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+--- Thread: Technical Hurdles Suggest Extensive Z-Film Alteration Highly Unlikely (/thread-11235.html)
Technical Hurdles Suggest Extensive Z-Film Alteration Highly Unlikely - Dawn Meredith - 30-08-2013
Tracy Riddle Wrote:I totally agree, Jim. Too many of the people associated with Fetzer have a cult-like mentality. They push ideas like the Altgens photo being altered, though it was put out on the AP wires just 30 minutes after the assassination. Then they delete comments on Youtube videos from people trying to point that out. Over on the 9/11 side, they seem to think that every bit of photographic footage from that day is faked. Seriously? These kinds of extreme, absolutist positions only serve to discredit the whole critical community and drive ordinary people towards the official story.I too agree with you Jim. In fact I kept away from this issue for years because of the cult- like approach. But too many have described the car almost stopping, etc. Of course the head shot is accurate, back and to the left.
My rationale for avoiding this issue is that it does not really advance the case. In my opinion at least. It leaves us in the land of "microanalysis". With all the books and advances since ARRB we need to get beyond petty arguments. After this anniversary I feel this case will fall away into the abyss. The ptb have a serious game plan with many avenues of lies.
What are we doing to conteract that?
Dawn
Technical Hurdles Suggest Extensive Z-Film Alteration Highly Unlikely - Tracy Riddle - 30-08-2013
Anyone who has reported seeing another Z-film since 1992 may very well be watching something pieced together from footage/outtakes of the Dealey Plaza sequence in Stone's JFK. Some stills and clips I've seen from it have fooled even me. Just something to consider.
Technical Hurdles Suggest Extensive Z-Film Alteration Highly Unlikely - Charles Drago - 30-08-2013
Tracy Riddle Wrote:Anyone who has reported seeing another Z-film since 1992 may very well be watching something pieced together from footage/outtakes of the Dealey Plaza sequence in Stone's JFK. Some stills and clips I've seen from it have fooled even me. Just something to consider.
I may be wrong, but at least one of the alternate Z-film viewings took place long before JFK was a spark in Stone's cerebral cortex.
Technical Hurdles Suggest Extensive Z-Film Alteration Highly Unlikely - Dawn Meredith - 30-08-2013
John Mooney Wrote:Indeed it IS their job. Make critics of the official story look as insane as possible...We saw the same thing with the Boston bombings with all the sites claiming the blood was fake, that no one lost limbs.Tracy Riddle Wrote:Over on the 9/11 side, they seem to think that every bit of photographic footage from that day is faked. Seriously? These kinds of extreme, absolutist positions only serve to discredit the whole critical community and drive ordinary people towards the official story.
I think it's their job.
Seriously.
I have plenty of good questions about 9/11 (we probably all do) but I got sick of debating with no-planers and people pushing "September Clues".
They drowned the 9/11 truth movement with crap.
Same as the Apollo Moon hoax.. designed to make us all look stupid by association.. because "all conspiracy theorists are crazy".
Mission accomplished.
Utter garbage.
Dawn
Technical Hurdles Suggest Extensive Z-Film Alteration Highly Unlikely - Peter Lemkin - 30-08-2013
Charles Drago Wrote:Tracy Riddle Wrote:Anyone who has reported seeing another Z-film since 1992 may very well be watching something pieced together from footage/outtakes of the Dealey Plaza sequence in Stone's JFK. Some stills and clips I've seen from it have fooled even me. Just something to consider.
I may be wrong, but at least one of the alternate Z-film viewings took place long before JFK was a spark in Stone's cerebral cortex.
Make that a 'Roger!'...you're not wrong.
Technical Hurdles Suggest Extensive Z-Film Alteration Highly Unlikely - Tracy Riddle - 30-08-2013
Peter Lemkin Wrote:Charles Drago Wrote:Tracy Riddle Wrote:Anyone who has reported seeing another Z-film since 1992 may very well be watching something pieced together from footage/outtakes of the Dealey Plaza sequence in Stone's JFK. Some stills and clips I've seen from it have fooled even me. Just something to consider.
I may be wrong, but at least one of the alternate Z-film viewings took place long before JFK was a spark in Stone's cerebral cortex.
Make that a 'Roger!'...you're not wrong.
Which is why I added the clarification "since 1992"...
Dawn, I agree that a lot of the things we argue about in our little echo chamber are causing us to lose sight of the bigger picture.
Technical Hurdles Suggest Extensive Z-Film Alteration Highly Unlikely - Charles Drago - 30-08-2013
Tracy Riddle Wrote:Peter Lemkin Wrote:Charles Drago Wrote:Tracy Riddle Wrote:Anyone who has reported seeing another Z-film since 1992 may very well be watching something pieced together from footage/outtakes of the Dealey Plaza sequence in Stone's JFK. Some stills and clips I've seen from it have fooled even me. Just something to consider.
