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+--- Thread: John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee (/thread-11170.html)
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Jim Hargrove - 17-09-2013
Karl Kinaski Wrote:There is prove for several Oswald Doppelgangers. This is old news.
KK
Praise the Lord, Karl, because you have shown me the LIGHT!
Here I was worried there might be something sinister about these two Oswalds, but you explain it's all merely about Doppelgangers. Why didn't I think of that????
Doppelgangers in the public school system ("a beautiful day for a Doppelganger"), Doppelgangers in the U.S. Marine Corps (home of "a few good Doppelgangers"), Doppelgangers at Bolton Ford, at the Texas Employment Commission, with and without valid Texas drivers licenses, meeting with Laura Kittrell, getting arrested by Charles Noto, escaping Dealey Plaza in a Nash Rambler station wagon, sitting in the Texas Theater... and on and on.
Doppelgangers!!! Thanks for 'splaining' it, and thanks for starting off my morning with a laugh. And, Karl, I think I can accurately report that I believe Judyth Baker's story every bit as much as you do.
With love,
Jim
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Tracy Riddle - 17-09-2013
KK, I agree that there were other people impersonating Oswald, particularly in the months right before the assassination. The man photographed by the Cubans in Mexico City is clearly not "Lee" or "Harvey" -
On the other hand, this project clearly goes back many years, before JFK was even elected. I keep bringing up the Pfisterer episode because it's well-documented.
So what if one of them had died? Do you not go ahead with any project (at work or wherever) because someone might die?
If you think the book is "fishy," what do you think Armstrong's motivation was?
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - David Josephs - 17-09-2013
It's very easy to critique the work of others when you yourself have offered nothing as an explanation...
Dropping the term "Doppleganger" shows you can reach up to and maybe beyond 4 syllable words... good for you Karl.
The records in the possession of the FBI and finally handed o=ver in COPY FORM to the WC, related to the school years 52, 53 & 54 shows the child attending more days than are available...
The records also show his attending the YOUTH HOUSE while also attending PS44...
The records also show that Robert lied about visiting MO/LHO in the fall of 1952... and that Robert KNOWS his brother LEE attended Stripling JHS in the fall of 1952... NOT Trinity & PS117.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19404#entry258339
Rather than reposting these long, illustrated posts... please see this thread ofer at the EF...
and then KARL - c[B]ome on back here and refute the evidence provided by the WCR[/B]
I'm not asking that you deal with the employment issues, the Taiwan/Japan problems or the multiple sightings of LEE with Ruby and Tippit....
Just deal with 1952-53 in NYC.
The dishonesty of Robert and Marguerite Oswald in their ridiculously long testimonies...
and the ability of John Pic to pic LEE from HARVEY in every case.
Mr. JENNER - Then to the right there is a picture of two young men, the upper portion of the one young man at the bottom and then apparently a young man standing up in back of that person. Do you recognize either of those young people?
Mr. PIC - Yes; I recognize Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr. JENNER - Is he the one to which the black arrow is pointing?
Mr. PIC - Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER - Then right below that is a picture of a young man standing in front of an iron fence, which appears to be probably at a zoo. Do you recognize that?
Mr. PIC - Sir, from that picture, I could not recognize that that is Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr. JENNER - That young fellow is shown there, he doesn't look like you recall Lee looked in 1952 and 1953 when you saw him in New York City?
Mr. PIC - No, sir.
Mr. JENNER - Commission Exhibit No. 284 do you recognize anybody in that picture that appears to be Lee Oswald?
Mr. PIC - No, sir.
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John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Jim Hargrove - 17-09-2013
David Josephs Wrote:http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19404#entry258339
Hi, David,
That's a fabulous write-up you linked above. I learned several things about the EARLIEST Oswalds I either had missed before or forgotten. Megathanks!
Jim
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Peter Lemkin - 17-09-2013
I warned people on this Forum that KK is a WC-adherent, if not a WC-Mockingbird or Sunstein agent. I saw it when he was on the EF and it is not changed in his behaviors here. He is 'clever' in disguising his 'views' [sic], IMO; which are really the views of those who command the Cover-up! Don't take him seriously and perhaps don't even bother to respond to his provocations, IMO, likely emanating from either disinfo-central or know-nothing-central; though I vote for the former.
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - David Josephs - 17-09-2013
Jim Hargrove Wrote:David Josephs Wrote:http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19404#entry258339
Hi, David,
That's a fabulous write-up you linked above. I learned several things about the EARLIEST Oswalds I either had missed before or forgotten. Megathanks!
