lesser-studied student of the Assassination I'd have to strongly agree with the latter but respectfully disagree with the former. The wink of an eye can say a lot.
Mate I don't think Adele fully believes that now unless I am much mistaken.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Seamus and Al,
Please give me a clue. What are you two talking about?.
My belief is that I never considered Lyndon Johnson as an enemy of John Kennedy. The wink by Thomas was probably to say, "I'll help you in your presidency. I'm with you." Something one Democrat would say to another. Let's not make more of it than it is.
There is another photograph of Lyndon Johnson taken on the morning of Friday, Nov. 22, 1963, while President John Kennedy was addressing the crowd outside of the Hotel Texas in Fort Worth, before the flight to Dallas. Vice-President Lyndon Johnson is standing behind Kennedy and he looks worried. Some people apparently thnk he looks angry, but I don't. LBJ was not angry; he was worried about the trip to Dallas, which he feared would produce some kind of embarassmemt to the presidential party as they would drive through the streets of Dallas, stronghold of the John Birch Society, Minutemen and Minutewomen, and other nutty right-wing extremists. Even Kennedy knew this, for he had said to Jackie that morning, "We're in nut country now."
It bothers me that many people have not sought to find and identify the real enemies of John Kennedy, nor have they sought to understand the historic precedents, the sociological and economic factors which brought about the assassination. There are many clues about if only one looks for them and follows them through. .I have urged people to study the attempted coup against President Roosevelt in 1933-34. The same elements that were in play then were instrumental in November, 1963, just thirty years later. Until this is understood, the Kennedy assassination, and those of Martin Luther King, Jr., Robert Kennedy, Malcolm X, will not be explained or solved. Examine what links all of those murders together. That would be a beginning. What threats did those four individuals present and to whom were they a threat? This is my view.
Adele Edisen
Personally I think anybody who tries to say they have all the answers in this case is seriously up their own buttocks. I think there's a handy case for Dulles and his cronies, but above and beyond I don't pretend to know. Jim Di has a good run down. I think that we are misinterpreting power and influence. They are both quite seperate. LBJ was an appendage to a larger scale plot which he had no control over effectively. I think Lisa Pease has done exceptional work on RFK, Joe Green has done superbly on MLK and JFK like Lisa. X is a fascinating case. But I have to say 'The Assassinations' edited by Lisa and Jim is superb. Its a great starting point. JF is a joke, yes a joke will disagree. He has not even replied to my comments concerning his and John Hankey's silly defence or their position concerning GWB. Please hold tight. I am awaiting Jim Douglas comments about being compared alongside Phil Nelson.
Lol!!!! Its a question JF never had the stomach to ask the man himself. He presumed much like he did when he said COPA and Lancer would
have him back anytime he wanted.
Dreams are so very very free.
JFK: What we know now that we didn't know then - Charles Drago - 16-12-2011
Seamus,
Do you know for a fact that Douglass intends to respond to Nelson and or the Douglass/Nelson comparison?
JFK: What we know now that we didn't know then - Seamus Coogan - 16-12-2011
Charles Drago Wrote:Seamus,
Do you know for a fact that Douglass intends to respond to Nelson and or the Douglass/Nelson comparison?
CD did I say trust me lol?
I gave Jim Di an email to forward on to Mr Douglas. Knowing Jim Di's standing and his good relations with Jim Douglas (more so than Mr Fetzers I have to say)
it's a good bet I'll get an answer. So yeah I can say for a fact I will. But it bloody well depends on when.
Jim Di is busy and he may have forgotten. If you could actually email
Jim and see what he has done with it might be an idea. I could then re-draft it for us and send it on behalf of yourself and I (and anyone else)
to Mr Douglas.
Someone with your muscle may well help speed up the process. Lemme know via email mate.
JFK: What we know now that we didn't know then - Albert Doyle - 16-12-2011
Adele Edisen Wrote:Seamus and Al,
Please give me a clue. What are you two talking about?.
I was commenting on your post that said Johnson was not the planner of any conspiracy and was not involved in any either. I agree he wasn't any mastermind, however I think the evidence shows he was deeply involved in the plot as a conscious aider and abettor. I also hold a minority opinion that there was something to Johnson's saying to Madeleine Brown that those damned Kennedy's won't bother me any more. Maybe just not in the Murchison context suggested by Brown. It deserves investigation anyway.
JFK: What we know now that we didn't know then - Adele Edisen - 18-12-2011
Albert Doyle Wrote:______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Adele Edisen Wrote:Seamus and Al,
Please give me a clue. What are you two talking about?.
I was commenting on your post that said Johnson was not the planner of any conspiracy and was not involved in any either. I agree he wasn't any mastermind, however I think the evidence shows he was deeply involved in the plot as a conscious aider and abettor. I also hold a minority opinion that there was something to Johnson's saying to Madeleine Brown that those damned Kennedy's won't bother me any more. Maybe just not in the Murchison context suggested by Brown. It deserves investigation anyway.
