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+--- Thread: The Battle for Novorussiya (/thread-13559.html)
The Battle for Novorussiya - Lauren Johnson - 17-02-2015
The resistance in the Debalstevo cauldron is collapsing. 90% of Debalstevo is in NAF control with small groups of Ukrops running from house to house and beginning to surrender with complete loss of command and control.
From a Tweet:
Quote:Antimaidan English @ AntimaidanENG 24m24 minutes ago
BREAKING 2 FULL REGIMENTS UKIES TRY TO Reinforce # [B]Debaltseve 3 h ago at this moment they are all DEAD they had ...http: // fb.me/1xnRs6d28
[/B]
Still many troops SW of Debalstevo who appear to be abandoning their positions and attempting to fight their way out.
EDIT: Zackarchenko was lightly wounded by shrapnel in Debalstevo and is reported OK.
The Battle for Novorussiya - Paul Rigby - 17-02-2015
God bless South Front:http://youtu.be/po_N9snzEuA
[video=youtube_share;po_N9snzEuA]http://youtu.be/po_N9snzEuA[/video]
The Battle for Novorussiya - Paul Rigby - 17-02-2015
Horrific Images Capture The Sheer Brutality Of War In Ukraine
Photographer Max Avdeev embeds with the rebel fighters known as the First Slavyansk Brigade in Logvinove, Ukraine, to capture the horrific sights of conflict for BuzzFeed News. Warning: Several of the images in this gallery are NSFW and extremely graphic.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/avdeev/horrific-images-capture-the-sheer-brutality-of-ukraine-war?bftw&utm_term=4ldqpgc#.ha79aDRXE4
The Battle for Novorussiya - Lauren Johnson - 19-02-2015
The cauldron is collapsing. Debalstevo taken as well as most other population centers taken or abandoned.
Reports of some civilians hiding in basements slaughtered by departing punishers.
One report that one of Maidan snipers was captured.
Some soldiers have actually made it out alive on foot. Others have fled south with not much future for them there.
Many reports of soldiers having no idea they were surrounded.
Most significantly, Poroshenko has appealed for EU peacekeepers to come in. Let's just say there is a lot of despair on Twitter on this prospect. It remains to be seen how this plays. They see a repeat of the Serbia situation, except this time, on the border with Russia.
The Battle for Novorussiya - Lauren Johnson - 19-02-2015
By Roman Nesterenko
[URL="http://linkis.com/blogspot.com/NneBc"]Translated from Russian by J.Hawk (Fort Russ)
[/URL]
Our source in Artemovsk says that the remnants of Ukrainian forces which "broke out" of Debaltsevo total only 1000 soldiers, and a third of them are wounded and injured. Moreover, they are on the verge of mutiny. UAF troops claim they were betrayed, and hold Poroshenko personally responsible.
The "breakout" tragedy unfolded as follows:
On February 17[SUP]th[/SUP] the 128[SUP]th[/SUP] Transcarpathian Mountain Infantry Brigade commander Colonel Sergey Shaptalo started negotiations with commanders of DPR and LPR units attacking Debaltsevo. At the time Shaptalo was the most senior UAF officer left in the cauldron, as the entire Sector S HQ had fled a week earlier. UAF troops report that Shaptalo made an agreement that the 128[SUP]th[/SUP]Brigade will be allowed to leave with trucks and small arms, but just as they were going to withdraw, under pressure from Kiev, Shaptalo tried to form an armored vehicle column as well. So therefore the HQ column and half the brigade's troops came out without a snag, but the second and third columns, which contained armored vehicles, the "separatists" shot to bits.
The departure of the 128[SUP]th[/SUP] Brigade means that LPR and DPR have practically eliminated the cauldron due to the breach in its defenses. LPR/DPR was able to take the well fortified Olkhovatka without a fight, where the UAF abandoned dozens of armored vehicles and much artillery. UAF troops who made it to Artemovsk say that after their departure there were still about 3000 UAF troops left in the cauldron, who more than likely surrendered. Another 300 troops surrendered on their own accord during the march from Debaltsevo to Artemovsk.
