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+--- Thread: The Chicago Plot: A Hypothesis (/Thread-The-Chicago-Plot-A-Hypothesis)
The Chicago Plot: A Hypothesis - Tracy Riddle - 26-06-2013
While I'm reading through this thread, here is Edwin Black's original article, another article and a mugshot of Vallee:
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/V%20Disk/Vallee%20Thomas%20Arthur/Item%2005.pdf
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/V%20Disk/Vallee%20Thomas%20Arthur/Item%2013.pdf
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/V%20Disk/Vallee%20Thomas%20Arthur/Item%2016.pdf
The Chicago Plot: A Hypothesis - Jim DiEugenio - 26-06-2013
I am rereading Bolden's book.
God, what they did to this guy. As bad as what happened to Nagell and Garrison.
I mean what a good witness he would have been. If you read the book, its pretty clear they did not like the fact that JFK really liked him. There is that one scene where Kennedy has the kitchen help especially serve him lunch while he is on his boat.
I think its from there that they understood that if something went wrong with JFK, he would be a weak link.
Bolden says there were only about 300 or so agents at the time he joined. Let us say it went up to maybe 400 or 500 by the time of the WC. Is it not odd that the SS did as many interviews post assassination as they did?Proportionally, its kind of out of whack versus the number of agents the FBI had. I don't want to read too much into that, but I think its notable.
And what he says then about the guy tailing him in Washington. I think that some of the book is written retroactively. In other words, he understood things after he was arrested that he did not before he was arrested. And its written in that manner, incorporating what he learned after the fact.
Another comment, his professionalism is in such stark contrast to these other jerks. I mean they hand him an AR 15, and he says he never worked with one before. They tell him to fake it. It is no wonder that a jerk like Elmer Moore got hired. And then was one of the prime movers of the cover up.
Rereading his book, it makes an argument for extreme criminal negligence. What he is saying, in one spot literally, is that any perpetrator could see that these guys were a bunch of yahoos and racist pigs who did not give a damn about JFK. They were a bunch of hard drinkers and womanizers. (Which, of course, makes it interesting that Hersh enlisted them for his trashy book.) All that would have been necessary is to have seen how poorly they reacted to previous attempts to be able to predict you could get away with a real one.
I think this jibes with Drago's hypothesis.
I am more convinced now that his book, and the limited exposure he got, was the real reason for the McCubbin book. It exposes them from the inside.
The Chicago Plot: A Hypothesis - Tracy Riddle - 26-06-2013
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:CD:
Point 1: What I meant about Vallee being in some ways an even better patsy than Oswald was his head injury which his sister told DOuglass about. This allowed for the whole disability angle to be exploited. See, this was what was lacking with Oswald. THat is why Shaw and Ferrie were sent up to Clinton-Jackson to try and get his file into the mental hospital. But the problem is, too many people saw them at the voter registration drive.
Maybe it's just my little hobby horse that I can't let go of, but I think the whole point of picking Oswald as the patsy was to blame Castro and the KGB for the assassination (Operation Northwoods). This clearly wouldn't work with Vallee and his well-documented far-right politics. If they wanted to pick a "lone psycho," maybe TSBD employee Jack Dougherty would have been better. No, the plotters weren't setting up a nut; they were setting up an agent of the Communist Conspiracy.
The Chicago Plot: A Hypothesis - Charles Drago - 26-06-2013
Tracy Riddle Wrote:Maybe it's just my little hobby horse that I can't let go of, but I think the whole point of picking Oswald as the patsy was to blame Castro and the KGB for the assassination (Operation Northwoods). This clearly wouldn't work with Vallee and his well-documented far-right politics. If they wanted to pick a "lone psycho," maybe TSBD employee Jack Dougherty would have been better. No, the plotters weren't setting up a nut; they were setting up an agent of the Communist Conspiracy.
Two points, Tracy, which I'd like you to consider:
1. While I agree with you that LHO was patsied to appear to be a pro-Castro/Soviet hit man, the assassination's Sponsors were NOT seeking to provoke a retaliatory invasion of Cuba and/or a nuclear strike on the U.S.S.R.
Their point was not to end the power-preserving, profit-generating game (aka the Cold War), but to prolong it.
Toward this end, they set out to promote cooperation with the cover-up among non-conspiratorial political, military, intelligence, and law enforcement officials who, aware of the too-obvious conspiracy, nonetheless would turn blind eyes toward it rather than risk WW III.
2. The Chicago "plot" is just one of many immensely significant doppelgangers that permeate the JFK conspiracy, including the cover-up. The alleged rabid right wing politics of patsy Vallee are best seen as the inverted image of LHO's alleged rabid left wing politics.
