+- Deep Politics Forum (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora)
+-- Forum: Deep Politics Forum (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/forum-1.html)
+--- Forum: JFK Assassination (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/forum-3.html)
+--- Thread: Why on Earth are they investigating THOMAS ARTHUR VALLEE on 12/5/63? (/thread-10580.html)
Pages:
1
2
Why on Earth are they investigating THOMAS ARTHUR VALLEE on 12/5/63? - David Josephs - 22-04-2013
Albert Doyle Wrote:Maybe. But remember Oswald's aloof study was because he was a CIA covert operative.
Perhaps FBI just wanted to make it look like they investigated any Oswald Vallee connections in order to reference it so they could say they already looked in to it. Sort of like the same way the Commission spent so much time on Ruth Paine so they could make it look like they did thorough scrutiny.
disagree Albert...
the "CIA covert operative" part does not ring true to me... USED by the CIA - yes... operative? remains to be seen... "LEE" may have been though...
there are NO CONNECTIONS of any logic that places VALLEE in the JFK arena unless there was an acknowledged Chicago situation... that VALLEE looks and smells like a PATSY is no concidence
That Ruth Paine gets days while Hill, Brehm, and so many others don't get the time of day for testimony is no real surprise at this point.
Again... VALLEE has nothing to do with Dallas... yet FBI Chicago creates reports on him as if he did...
Who makes these connections in early December and why include VALLEE at all in the FBI reports?
Here is the first I can find: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10448&relPageId=2
WCD #47 from Chicago by Pedrotty
And he states thru an anonymous tip that LEE HARVEY OSWALD was arrested on 11/2/63 in Chicago under an assumed name: (VALLEE)
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10448&relPageId=10
I was also not aware that the car VALLEE was driving in Chicago was registered to an address of a vacant lot in NYC...
That the (Luke) HESTERS and Hugh Larkin tried to find out more about this license plate and hit an FBI roadblock...
Well...at least they didn't use a car registered to a Collins Radio employee... lol
DJ
Why on Earth are they investigating THOMAS ARTHUR VALLEE on 12/5/63? - David Josephs - 22-04-2013
Anyone have access to the SS 008581 report on VALLEE... ??
I keep reading how the SS got a tip on VALLEE, yet nothing concrete...
Anyone?
Why on Earth are they investigating THOMAS ARTHUR VALLEE on 12/5/63? - Albert Doyle - 22-04-2013
David Josephs Wrote:disagree Albert...
the "CIA covert operative" part does not ring true to me... USED by the CIA - yes... operative? remains to be seen... "LEE" may have been though...
there are NO CONNECTIONS of any logic that places VALLEE in the JFK arena unless there was an acknowledged Chicago situation... that VALLEE looks and smells like a PATSY is no concidence
I think you're missing the point. Just in case some clever reporter noticed the similarity between Vallee and Oswald they could point to this reference and say it was already investigated and came up with nothing.
What? You think Oswald didn't know he was being trained in Russian and sent to the USSR for CIA? You think he shut-up in the police station because he was afraid of Ruby? You think he didn't know the Paines were CIA?
Oswald to Fritz: "Everybody will know who I am now."
Why on Earth are they investigating THOMAS ARTHUR VALLEE on 12/5/63? - Tom Scully - 19-07-2015
Vallee, from where my research results lead me, appears to be a disturbed young man who misrepresented his age
to enter the military at age 15. I think it is a mistake to post the opinions of him and his agenda that I am reading from some sources, including in reviews of Douglass's book. The facts do not support such opinions.
His nephew has his age off by one year..... and yes, the name is compatible with Vallee's genealogy. His opinion
is compatible with news reporting in the Chicago Trib. archive, but.... if you are convinced nothing is reliable with the exception of your own hunch.......
Quote:December 31, 2013
By
Thomas Woodward ""ilookmarvlus""
This review is from: JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters (Paperback)
I saw a brief blurb on the author's Wordpress blog where he refers to Thomas Arthur Vallee as a "ex-marine lone nut patsy ...who had a printing job (courtesy of his CIA handlers)..."
Tom Vallee was a Marine who served honorably in the Korean conflict. He loved his country so much that he falsified his records and enlisted at the age of 16. He served as a sniper who received a head wound in an artillery attack and was honored with a Bronze Star for his service.
After the ware Tom Vallee became a typesetter as was his father. He was buried with full military honors years ago in Chicago after he passed from Hodgkins disease in a VA Hospital.
The author hasn't done his research, as others have done. Tom has been a convenient scapegoat for many conspiratory theorists, more frequently than the number of times he was suggested as a scapegoat for the FBI or CIA. Yes, Tom was a vehement anti-communist and he didn't care for Kennedy, but he wasn't the man many portray him to be.
In fact he's likely unaware that Tom left everything he had to the Catholic Church and donate just about every penny he earned to Catholic charities and lived most of his life most frugally and dedicated his life to the church. He did this quietly.
Tom was my Uncle.
Quote:JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters - Page 204
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1439193886James W. Douglass - 2010 - ‎Preview - ‎More editions
Why He Died and Why It Matters James W. Douglass. At 4:30 a.m. on December 4, 1969, six years after the arrest of Thomas Arthur Vallee, Sergeant Daniel Groth commanded the police team that broke ... To learn more about Vallee's past, in late summer 2004 I talked with his sister, Mary Vallee-Portillo, a nurse in Chicago.
And the same people who will argue that the post Mary Meyer murder trial record of Ray Crump does not speak to his culpability in Mary's murder will not hesitate to point out that anything Daniel Groth said related to the investigation of Thomas Arthur Vallee is unreliable because of Groth's conduct six years later.
I am not working at being argumentative, I post from the POV that I am a member of the choir. If someone preaches to me and I am not moved by what they seem to accept mostly on faith, from my analysis of the same details, who do they expect to persuade? There are richer and potentially more productive research targets than Vallee. James Douglass wrote a book that to his credit has an extraordinary number of gems between its covers, but he also went and threw everything else at the wall that he hoped might stick, and doing that detracted from his overall effort to make a thoroughly credible presentation.
We need to be reliable every time, and consistent. An argument that supports Crump's innocence on the premise that his later criminality has no bearing on charges against him filed in 1964, should not inversely impeach Sgt. Groth's unreliability, six years before 1969. I am able to author long posted presentations that i put much time into preparing. I toss more than I keep. If I cannot support it strongly, I hold back from including it. I can point out a number of instances in which James Douglass did not do that, but this thread is not about him.
There is actually no proof of this. It comes from misreading details in FBI reports.:
Quote:
JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters - Page 203
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1439193886
James W. Douglass - 2010 - ‎Preview - ‎More editions
Why He Died and Why It Matters James W. Douglass. States. ...Hugh Larkin, a retired..... The registration for the license plate on the car Thomas Arthur Vallee was driving at the time of his arrest was classif iedrestricted to U.S. intelligence agencies. The two Chicago
The retired police officer who made the license plate license plate inquiry was unauthorized and was blocked from
receiving the info for his relative (son-in-law, Chris Hester, working at NBC Chicago for Bill Corley) who worked for an NBC news affiliate.:
http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62272&relPageId=50&search=larkin
Quote:http://www.hvpress.net/news/138/ARTICLE/4293/2008-05-14.html
[size=12]An Odyssey for Truth and Justice May 14th, 2008 By Ed McCarthy
[/SIZE]
[size=12][size=12]......The license plate and registration on the 1962 Ford Falcon that Vallee was driving on November 1[SUP]st[/SUP] in Chicago was New York Registration License plate # 311-ORF and was registered in the name of Lee Harvey Oswald. This is 21 days prior to President Kennedy's assassination and the world knowing the name Oswald. [/SIZE][/SIZE].....
Skolnick did not get the correct information on the [size=12][size=12]New York Registration[/SIZE][/SIZE].
[URL="http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=40391&relPageId=263&search=311-0rf_AND%20falcon"]http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=40391&relPageId=263&search=311-0rf_AND%20falcon
[/URL]
Why on Earth are they investigating THOMAS ARTHUR VALLEE on 12/5/63? - David Josephs - 20-07-2015
Quote:The license plate and registration on the 1962 Ford Falcon that Vallee was driving on November 1[SUP]st[/SUP] in Chicago was New York Registration License plate # 311-ORF and was registered in the name of Lee Harvey Oswald. This is 21 days prior to President Kennedy's assassination and the world knowing the name Oswald.
Tom, do you know where McCarthy gets this info?
Is there any documentation related to this registration info?
Is this the same Ford Falcon seen by TF White with an Oswald look alike at the wheel but with a different license plate?
Plates which belonged to Carl Mathers of Collins Radio, friend of Tippit. "PP 4537"
Thanks Tom
Why on Earth are they investigating THOMAS ARTHUR VALLEE on 12/5/63? - Tom Scully - 20-07-2015
David,
The five year old thread started by Bill Kelly, who actually met the man who TF White first described the Falcon to.:
"Dallas Mayors"
Started by William Kelly, Jul 27 2010
Although JA draws from it, the classified 1978 HSCA of Carl Mather is still classified, according to Bill Kelly in the
next two links,
http://jfkcountercoup2.blogspot.com/2012_03_01_archive.html
http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2012/07/are-more-records-out-there.html
A 1996 article in the "Fourth Decade" describing the whole TF White, Dallas scenario and quotes from snippets of
Mather's 1978 testimony, but does not disagree with Kelly that the transcript was unavailable in 1996.
http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=48696&relPageId=34&search=brandywine
HSCA references to Mather's testimony in the appendix of the report, and in the report itself, at the lower link,
which is probably JA's source.
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=84&relPageId=48&search=mather
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=84#relPageId=43
if you went in to the next few pages following the link I posted,
(son-in-law, Chris Hester, working at NBC Chicago for Bill Corley) , you may agree with me that McCarthy had the same problem that Douglass had.... he did not dig deep enough. There is nothing supporting the similar claims of Douglass or McCarthy, that I am able to find.
Quote:JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters - Page 434
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1439193886James W. Douglass - 2010 - ‎Preview - ‎More editions
They told Mary Larkin Ivino, "That address is a vacant lot." Whoever registered the license plate for the car had given an address that would frustrate any quest for further information. Author's interview with Luke Christopher Hester, August 24, ...
The TF White license plate report does not match the NBC Chicago report of Bill Corley. He did not disclose his source to the FBI, but it was likely from inside Chicago PD or courts, and as the report to the FBI of an anonymous
Chicago Tribune photographer, relayed through reporter Tom Powers indicated, humors were flying.:
http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62272&search=larkin#relPageId=51&tab=page
The FBI reported that NY State DMV record inicated the license plate on the Vallee 1962 Falcon was registered to
Thomas Vallee of 2131 Bond Ln Hicksville, NY.;
http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62272&search=larkin#relPageId=51&tab=page
Bond Ln is a short length street of homes constructed in the 1950's. 21 and 31 Bond Ln are a few lots apart, and
the street numbers do not rise above no. 100.
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/21-Bond-Ln-Hicksville-NY-11801/31285549_zpid/
Quote:[TABLE="class: s_gsResults"]
[TR="class: tblrow record"]
[TD="class: record-title"] U.S., Department of Veterans Affairs BIRLS Death File, 1850-2010[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: table tableHorizontal tableHorizontalRuled"]
[TR]
[TH]Name:
[/TH]
[TD]Thomas Vallee[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Gender:[/TH]
[TD]Male[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Birth Date:[/TH]
[TD]15 Nov 1933[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Death Date:[/TH]
[TD]26 Mar 1988[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]SSN:[/TH]
[TD]327304015[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Branch 1:[/TH]
[TD]M[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Enlistment Date 1:[/TH]
[TD]12 Aug 1949[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Release Date 1:[/TH]
[TD]28 Nov 1952[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Enlistment Date 2:[/TH]
[TD]28 Oct 1955[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Release Date 2:[/TH]
[TD]14 Sep 1956[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: s_gsResults"]
[TR="class: tblrowalt record"]
[TD="class: record-title"] U.S., Social Security Death Index, 1935-2014[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: table tableHorizontal tableHorizontalRuled"]
[TR]
[TH]Name:[/TH]
[TD]Thomas A. Vallee
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]SSN:[/TH]
[TD]327-30-4015[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Last Residence:[/TH]
[TD] 60626 Chicago, Cook, Illinois, USA
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]BORN:[/TH]
[TD]15 Nov 1933[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Died:[/TH]
[TD]26 Mar 1988[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: s_gsResults"]
[TR="class: tblrow record"]
[TD="class: record-title"] 1940 United States Federal Census[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]Name: [/TD]
[TD]Thomas Valler Junior
[Thomas Vallee] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Birth: [/TD]
[TD]abt 1934 - Illinois[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Residence: [/TD]
[TD]1935 - Chicago, Cook, Illinois
Household Members: [TABLE="class: p_embedTable table"]
[TR]
[TH="class: p_embedTableHead, align: left"]Name
[/TH]
[TH="class: p_embedTableHead, align: left"]Age[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="class: p_embedTableRow"]
[TD="align: left"] Thomas Valler [/TD]
[TD="align: left"]31[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: p_embedTableRow"]
[TD="align: left"] Mary Valler [/TD]
[TD="align: left"]31[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: p_embedTableRow"]
[TD="align: left"] Margaret Valler [/TD]
[TD="align: left"]8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: p_embedTableRow"]
[TD="align: left"] Thomas Valler [/TD]
[TD="align: left"]6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: p_embedTableRow"]
[TD="align: left"] Mary Valler [/TD]
[TD="align: left"]3[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]