The moral state of UAF troops who "broke out" of Debaltsevo and are now in Artemovsk is very low. Poroshenko's arrival in Artemovsk only added fuel to the fire, when he quickly took a few photos with the spec ops troops (who came out with the HQ column) and then gave a speech on how the wise UAF commanders saved its troops from the "Debaltsevo salient."
Ordinary troops did not take this speech very well, since they were being constantly lied to over the course of last several weeks. Nobody told them they were surrounded, they were starved for a week and a half, their own headquarters abandoned them and, as a final indignity, the command violated the agreement it had with DPR/LPR so as to preserve Poroshenko's image, even though it led to extremely heavy personnel losses. Artemovsk hospitals are full of wounded, they brought about 100 dead soldiers with them, and one can't even estimate how many dead had to be left behind. They mention various numbers, from 150 to a 1000.
The most popular figure among the troops is now Semen Semenchenko because he is the only one "who tells the truth." Troops are marauding, commanders are told to go to hell, there is a story that makes the rounds that yesterday deserters killed members of the Ukrainian Security Service on the road to Kramatorsk.
It's possible that such attitudes will spell the end of the UAF as an organized fighting force.
J.Hawk's Comment: As I wrote earlier, for the life of me I can't figure out why Poroshenko did not make some sort of a "Dunkirk speech". Whom is he trying to fool? Does he really not know? He is either out of touch with reality or his political instincts non-existent. Though, come to think of it, these qualities are not mutually exclusive.
The Battle for Novorussiya - Paul Rigby - 19-02-2015
German newspaper BILD gets inside US-NATO-Nuland planning session
http://fortruss.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/german-newspaper-bild-gets-inside-us.html
Das Bild, published February 19, 2015: http://www.bild.de/politik/inland/muenchner-sicherheitskonferenz/was-us-politiker-ueber-deutschland-denken-39678276.bild.html
The Bild headline:"Cold Feet" "Bullshit," "Angst"
What US Politicians REALLY think about the Germans in the Ukraine-crisis
Quote:February 19, 2015
Translated from German by Tom Winter
Munich While a bloody war rages in eastern Ukraine, the next dangerous conflict is breaking out in the Security Conference, a diplomatic battle of nerves centered on the question whether the West ought to supply armaments to the regime in Kiev. The opponents are actually allies: the USA against Europe, and Germany in particular.
Behind the soundproof doors of the conference room in the Bayerischer Hof hotel, the Americans speak about Germans in rather derogatory terms.
Friday evening a bit after 7 p.m. on the sixth floor of the luxury hotel, according to BILD's sources, American four-star generals, diplomats, and high-ranking US politicians held a frank discussion in a "briefing room," and held forth about the Germans.
"Defeatist," is what a US Senator called German Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen, because she no longer believes in a Kiev victory. The phrase "German defeatist," according to our information, was often heard in the room
Obama's top diplomat for Europe, Victoria Nuland, called the Chancellor's trip to Putin, "Merkel's Moscow thing." Another US Foreign office type spoke of the Europeans' "Moscow bullshit."
And US Senator John McCain talked himself into a rage: "History shows us that dictators always take more, whenever you let them. They can't be brought back from their brutal behavior when you fly to Moscow to them, just like someone once flew to this city."
Merkel's diplomatic initiative in the Ukraine crisis stands at the center of American anger. Reason: the Americans don't believe that Putin can't be made to back off without a massive push, and the Europeans have no wish to build up a greater push.
"They're afraid of damage to their economy, counter-sanctions from Russia," said Nuland. Another US politician: "It's painful to see that our NATO partners are getting cold feet."
Obama's close confidante Victoria Nuland is the one who set the tone for her American colleagues at the prelude to the evening: "We can fight against the Europeans, we can fight with rhetoric against them."
Several US politicians appeared to have hesitations about weapons supply to Kiev. One asked whether it was only a tactic, a false promise to get the Europeans to put more pressure on Putin. "No, it's not a tactic to push the Europeans," answered Nuland dryly. "We're not going to sent any four divisions into Ukraine, as the Europeans fear. It's only a relatively moderate delivery of anti-tank weapons."