Al,
Thank you for clarifying this for me.
If LBJ was the aider and abettor of the plot to murder John Kennedy, why would he and his staff then try to prevent Kennedy from going to Dallas? See references Seamus and I provided in earlier posts. What is the evidence that he wanted to kill Kennedy, and why did he want to do that? I see no solid evidence that shows that. And Kennedy wanted him as VP in 1964 because he valued LBJ's political skills and the support their ticket could get in the Southern states.
As for Madeleine, she did not see LBJ onThursday, November 21, 1963, day or nighttime. Lyndon Johnson was touring Texas as Vice-President of the United States with the President of the United States, with their wives, staffs, Secret Service details, newspaper and media reporters, and crowds at every stop. The trip's schedule and agenda did not allow for any unaccounted moments.
If Madeleine Brown honestly thought that Lyndon Johnson had anything to do with the murder of the President, why didn't she report this to the federal or state law enforcement agencies? I understand from what I've been told by Dallas citizens and investigators that she began telling her story in 1985 or so to Hollywood contacts in order to sell her story to movie makers. Then with the yearly Dallas meetings, she found audiences and made some videos. In one video she named more than two dozen men who were supposed to have been in the special meeting also attended by Lyndon Johnson, and for each one she gave a full description of their positions, associations, and possible links to the JFK assassination. Some she named were found not to be in Dallas at all. When asked to name some of the women at the party, she came up with two or three names, without too much in the description of their positions, etc. Curious.
In her videos Madeleine expresses deep ambivalence towards Lyndon Johnson. Others have noted this also, and wonder about her motivations. I certainly agree with you about the need for further investigation. We have been misled and lied to about the most important event in American History in the Twentieth Century. It affects all our lives and will continue to do so until we know the Truth of our History.
Adele
JFK: What we know now that we didn't know then - Seamus Coogan - 18-12-2011
Adele Edisen Wrote:Albert Doyle Wrote:______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Adele Edisen Wrote:Seamus and Al,
Please give me a clue. What are you two talking about?.
I was commenting on your post that said Johnson was not the planner of any conspiracy and was not involved in any either. I agree he wasn't any mastermind, however I think the evidence shows he was deeply involved in the plot as a conscious aider and abettor. I also hold a minority opinion that there was something to Johnson's saying to Madeleine Brown that those damned Kennedy's won't bother me any more. Maybe just not in the Murchison context suggested by Brown. It deserves investigation anyway.
Al,
Thank you for clarifying this for me.
If LBJ was the aider and abettor of the plot to murder John Kennedy, why would he and his staff then try to prevent Kennedy from going to Dallas? See references Seamus and I provided in earlier posts. What is the evidence that he wanted to kill Kennedy, and why did he want to do that? I see no solid evidence that shows that. And Kennedy wanted him as VP in 1964 because he valued LBJ's political skills and the support their ticket could get in the Southern states.
As for Madeleine, she did not see LBJ onThursday, November 21, 1963, day or nighttime. Lyndon Johnson was touring Texas as Vice-President of the United States with the President of the United States, with their wives, staffs, Secret Service details, newspaper and media reporters, and crowds at every stop. The trip's schedule and agenda did not allow for any unaccounted moments.
If Madeleine Brown honestly thought that Lyndon Johnson had anything to do with the murder of the President, why didn't she report this to the federal or state law enforcement agencies? I understand from what I've been told by Dallas citizens and investigators that she began telling her story in 1985 or so to Hollywood contacts in order to sell her story to movie makers. Then with the yearly Dallas meetings, she found audiences and made some videos. In one video she named more than two dozen men who were supposed to have been in the special meeting also attended by Lyndon Johnson, and for each one she gave a full description of their positions, associations, and possible links to the JFK assassination. Some she named were found not to be in Dallas at all. When asked to name some of the women at the party, she came up with two or three names, without too much in the description of their positions, etc. Curious.
In her videos Madeleine expresses deep ambivalence towards Lyndon Johnson. Others have noted this also, and wonder about her motivations. I certainly agree with you about the need for further investigation. We have been misled and lied to about the most important event in American History in the Twentieth Century. It affects all our lives and will continue to do so until we know the Truth of our History.
Adele
I think she may well have met Johnson but as you say not that night. She was a groupie effectively. Adele like you I dont buy her one shred.
JFK: What we know now that we didn't know then - Charles Drago - 18-12-2011
Adele Edisen Wrote:If LBJ was the aider and abettor of the plot to murder John Kennedy, why would he and his staff then try to prevent Kennedy from going to Dallas?
The gesture intentionally would have been weak, ineffectual, and designed to provide precisely the alibi which you present.
This forum is devoted to the study of deep politics -- and all the strategies and tactics thereto attached.
JFK: What we know now that we didn't know then - Dawn Meredith - 18-12-2011
Seamus Coogan Wrote:Charles Drago Wrote:Seamus,
Do you know for a fact that Douglass intends to respond to Nelson and or the Douglass/Nelson comparison?
CD did I say trust me lol?
I gave Jim Di an email to forward on to Mr Douglas. Knowing Jim Di's standing and his good relations with Jim Douglas (more so than Mr Fetzers I have to say)
it's a good bet I'll get an answer. So yeah I can say for a fact I will. But it bloody well depends on when.
Jim Di is busy and he may have forgotten. If you could actually email
Jim and see what he has done with it might be an idea. I could then re-draft it for us and send it on behalf of yourself and I (and anyone else)
to Mr Douglas.
Someone with your muscle may well help speed up the process. Lemme know via email mate.
Unless something has changed recently Jim Douglass is NOT online so it is doubtful he knows about any of this.
Dawn
JFK: What we know now that we didn't know then - Albert Doyle - 18-12-2011
Adele Edisen Wrote:Thank you for clarifying this for me.
If LBJ was the aider and abettor of the plot to murder John Kennedy, why would he and his staff then try to prevent Kennedy from going to Dallas?
To appear as the polite southern gentleman who wanted to spare the president the indignity of a hostile southern crowd he knew too well. To judge this action realize Johnson was receiving the real Viet Nam status updates behind Kennedy's back at the time. Study who Johnson kept as his "staff" and ask yourself if they, like Palamara's Secret Service, were ever the brave protectors of JFK?
Adele Edisen Wrote:And Kennedy wanted him as VP in 1964 because he valued LBJ's political skills and the support their ticket could get in the Southern states.
If you'll allow me, the true version of what you just wrote:
http://lyndonjohnsonmurderedjfk.blogspot.com/2010/12/lyndon-johnson-and-sam-rayburn.html
Adele Edisen Wrote:If Madeleine Brown honestly thought that Lyndon Johnson had anything to do with the murder of the President, why didn't she report this to the federal or state law enforcement agencies?
In terms of pure speculation that "Kennedy's won't bother me anymore" sounds awfully Lyndonish. Maybe she took liberties with the timing and place in order to dramatize its true meaning. That would make everything but its significance untrue.
There are many valid witnesses who didn't come forward because they were quite aware of the Kennedy witness effect happening at the time where an unusual rate of death was occurring within the main witnesses.
And then there's always the possibility she was working for those very authorities creating a fib where all the main suspects were exonerated by having one giant conspiracy tale exposed as rubbish with all the right people contained within it. In a room full of mirrors you never know what you'll see...
JFK: What we know now that we didn't know then - Adele Edisen - 19-12-2011
Charles Drago Wrote:______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Adele Edisen Wrote:If LBJ was the aider and abettor of the plot to murder John Kennedy, why would he and his staff then try to prevent Kennedy from going to Dallas?
The gesture intentionally would have been weak, ineffectual, and designed to provide precisely the alibi which you present.
This forum is devoted to the study of deep politics -- and all the strategies and tactics thereto attached.
Charles,
With all due respect, you say that LBJ's concerns and worries about the Dallas visit was a weak, ineffectual gesture designed to provide the "alibi which you present." I truly hope that I have not misunderstood your statement, or your intention, but if I have, I apologize in advance.
I am surprised that with your interests in deep politics you so casually throw away factual evidence like that. Why aren't researchers looking for the real enemies of John Kennedy, and and the other martyrs killed in the 1960s? Kennedy and Johnson were not enemies of each other. They were seeking the same democratic goals. Lyndon Johnson succeeded in getting a stronger Civil Rights Act passed, the voting Rights Act passed, the Freedom of Information Act passed, and through his Executive Order, put teeth into the Title 7 of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, the only title listing gender as a factor in employmet discrimination. Since colleges and universities were exempted from coverage in the original 1964 Act, Johnson's Executive Order provided a legal basis so that women, along with minorities, people of different national origins and religions, could effectively sue those employers, a very important and necessary issue because of the enormous discrimination in our colleges and universities. Kennedy wanted similar goals, so what reason would Johnson have had to murder his friend and colleague? Let's not revise and rewrite our history, please.
I am a scientist. I look for evidence, and I believe in facts and try to explain things on the basis of facts.. I had an experience in April 1963 learning about "deep politics" in the Kennedy assassination matter; I almost died from it. It is what I have lived with every day of my life since then.
I thought that's what this forum was supposed to be all about. I thought it was to understand the underlining events and forces in such events, and to find the Truth. Was I mistaken?
Adele Edisen