Jim
Really my pleasure Jim.... I am trying to be sure I have exhausted the available documents related to that time period... when we add back San Saba and the memory of Georgia Bell
The repeated mentioning of HARVEY going back to NINTH grade while LEE was still attending 7-8th is interesting in that HARVEY'S school records are theones missing while the good (yet incorrect) attendance for LEE is what we have in the records.
Add now the WCR incorrectly stating that San Saba was purchased A YEAR OR MORE AFTER IT ACTUALLY WAS (1948 as opposed to 1947; WCR p674) while MO is living at 1505 8th St, 3300 Willing and 7408 Ewing - while ALSO RENTING A HOUSE around the block from STRIPLING JUNIOR HIGH... for a destitute lady with no job or money, she sure has a way with Real Estate !!
The man she ultimately sells 101 San Saba to lived just down the road - Otis Carleton - says she and her three boys lived there for 6-8 months - having bought the house on 7/7/47, and with LEE attending Clayton Elementary in Ft Worth starting September 1947... we must reconcile why Little Oswald would be going over 10 miles to a school in Ft Worth while living in Benbrook... how/why MO buys the house in San Saba BEFORE the divorce settlement
John Pic remembers the summer of 1947 in FT WORTH working for an Ice Cream Parlor... and offer NO RECOLLECTION of San Saba at all... yet there WAS a house in Benbrook years earlier...:
Mr. JENNER - Describe that house.
Mr. PIC - It was an L--shaped house, sir, being the top of the L was her bedroom, bathroom, kitchen, and living room with a screened-in porch. She and Lee slept together. My brother and I slept in the living room in the screened-in porch on studio couches. When we moved into this house and after the divorce and everything became final, I was--
Mr. JENNER - Excuse me, was that 101 San Saba?
Mr. PIC - No, sir; I don't know nothing about 101 San Saba.
Mr. JENNER - Do you recall the street you were on in Benbrook; this first house?
Mr. PIC - There were no streets. We used a post office box number up at the post office there. Because I was sending away for stamps at the time from different companies, and I was collecting stamps and I would go pick up the mail at the post office.
Mr. JENNER - The first house in Benbrook was on Granbury Road, that is your recollection? That is the one you have already mentioned heretofore?
Mr. PIC - Granbury Road is familiar, sir, if that is the one that is way far south of town on Granbury Road, then that is it.
Mr. JENNER - Well, there is a letter in the file at the Hunt Military Academy in October of 1945 informing them that a new address would be Granbury Road, Route 5, Box 567 in Benbrook
When theyreturned to Texas, two months later, Ekdahl rented a stone house on GranburyRoad in Benbrook-a small, rural community southwest of Fort Worth. On October29 Mrs. Oswald wrote a letter to Mr. Farrell at the Chamberlain Hunt Academy andinformed him that her new address was "Grandbury Rd- R 5- Box 567, Benbrook,Texas."[/FONT]
On O[B]ctober 31Lee Oswald entered the Benbrook Common School. His age was shown as 6, hisbirthday was listed as July 19, 1939 (his actual birth date was October 18, 1939),his address was given as Box 567, Benbrook, and his guardian was listed as E.A. Ekdahl.
[/B]In the summer of 1947 A SHORT and FAT MO is remembered by the Bells, who built their house at 100 San Saba in the summer of 1947...
At the same time the tall MO with her children are at 1505 8th Street in FT Worth, around the corner from the Lily B Clayton Elem school. The conclusion to be considered here is that the TALL MO bought a house while the SHORT FAT MO is renting it... even though the land records show a Mr Murray leasing the property, none of the neighbors remembers a MURRAY family while remembering that the SHORT FAT MO left around Thanksgiving 1947 to move back to 1505 8th Street and enroll LHO at Clayton... Benbrook Common school's records show LEE there in OCTOBER 1945 when they would have been living on Granbury Rd.
A Mrs Florence Murphy was LEE's 2nd Grade teacher, while fellow student Phil Vinson remembers LEE as the leader of the 7/8 year olds. in a 1963 article.
Who was residing at 101 San Saba thru Nov 1947, as seen and described by Bell and Carleton as a SHORT FAT MO, while not recognizing any photo of the actual MO.
During the Christmas holidays she wasphotographed with store employees June Claybrook, Joe Spence, Gene Watson,James Huff (store manager), Claude Dillard, Betty Rich, (Marguerite Oswald) andGail Hollis. [57-32] NOTE: This was the photograph that I sentor showed to Georgia Bell, Maury Goodman, Rita Paveur, Louis Marzialle andPalmer McBride-all of whom said this was not the Marguerite Oswald they knew.
The women on the far right is supposedly the same as the women in this picture...
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John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Phil Dragoo - 17-09-2013
David
Your photo comparison at 183 is killer.
Add to your examples of Harvey and Lee separated by space but not time your photographic study.
Is that Harvey at left with The Nose, and Lee at right with The Ears.
Without plastic surgery they are distinct--but for the nonfamilial brief observer, close enough to confuse, confound and conflate.
Deep Politics Forum has entered into such a meteor shower.
When Gordon Novel was making his death threats why didn't he snap that John Armstrong was a lone-nutter?
Karl, as you consider John Armstrong's work "silly" we await the product of your years of research.
As you say, not just one book--my copy of Harvey & Lee lacks a complement, a doppleganger.
1952.
C. D. Jackson writes Eisenhower's October speech instructing agencies of government to speak with a single voice.
Victory over We Need Adlai Badly so certain, the campaign has become mere policy screed.
The year Harvey & Lee are Borne Conspiracy.
Starring Neil McDonough and Matt Damon.
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John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Jim Hargrove - 17-09-2013
Phil Dragoo Wrote:David
Is that Harvey at left with The Nose, and Lee at right with The Ears.
Hi, Phil... The small kid on the left in David's montage is indeed HARVEY Oswald at the Bronx Zoo. You know, the kid his own half-brother said he didn't recognize under oath during the WC's esteemed inquiry. On the right is LEE from his sixth grade photo at Ridglea West elementary in Fort Worth. His roommate Richard Garrett told the FBI LEE was the tallest kid in his class.
Stick with this for a time, and you'll just begin to feel it come together, but there is a bit of cognitive dissonance at play, which no doubt is exactly as planned.
Jim
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Jim Hargrove - 17-09-2013
David Josephs Wrote:Really my pleasure Jim.... I am trying to be sure I have exhausted the available documents related to that time period... when we add back San Saba and the memory of Georgia Bell
The repeated mentioning of HARVEY going back to NINTH grade while LEE was still attending 7-8th is interesting in that HARVEY'S school records are theones missing while the good (yet incorrect) attendance for LEE is what we have in the records.
Add now the WCR incorrectly stating that San Saba was purchased A YEAR OR MORE AFTER IT ACTUALLY WAS (1948 as opposed to 1947; WCR p674) while MO is living at 1505 8th St, 3300 Willing and 7408 Ewing - while ALSO RENTING A HOUSE around the block from STRIPLING JUNIOR HIGH... for a destitute lady with no job or money, she sure has a way with Real Estate !!
The man she ultimately sells 101 San Saba to lived just down the road - Otis Carleton - says she and her three boys lived there for 6-8 months - having bought the house on 7/7/47, and with LEE attending Clayton Elementary in Ft Worth starting September 1947... we must reconcile why Little Oswald would be going over 10 miles to a school in Ft Worth while living in Benbrook... how/why MO buys the house in San Saba BEFORE the divorce settlement
John Pic remembers the summer of 1947 in FT WORTH working for an Ice Cream Parlor... and offer NO RECOLLECTION of San Saba at all... yet there WAS a house in Benbrook years earlier...:
David,
Don't know if he's talked to you about it, but JA is working with a Univ of Minn professor (he's posted a couple of times here) who is digging deep into San Saba. What's really interesting is that it looks like the real Marguerite (Ekdahl at the time--who usually seemed to have at least some money) purchased 101 San Saba in 1947 (John researched the land records) but phoney Marguerite (always without much money) rented it and lived in it, at least for a few months. If that analysis is correct, then it's hard to imagine any way that the two Marguerites didn't know each other, and know each other as long ago as the second half of 1947!
Jim
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - David Josephs - 18-09-2013
Out of the blue, a Mrs Louise Robertson - who lived around the corner from 825 E. 179th street - calls the FBI on Nov 27, 1963 to inform them the SHE was hired as Mrs. O's housekeeper in the summer of 1953. That SHE understood Mrs O to say that they moved to NYC to allow "LEE" to be tested at the Jacobi Hospital in the Bronx (one of three hospials that opened IN THE FALL OF 1955, THREE YEARS after MO/LEE go to NYC). Mrs. O denies this in WC testimony.
MRS. ROBERTSON also states that they moved away from their apartment THAT SUMMER and were not heard from again.
"MRS. ROBERTSON
RECALLED THAT SHORTLY BEFORE OSWALDS MOVED, MRS. OSWALD TOLD
HER THAT LEE HARVEY HAD RUN AWAY FROM HOME AND WAS LOCATED
AND RETURNED BY THE NEW YORK CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT. SHORTLY
AFTER THIS THE OSWALDS MOVED AND MRS. ROBERTSON HAS NOT
SEEN OR HEARD FROM THEM FROM THAT TIME."
As previously posted School Records show, OSWALD attended PS44 in NYC starting September 14, 1953 AND living at 825 E. 179th - STILL just around the corner from MRS ROBERTSON. This woman was never called nor a direct, signed statement was ever taken from her... We wonder how the very poor Mrs O can afford to hire and pay a housekeeper, own other homes a nd yet claim poverty and overwork continuously thruought this period...
At the same time, Fall 1953, a HARVEY OSWALD is attending BEAUREGARD JHS in Ft Worth... Myra DeRouse becomes his "homeroom" teacher in a basement classroom in JANUARY 54... His Homeroom is NOT room 303 as we find out later was written on his individual class grades. What we DO have as FACTS offered by the WCR and documentation:
OSWALD "originally admitted" to BJHS 1/13/54... where he attends 89 days and is absent 1. From Jan 13, 1954 to the end of the school year is 99 days if ending May 31, 1954.
and YET... we have a SECOND LINE for 53-54... with 6 full classes and 90 of 94 days attended - TOTAL SCHOOL YEAR of 185 days
While we can believe that LHO attended BJHS after 1/13/54 - we cannot reconcile his attending 179 of 185 school days BETWEEN JANUARY 13 and MAY 31 1954. He entered 9th grade in Sept 1954 as
CE1413 shows his grades and attendance at BJHS (and that he xferred from "PS44 - "BYRON JHS" which does not exist) while he was also recorded as attending PS44 in NYC from 9/14/53-1/12/54
The FBI made no effort to contact and/or interview ANYONE who might have known LHO at BJHS in 1953... In EACH AND EVERY CASE the students found are asked ONLY about 1954 and beyond (since the records show him in NYC thru 1/12/54 there would be no reason for the FBI to ask about 1953 in Ft Worth...) That Myra DeRouse remembers the SHORT HARVEY (she was 5'3" and says he came to her neck) while Ed Voebel remembers the BIG LEE in 1954 (Ed takes the famous "missing tooth" photo from which we CANNOT MATCH to HARVEY'S military/dental records or the exhumed body... LEE was the fighter)
The interpretation of these records can be found here: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10530&relPageId=11
Mr. Carro continued with the LHO case at PS44 in NYC thru Jan 12, 1954... even though he NEVER SEES LHO... Finally, on Nov 19, 1953 "A" MO and LHO appear before the court... At this point we believe this MAY BE, LEE and the TALL MO as LEE has been attending classes and "doing better".... They are still "paroled" to appear on 1/25/54 - yet by then LEE and the tall MO join the SHORT MO and HARVEY back in NOLA and AT Bearugard JHS where LEE is in homeroom 303 while HARVEY is with DeRouse in the basement cafeteria... the fun around 126 Exchange begins.... and whether or not HARVEY is a year ahead of LEE is still uncertain since all the BJHS records from the FBI are once again COPIES... with the ORIGINALS no where to be found.
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/html/WH_Vol19_0163b.htm
10/21/53: Progress which was requested on 10/16/53 from P.S .44 received on this
date . Boy indicates that since the term commenced he has been present in school
21 3/2 days and absent 1-3/2 days. His conduct is described as unsatisfactory. The
school reports that the child has shown no improvement . Mrs. Oswald does not
cooperate with the school authorities. She did not answer to a summons to come
to school about her son's welfare . ("During the past 2 weeks practically every subject
teacher has complained to me about the boy's behavior . He has consistently refused
to salute the flag during early morning exercises . In many rooms he has he done
no work whatsoever . He spends most of his time sailing paper planes around the
room. When we spoke to him about his behavior, his attitude was belligerent. I
offered to help him he brushed out with, "I don't need anybody's helpt .")
(Signed)H. Rosen, Teacher)
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