"But what will we tell the Europeans if we really decide on delivering weapons," asked one Congressman. "What's our story then?"
NATO Commander General Philip Breedlove was there. He answered: "We're not on a footing to deliver so many weapons they could defeat Russia [!!! tr] That's not our goal. But we have to try to raise the battlefield cost for Putin, to slow down the whole problem, so sanctions and other measures can take hold."
Again top diplomat Nuland, who speaks fluent Russian and served as Dick Cheney's security advisor took it up: "I'd strongly urge you to use the phrase defensive systems' that we would deliver to oppose Putin's offensive systems.'"
General Breedlove clarified for the US politicians, what an actual arms delivery would look like. "Russian artillery is by far what kills most Ukrainian soldiers, so a system is needed that can localize the source of fire and repress it. Ukrainian communications are disrupted or completely swamped, so they need uninterceptible communications gear. Then I won't talk about any anti-tank rockets, but we are seeing massive supply convoys from Russia into Ukraine. The Ukrainians need the capability to shut off this transport. And then I would add some small tactical drones."
NB: These planned weapons and systems are so technically demanding that US soldiers would probably have to train the Ukrainian army. Thus the USA would be intervening with their own troops in the conflict.
There hasn't been this much conflict between Europeans and Americans since the Munich Security conference of 2003, shortly before the beginning of the Iraq war. In the morning Chancellor Angela Merkel travels to Washington to US President Barak Obama. The two have much to discuss…
Translator's note: This material is visible throughout the German press, and it all comes back to this article in Das Bild, and the source for this Bild article had to be German Intelligence. The German press is full of praise for their peace-making Chancellor, and apparently the Chancellory is committed to making Minsk II a success. Further, this item removes, and was doubtless intended to remove, any doubts about NATO being a US instrument. Also to be noted here is a complete zeroing out of the five or six million Russian-speaking inhabitants of Lugansk and Donetsk; they don't exist, it's just Russia.
The Battle for Novorussiya - Magda Hassan - 19-02-2015
Lauren Johnson Wrote:Ordinary troops did not take this speech very well, since they were being constantly lied to over the course of last several weeks.
The whole thing is a big lie.
The Battle for Novorussiya - Lauren Johnson - 19-02-2015
Magda Hassan Wrote:Lauren Johnson Wrote:Ordinary troops did not take this speech very well, since they were being constantly lied to over the course of last several weeks.
The whole thing is a big lie.
What are you saying here? Both sides are involved in a big lie? In this case, I think there are good guys and bad guys.
The Battle for Novorussiya - Magda Hassan - 19-02-2015
Lauren Johnson Wrote:Magda Hassan Wrote:Lauren Johnson Wrote:Ordinary troops did not take this speech very well, since they were being constantly lied to over the course of last several weeks.
The whole thing is a big lie.
What are you saying here? Both sides are involved in a big lie? In this case, I think there are good guys and bad guys.
The whole Maidan bullshit and the whole 'Russia is invading' bull shit. So much bull shit in the MSM. Definitely good guys and bad guys. Bad guys are the fascists in Kiev and in the Azov and other foreign mercenary battalions and the western media for the most part. The good guys are the people of eastern Ukraine and their supporters resisting the empire of chaos and death being forced upon them.
The Battle for Novorussiya - Lauren Johnson - 19-02-2015
Magda Hassan Wrote:Lauren Johnson Wrote:Magda Hassan Wrote:Lauren Johnson Wrote:Ordinary troops did not take this speech very well, since they were being constantly lied to over the course of last several weeks.
The whole thing is a big lie.
What are you saying here? Both sides are involved in a big lie? In this case, I think there are good guys and bad guys.
The whole Maidan bullshit and the whole 'Russia is invading' bull shit. So much bull shit in the MSM. Definitely good guys and bad guys. Bad guys are the fascists in Kiev and in the Azov and other foreign mercenary battalions and the western media for the most part. The good guys are the people of eastern Ukraine and their supporters resisting the empire of chaos and death being forced upon them.
No postmodern BS from you! ::commie:::
: