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+--- Thread: The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? (/Thread-The-Magic-Tonsillectomy-or-Armstrong-s-Voodoo-Science)
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Dawn Meredith - 06-04-2014
Jim Hargrove Wrote:Megathanks to all for examining the topic of Lee Oswald's tonsillectomy in such excruciating detail.
After reading all the posts, I've decided to put the tonsillectomy issue back up on the Harvey and Lee website, but in deference to Greg Parker's Herculean efforts here, I'm going to downgrade the issue from "magic" to... uh... just "fascinating" or something.
And now, surely, it is time to heed the numerous requests from our long-suffering hosts to move on to another topic. Assuming there will be no more insults hurled at Mr. Armstrong below, I'm outta this thread. Thanks again.
Jim
Jim:
I have a new computer as of Friday and cannot reply to email received prior to midnight on Friday. Will you email John and ask him to email me so that I have his email. (He emailed something to me Friday and I cannot reply). Just one word. Can't import old email to this one. Such a hassle. Hate microsoft for doing this. Sorry all, should have PM'd Jim. But I try not to use that function.
Merci
Dawn
ps Glad to see you are making revisions on that area of the site. Like you I hope the sniping against our good friend JA ceases.
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Jim Hargrove - 06-04-2014
Done.
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Greg R Parker - 06-04-2014
Jim Hargrove Wrote:Megathanks to all for examining the topic of Lee Oswald's tonsillectomy in such excruciating detail.
After reading all the posts, I've decided to put the tonsillectomy issue back up on the Harvey and Lee website, but in deference to Greg Parker's Herculean efforts here, I'm going to downgrade the issue from "magic" to... uh... just "fascinating" or something.
And now, surely, it is time to heed the numerous requests from our long-suffering hosts to move on to another topic. Assuming there will be no more insults hurled at Mr. Armstrong below, I'm outta this thread. Thanks again.
Jim
You need to do more than tone down the hyperbole.
You need to actually address the main thing that has come out here. That is that tonsils were not fully removed in 1945, and tonsils keep growing until age 8. Those two things combined made it a great deal more common then than now for tonsils to regrow.
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Jim Hargrove - 07-04-2014
[QUOTE=Greg R Parker;85548
You need to do more than tone down the hyperbole.
You need to actually address the main thing that has come out here. That is that tonsils were not fully removed in 1945, and tonsils keep growing until age 8. Those two things combined made it a great deal more common then than now for tonsils to regrow.[/QUOTE]
This will never end, will it?
My tonsils were removed in 1947 before my first birthday. They have not grown back and I have never been diagnosed with tonsillitis. Ditto for my brother a few years later.
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Greg R Parker - 07-04-2014
Jim Hargrove Wrote:[QUOTE=Greg R Parker;85548
You need to do more than tone down the hyperbole.
You need to actually address the main thing that has come out here. That is that tonsils were not fully removed in 1945, and tonsils keep growing until age 8. Those two things combined made it a great deal more common then than now for tonsils to regrow.
This will never end, will it?
My tonsils were removed in 1947 before my first birthday. They have not grown back and I have never been diagnosed with tonsillitis. Ditto for my brother a few years later.[/QUOTE]
You would have a point, Jim, if I had said in EVERY SINGLE CASE they would grow back under the conditions I outlined. But I didn't say that, and the fact remains that it WAS more likely to happen back then than now. That is not my opinion. I posted the source. If you can refute the source, please do. A personal anecdote is hardly suffice, and would make DVP blush if attempting to get it past anyone.
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Jim Hargrove - 07-04-2014
Greg R Parker Wrote:You would have a point, Jim, if I had said in EVERY SINGLE CASE they would grow back under the conditions I outlined. But I didn't say that, and the fact remains that it WAS more likely to happen back then than now. That is not my opinion. I posted the source. If you can refute the source, please do. A personal anecdote is hardly suffice, and would make DVP blush if attempting to get it past anyone.