If I may reiterate the scenario that drives my hypothesis: In the months, weeks, and days leading up to 11/22, the inevitable and anticipated (by conspiracy Facilitators) leaks in the Dallas conspiracy have dripped all the way to the White House. In the aggregate, they indicate that a political extremist of a certain age and military background has been brought into a plot to kill the president. The deed will be done by one or more rifle teams. They may be pro- or anti-Castro Cubans, the patsy may be boasting pro- or anti-Castro sentiments. The patsy will be shooting from an office building overlooking the presidential motorcade route through a major city on JFK's upcoming schedule.
And then Chicago is blown. A patsy and a rifle team are taken off the board (one way or another) as they prepared to kill JFK during a Chicago motorcade ... etc.
See ... It could have been Chicago OR Dallas, Mr. President. But in fact it was Chicago, and we've taken care of it.
Relax, everybody. Relax.
The LHO-Vallee similarities are superficial, but sufficient for the purpose of conflation. So too the venues and tactical similarities of the attacks.
The Chicago "plot" was a feint.
IMLANHO (In my learned and not humble opinion!)
By the way: Please excuse the long delays in reading my responses to yours and others' posts. Circumstances, circumstances ...
The Chicago Plot: A Hypothesis - Jan Klimkowski - 26-06-2013
Charles Drago Wrote:Tracy Riddle Wrote:Maybe it's just my little hobby horse that I can't let go of, but I think the whole point of picking Oswald as the patsy was to blame Castro and the KGB for the assassination (Operation Northwoods). This clearly wouldn't work with Vallee and his well-documented far-right politics. If they wanted to pick a "lone psycho," maybe TSBD employee Jack Dougherty would have been better. No, the plotters weren't setting up a nut; they were setting up an agent of the Communist Conspiracy.
Two points, Tracy, which I'd like you to consider:
1. While I agree with you that LHO was patsied to appear to be a pro-Castro/Soviet hit man, the assassination's Sponsors were NOT seeking to provoke a retaliatory invasion of Cuba and/or a nuclear strike on the U.S.S.R.
Their point was not to end the power-preserving, profit-generating game (aka the Cold War), but to prolong it.
Toward this end, they set out to promote cooperation with the cover-up among non-conspiratorial political, military, intelligence, and law enforcement officials who, aware of the too-obvious conspiracy, nonetheless would turn blind eyes toward it rather than risk WW III.
2. The Chicago "plot" is just one of many immensely significant doppelgangers that permeate the JFK conspiracy, including the cover-up. The alleged rabid right wing politics of patsy Vallee are best seen as the inverted image of LHO's alleged rabid left wing politics.
If I may reiterate the scenario that drives my hypothesis: In the months, weeks, and days leading up to 11/22, the inevitable and anticipated (by conspiracy Facilitators) leaks in the Dallas conspiracy have dripped all the way to the White House. In the aggregate, they indicate that a political extremist of a certain age and military background has been brought into a plot to kill the president. The deed will be done by one or more rifle teams. They may be pro- or anti-Castro Cubans, the patsy may be boasting pro- or anti-Castro sentiments. The patsy will be shooting from an office building overlooking the presidential motorcade route through a major city on JFK's upcoming schedule.
And then Chicago is blown. A patsy and a rifle team are taken off the board (one way or another) as they prepared to kill JFK during a Chicago motorcade ... etc.
See ... It could have been Chicago OR Dallas, Mr. President. But in fact it was Chicago, and we've taken care of it.
Relax, everybody. Relax.
The LHO-Vallee similarities are superficial, but sufficient for the purpose of conflation. So too the venues and tactical similarities of the attacks.
The Chicago "plot" was a feint.
IMLANHO (In my learned and not humble opinion!)
By the way: Please excuse the long delays in reading my responses to yours and others' posts. Circumstances, circumstances ...
Charles - thank you for that fresh iteration of the hypothesis.
I will throw some simple, tangential, observations into the mix.
Firstly, what we call reality is a flux of events, which can be observed and interpreted in many different ways. I believe the Sponsors built this fact of nature into their schemes, and intended to exploit it after the deed was done.
Secondly, classic detective fiction such as Conan Doyle or Agatha Christie creates an expectation of a clear narrative solution to a crime. All will be revealed. The reader, the audience, is satisfied, even when the plot solution is a cheat, because of the clear, simple, narrative solution. Again this is perfect ground for the Sponsors to exploit.
The core meaning of the assassination of JFK lies not in who did it, or precisely how.
The core meaning of the assassination of JFK is the ritual public slaughter of the King, to demonstrate the King's impotence when confronted with true Power.
The Chicago Plot: A Hypothesis - Tracy Riddle - 26-06-2013
I suppose like the protagonist in Kafka's "The Castle," we will never really know for sure.
And in other news...
I would like to suggest that everyone use Google Street View to check out addresses related to the assassination. Stand in the middle of the intersection, look around, gaze up at the tall buildings.
625 W. Jackson, Chicago - Thomas Vallee's workplace
905 North Florida Ave, Tampa - Floridan Hotel, supposedly where a patsy was to be set up as the motorcade drove past it, west on Cass St.
The Chicago Plot: A Hypothesis - Albert Rossi - 26-06-2013
Tracy Riddle Wrote:I suppose like the protagonist in Kafka's "The Castle," we will never really know for sure.
And in other news...
I would like to suggest that everyone use Google Street View to check out addresses related to the assassination. Stand in the middle of the intersection, look around, gaze up at the tall buildings.
625 W. Jackson, Chicago - Thomas Vallee's workplace
905 North Florida Ave, Tampa - Floridan Hotel, supposedly where a patsy was to be set up as the motorcade drove past it, west on Cass St.
Perhaps one "tactical" difference. No 120° hairpin turns there, leading into a three-sided ambush ...
The Chicago Plot: A Hypothesis - Gordon Gray - 26-06-2013
I have to wonder how these sponsors managed to get on the same page as to the goals of this plot. Did they meet in some clandestine gentlemen's club per the film Executive Action? It seems to me that the sponsors were a disparate group with varying agenda's in relation to an assassination. Wall Street wanted to keep the Federal Reserve and most likely the business coming from a policy of opposing wars of liberation. Big Oil wanted to keep the Oil depletion allowance. Right wing extremists wanted an end to the Civil Rights movement and the commie Kennedy. The military right wanted Cuba and a confrontation with the Soviets because they believed they could wipe them out and end the cold war. The intelligence community wanted to oust Castro and stop the importation of wars of liberation in Latin America. The Mob wanted payback for Joe Kennedy's betrayal and back into Cuba for drugs prostitution and gambling interests. If they were all of one mind, why was Phillips still pushing the Oswald Mexico City thing even after the formation of the Warren Commission?
The Chicago Plot: A Hypothesis - Charles Drago - 26-06-2013
Gordon Gray Wrote:I have to wonder how these sponsors managed to get on the same page as to the goals of this plot. Did they meet in some clandestine gentlemen's club per the film Executive Action? It seems to me that the sponsors were a disparate group with varying agenda's in relation to an assassination. Wall Street wanted to keep the Federal Reserve and most likely the business coming from a policy of opposing wars of liberation. Big Oil wanted to keep the Oil depletion allowance. Right wing extremists wanted an end to the Civil Rights movement and the commie Kennedy. The military right wanted Cuba and a confrontation with the Soviets because they believed they could wipe them out and end the cold war. The intelligence community wanted to oust Castro and stop the importation of wars of liberation in Latin America. The Mob wanted payback for Joe Kennedy's betrayal and back into Cuba for drugs prostitution and gambling interests. If they were all of one mind, why was Phillips still pushing the Oswald Mexico City thing even after the formation of the Warren Commission?
In order to save inordinate amounts of time and angst, we should agree on some basic definitions. When I use the terms Sponsors, False Sponsors, Facilitators, and Mechanics, I do so within the context of what has come to be known as the Evica-Drago Model for the JFK conspiracy:
SPONSORS -- Those with the authority and motive to sanction the assassination and the connections to engage facilitating agents and systems. Among them in my opinion: the most powerful supra-national entities who were -- and are -- above Cold War and Clash of Civilization cosmetic differences.
FALSE SPONSORS -- Selected primarily from involved high-level FACILITATORS and otherwise uninvolved entities who logically might have come under suspicion. Among them in my opinion: LBJ, the CIA, the Mob, anti-Castro Cubans, Big Business, Big Oil, Castro, Khrushchev, etc.
FACILITATORS -- From the "princes" who directly and/or through buffers routinely interacted with and carried out the agendas of the SPONSORS and who created the plot in all its complexities, through high-level members of facilitating organizations, to mid- to low-level functionaries who performed the heavy lifting. Among them in my opinion: LBJ, James Angleton, Edward Lansdale, David Atlee Phillips, David Sanchez Morales, Lucien Conein, Gerald Patrick Hemming, "William Bishop" and other CIA officers and agents, Santos Trafficante, Johnny Rosselli, Jimmy Hoffa, certain Secret Service, FBI and military intelligence officers and agents, individuals intimately linked to Big Business and Big Oil, certain Dallas elected officials and members of the DPD, certain members of the print and broadcast media, certain heads of state, etc. etc. etc.
MECHANICS -- The gunmen and support personnel on-site who carried out the attack and escape-evade procedures. Among them in my opinion: possibly a team from Pakse Base, former Wermacht/SS sniper(s), etc. Think the most skilled hunters of humans on the planet.
If you'll agree to work within the context above, we can enjoy a most fruitful exchange, included in which would be my answer to your question posed above and reprinted here:
"If they were all of one mind, why was Phillips still pushing the Oswald Mexico City thing even after the formation of the Warren Commission?"
Looking forward to it.
The Chicago Plot: A Hypothesis - Charles Drago - 26-06-2013
Jan Klimkowski Wrote:Charles Drago Wrote:Tracy Riddle Wrote:Maybe it's just my little hobby horse that I can't let go of, but I think the whole point of picking Oswald as the patsy was to blame Castro and the KGB for the assassination (Operation Northwoods). This clearly wouldn't work with Vallee and his well-documented far-right politics. If they wanted to pick a "lone psycho," maybe TSBD employee Jack Dougherty would have been better. No, the plotters weren't setting up a nut; they were setting up an agent of the Communist Conspiracy.
Two points, Tracy, which I'd like you to consider:
1. While I agree with you that LHO was patsied to appear to be a pro-Castro/Soviet hit man, the assassination's Sponsors were NOT seeking to provoke a retaliatory invasion of Cuba and/or a nuclear strike on the U.S.S.R.
Their point was not to end the power-preserving, profit-generating game (aka the Cold War), but to prolong it.
Toward this end, they set out to promote cooperation with the cover-up among non-conspiratorial political, military, intelligence, and law enforcement officials who, aware of the too-obvious conspiracy, nonetheless would turn blind eyes toward it rather than risk WW III.
2. The Chicago "plot" is just one of many immensely significant doppelgangers that permeate the JFK conspiracy, including the cover-up. The alleged rabid right wing politics of patsy Vallee are best seen as the inverted image of LHO's alleged rabid left wing politics.
If I may reiterate the scenario that drives my hypothesis: In the months, weeks, and days leading up to 11/22, the inevitable and anticipated (by conspiracy Facilitators) leaks in the Dallas conspiracy have dripped all the way to the White House. In the aggregate, they indicate that a political extremist of a certain age and military background has been brought into a plot to kill the president. The deed will be done by one or more rifle teams. They may be pro- or anti-Castro Cubans, the patsy may be boasting pro- or anti-Castro sentiments. The patsy will be shooting from an office building overlooking the presidential motorcade route through a major city on JFK's upcoming schedule.
And then Chicago is blown. A patsy and a rifle team are taken off the board (one way or another) as they prepared to kill JFK during a Chicago motorcade ... etc.
See ... It could have been Chicago OR Dallas, Mr. President. But in fact it was Chicago, and we've taken care of it.
Relax, everybody. Relax.
The LHO-Vallee similarities are superficial, but sufficient for the purpose of conflation. So too the venues and tactical similarities of the attacks.
The Chicago "plot" was a feint.
IMLANHO (In my learned and not humble opinion!)
By the way: Please excuse the long delays in reading my responses to yours and others' posts. Circumstances, circumstances ...
Charles - thank you for that fresh iteration of the hypothesis.
I will throw some simple, tangential, observations into the mix.
Firstly, what we call reality is a flux of events, which can be observed and interpreted in many different ways. I believe the Sponsors built this fact of nature into their schemes, and intended to exploit it after the deed was done.
Secondly, classic detective fiction such as Conan Doyle or Agatha Christie creates an expectation of a clear narrative solution to a crime. All will be revealed. The reader, the audience, is satisfied, even when the plot solution is a cheat, because of the clear, simple, narrative solution. Again this is perfect ground for the Sponsors to exploit.
The core meaning of the assassination of JFK lies not in who did it, or precisely how.
The core meaning of the assassination of JFK is the ritual public slaughter of the King, to demonstrate the King's impotence when confronted with true Power.
Jan,
I am in complete agreement with your insightful comments above -- in particular your appreciation of "the core meaning of the assassination."
Such was and remains the prime agenda of the Sponsors -- those who wield "true power."
In the process of killing King John, they protected their generation's iteration on the ancient, overriding task: a method for control of the few by the many. That variation is known as the Cold War.
Ending the Cold War would have been anathema to the Sponsors. The Cold War would continue until its usefulness was outlived and a replacement was put in place. For now, let's refer to that replacement as the Clash of Cultures.