I may be wrong, but at least one of the alternate Z-film viewings took place long before JFK was a spark in Stone's cerebral cortex.
Make that a 'Roger!'...you're not wrong.
Which is why I added the clarification "since 1992"...
Dawn, I agree that a lot of the things we argue about in our little echo chamber are causing us to lose sight of the bigger picture.
Which is why I politely and with a soupcon of humor attempted to make clear that "at least one of the alternate Z-film viewings" happened prior to the date you cited.
No argument. Just a simple clarification.
Like the one you've just read.
For your information, such a scenario as you suggest was the central plot element of an episode of the long-vanished and widely respected American TV comedy The John Larroquette Show.
Technical Hurdles Suggest Extensive Z-Film Alteration Highly Unlikely - Chris Davidson - 30-08-2013
These are two gifs (same footage, one slowed down). Jackie and Clint are mostly stabilized in both clips.
http://www.mejuba.com/albums/jfkass/112938/8849708/show/original
http://www.mejuba.com/albums/jfkass/112938/8849707/show/original
They sync Nix and Zapruder.
Sync points are Clint's right leg at the beginning and Jackie's elbow contacting the limo trunk (look closely/repeatedly through the bush) at the end.
The FBI determined Z's camera running at 18.3FPS and Nix at 18.5FPS, basically a 1-1 ratio.
I stopped it at Z411, because from that point to where Jackie sits/slides down in her seat is 6 frames or 1/3 second.
She is much to elevated (Nix view) with her elbow braced on the trunk, to accomplish the slide in 1/3 second. imo
That particular Nix segment ends there.
chris
Technical Hurdles Suggest Extensive Z-Film Alteration Highly Unlikely - Jan Klimkowski - 30-08-2013
Chris Davidson Wrote:These are two gifs (same footage, one slowed down). Jackie and Clint are mostly stabilized in both clips.
http://www.mejuba.com/albums/jfkass/112938/8849708/show/original
http://www.mejuba.com/albums/jfkass/112938/8849707/show/original
They sync Nix and Zapruder.
Sync points are Clint's right leg at the beginning and Jackie's elbow contacting the limo trunk (look closely/repeatedly through the bush) at the end.
The FBI determined Z's camera running at 18.3FPS and Nix at 18.5FPS, basically a 1-1 ratio.
I stopped it at Z411, because from that point to where Jackie sits/slides down in her seat is 6 frames or 1/3 second.
She is much to elevated (Nix view) with her elbow braced on the trunk, to accomplish the slide in 1/3 second. imo
That particular Nix segment ends there.
chris
Chris - fascinating and provocative.
OK - just for absolute clarity, can you confirm that I am undersanding certain points correctly.
1) When you write that these are "sync Nix and Zapruder", you are stating that you have lined up the starting point of both clips on a moment in real time and space in Dallas.
2) In this case, the starting point in real time and space in Dallas is "Clint's right leg at the beginning and Jackie's elbow contacting the limo trunk".
3) From this sync point onwards, we are watching the same snatch of space and time from two different vantage points: those of Zapruder and of Nix.
4) The FBI state the running speeds of the two cameras are nearly identical, so the movement of Jackie and Clint should be almost identical in time and space, with the only difference being the vantage point.
5) Your conclusion is: "She is much to elevated (Nix view) with her elbow braced on the trunk, to accomplish the slide in 1/3 second. imo".
Am I understanding this correctly?
If so, is the logical conclusion that the movements of Jackie across the back of the car in Dallas time and space occur more rapidly in Zapruder than in Nix?
In other words, if points 1 to 5 are true, then either Nix or Zapruder has been altered?
Technical Hurdles Suggest Extensive Z-Film Alteration Highly Unlikely - David Healy - 30-08-2013
Tracy Riddle Wrote:Anyone who has reported seeing another Z-film since 1992 may very well be watching something pieced together from footage/outtakes of the Dealey Plaza sequence in Stone's JFK. Some stills and clips I've seen from it have fooled even me. Just something to consider.
Indeed, that WAS considered, way back in JFKAssassination Research days. Jack White I believe led the charge (2000-2005), the film clips/frame grabs that made the circuit were also housed in the photo forum for future reference. I recall that some of the clips circulating the net (identified as out-takes and rushes for JFK, the movie) some were of the black and white variety. The clips fooled no one at JFKReseach.
If memory serves me Jack White and David Lifton acted as consultants to OliverStone's, JFK production team.