OK, fine. From Australian Doctor (my emphasis):
The surgical removal of tonsils is often seen as a last resort for patients suffering recurrent or severe bouts of tonsillitis. For most, a tonsillectomy is the answer to the problem. But in rare cases, regrowth and reinfection of the tonsil tissue can occur.
If this were the only evidence, perhaps we could accept it as a rare case. But there is also the vanishing mastoidectomy scar and the downright magically disappearing gunshot wound. This is becoming rare to a rather miraculous degree.The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Greg R Parker - 07-04-2014
Jim Hargrove Wrote:Greg R Parker Wrote:You would have a point, Jim, if I had said in EVERY SINGLE CASE they would grow back under the conditions I outlined. But I didn't say that, and the fact remains that it WAS more likely to happen back then than now. That is not my opinion. I posted the source. If you can refute the source, please do. A personal anecdote is hardly suffice, and would make DVP blush if attempting to get it past anyone.
OK, fine. From Australian Doctor (my emphasis):
The surgical removal of tonsils is often seen as a last resort for patients suffering recurrent or severe bouts of tonsillitis. For most, a tonsillectomy is the answer to the problem. But in rare cases, regrowth and reinfection of the tonsil tissue can occur.If this were the only evidence, perhaps we could accept it as a rare case. But there is also the vanishing mastoidectomy scar and the downright magically disappearing gunshot wound. This is becoming rare to a rather miraculous degree.
Jim, what you have posted doesn't address the issue. This doctor is referring to how it is now - not how it was back in the day.
I will repost this for about the third time:
There are certain factors that may make your tonsils more likely to grow back, such as if they are removed before the period of time when they would normally be growing has passed. Under normal circumstances, tonsils and adenoids tend to grow at a fairly steady rate until a person is about 8 years of age.
If you know someone whose tonsils have grown back, they probably had their tonsils removed many years ago. There was a period of time when the method used to remove the tonsils made it more likely for them to grow back. This method, which involved leaving the outer portion of the tonsils intact in order to reduce pain and decrease the risk of bleeding, is no longer used.
http://ent.about.com/od/entdisorderssu/f/Can-Your-Tonsils-Grow-Back-After-A-Tonsillectomy.htm
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Jim Hargrove - 07-04-2014
Greg R Parker;85559
Jim, what you have posted doesn't address the issue. This doctor is referring to how it is now - not how it was back in the day.
I will repost this for about the third time:
There are certain factors that may make your tonsils more likely to grow back, such as if they are removed before the period of time when they would normally be growing has passed. Under normal circumstances, tonsils and adenoids tend to grow at a fairly steady rate until a person is about 8 years of age.
If you know someone whose tonsils have grown back, they probably had their tonsils removed many years ago. There was a period of time when the method used to remove the tonsils made it more likely for them to grow back. This method, which involved leaving the outer portion of the tonsils intact in order to reduce pain and decrease the risk of bleeding, is no longer used.
[URL Wrote:http://ent.about.com/od/entdisorderssu/f/Can-Your-Tonsils-Grow-Back-After-A-Tonsillectomy.htm[/URL]
From Wikipedia:
By 1897, it became more common to perform complete rather than partial removal of the tonsil after American physician Ballenger noted that partial removal failed to completely alleviate symptoms in a majority of cases. His results using a technique involving removal of the tonsil with a scalpel and forceps were much better than partial removal; tonsillectomy using the guillotine eventually fell out of favor in America.
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Jim Hargrove - 07-04-2014
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Greg R Parker - 07-04-2014
Here's more from wiki which backs up what I previously posted.
Surgical procedure[edit]
For the past 50 years at least, tonsillectomy has been performed by dissecting the tonsil from its surrounding fascia, a so-called 'total', or extra-capsular tonsillectomy. Problems include pain and bleeding leading to a recent resurgence in interest in sub-total tonsillectomy or 'tonsillotomy' which was popular 60100 years ago, in an effort to reduce these complications.