Jeffrey Orling Wrote:I try very hard to not be too influence [sic] by my distrust of the government...

Albert Rossi Wrote:I cannot speak for others, but I certainly do not see all events through a conspiracy filter. And "conspiracy" is such a vague and all-embracing concept anyway that to say conspiracy is to say little.

I think there is much truth in what you say about filtering, Jeffrey, and it does not apply only to belief in conspiracy, but could be seen as a general epistemological precept. I think all scholars of history or the human sciences worth their salt are constantly aware of this problem. I think that natural scientists have analogous problems (witness the anthropic principle, at least in some of its manifestations). Ultimately there is no absolute way out of it, but we all must be honest enough to admit that it operates in subtle ways that sometimes we cannot control. But awareness is half the battle.

Charles Drago Wrote:

Jeffrey Orling Wrote:I try very hard to not be too influence [sic] by my distrust of the government...

As good a working description of insanity as an I've read ...

Jeffrey Orling Wrote:Correct... but not the one the truth movement is pushing.

Would you elaborate on your non CD conception of the inside job?

Albert Doyle Wrote:

Jeffrey Orling Wrote:Correct... but not the one the truth movement is pushing.

Would you elaborate on your non CD conception of the inside job?

Simple. Covert members that seep out of the alphabet agencies and military practice a deeper form of black arts beyond those of those agencies. What is hidden beyond the hidden is what is especially evilly pure and dangerous. These men are of the Dulles persuasion and see themselves as gods using the world as a canvas. These people are supported by the usual sponsors who comprise the private sector version of the same. I've already explained that Peter Lance has detailed US being totally aware of the Bin Laden/Khalid Sheikh Mohammed airline terrorist underground back in 1994. When Clinton was deposed these persons saw an opening with a totally Republican government. If you look at American history this Republican fascist force killed JFK and started the VietNam War; waited for CIA Director Bush to be in power for the Gulf War; and finally got his son behind an all-out PNAC government hunting oil and power. These people knew the Bin Laden/KSM group was looking for a shot so they simply guided it in a covert form of plausible deniability. They almost got exposed because of a diligent cockpit training facility employee with Moussaoui but some quick stand-down orders took care of that only weeks before the attack.

I believe the unique structure of the Towers combined with the unprecedented flying of wide body commercial jets into skyscrapers caused an exceptional situation where the buildings collapsed on their own. When some say no steel frame building ever collapsed from fire they are ignoring this situation. The buildings they are referring to are classic buildings with frameworks throughout the structure that had common fires. The 9-11 fires were unusual crash damage fires in buildings with a fatal structural flaw stoked by high winds.

The plot is much simpler than you allow.

Tony Szamboti Wrote:So now you want to say a vertical drop of the core caused a large side to side motion that fractured perimeter connections. How did the core drop and why would it cause a large horizontal motion?

Tony Szamboti Wrote:Additionally, if the perimeter connections were so susceptible to horizontal motion the wind resistance of the design would not have been nearly what the designers purported it to be.

Tony Szamboti Wrote:The chief engineer John Skilling is on record explaining to authors Glanz and Lipton

The Vierendeel trusses would be so effective, according to the engineers' calculations, that all the columns on one side of a tower could be cut, as well as the two corners and several columns on the adjacent sides, and the tower would still be strong enough to withstand a 100-mile-per-hour wind. --City in the Sky, p 133

Jeffrey Orling Wrote:This sounds to me like what is called LIHOP and very much the way I presently conceive of what happened from JFK forward.

I think the nasties establish themselves within the NSS for the purpose of covertly as well as overtly pushing the world hegemony agenda... of course personal wealth a la nepotism and corrupt practices... drugs, weapons and so forth. It's all good on the inside and the revolving door is so much fun!

Albert Doyle Wrote:

Jeffrey Orling Wrote:This sounds to me like what is called LIHOP and very much the way I presently conceive of what happened from JFK forward.

I think the nasties establish themselves within the NSS for the purpose of covertly as well as overtly pushing the world hegemony agenda... of course personal wealth a la nepotism and corrupt practices... drugs, weapons and so forth. It's all good on the inside and the revolving door is so much fun!

When you leave the gate open to the fortress on purpose that is MIHOP by any definition.

Malcolm Pryce Wrote:Surely the LIHOP/MIHOP dichotomy is a sterile distraction. If you believe some of the perps were sitting in the Pentagon that morning, there can't be any such thing as LIHOP. They would have needed total control of every aspect of the operation. I mean, is Rumsfeld really going to sit in his office knowing there is a suicidal maniac in a hijacked plane heading that way, confident that the suicide pilot has promised to aim for that empty wedge at the back? The only way you could sit there would be if you knew there was no plane at all, but rather a totally reliable. precisely targeted missile.

Quote:I don't think one person made a single over arching decision which was then handed down and implemented by managers. A guess of course. My conception is that all those who are in top positions inside the NSS, intel and MIC subscribe to the same world view and they don't need to be told precisely what to do.

If you ask random senior military person you might encounter they will all share a similar conception of who the enemy is at any given time and how to fight and so forth. My suspicison is that the LIHOP means that there was intel that an attack was in the making... and this was seen as the oppportiunity to respond with overwhelming force and define the new enemy as a tangible real threat to the people of the US.

If a plot was thwarted the people would think...oh yea right... BS you guys made it up and are looking for a promotion or some such... so in order to ramp it up and get the next round of procurements going and a hot war and grab some oil a pretext was needed that would make this fly. No enemy no MIC and no procurement and downsizing and so forth... so those on the inside have a vested interest in seeing that there are enemies and credible ones... bombing a war ship in Yemen is hardly going to impact of the domestic population of the US.

The terrorists understood that they US loses all counter insurgencies and drains them... which is precisely what happened post 9/11. Once the empire tries to use their armies it always ends in a terrific loss to the empire and a waste of their treasure and eventually the people lose interest in supporting the adventurism. So they then resort to these little false flags to make sure people don't forget. But the empire is not growing it's bleeding not.

Who makes the decision to bomb civilians? or wedding parties? These sadists believe the are taking out the enemy and could care less... they are hired killers not paid to think or quesiton orders and policies. Once you get all these bots in place they do what bots do... what they are programmed to do. No thinking allowed.