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+--- Forum: JFK Assassination (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/Forum-JFK-Assassination)
+--- Thread: JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth? (/Thread-JFK-Will-We-Ever-Know-the-Truth)
JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth? - Gordon Gray - 26-05-2013
Was there any one involved in the various levels of the conspiracy who even knew the whole truth? Kind of like the firing squad where there is one gun with blanks so no one can be sure if they were culpable. Probably not even Allen Dulles could have given you more than a general out line. And I think the general out line is pretty clear for any one who cares to take an even cursory look at the evidence. I am not sure if any one thing could change things now, but I would love to see what would happen if someone could get a copy of the "other film" and have go viral on the internet. I also wonder if Marina Oswald will ever tell all she knows. Be a fascinating story.
JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth? - Jan Klimkowski - 26-05-2013
One of the most valuable frameworks for analysing deep political events is the model developed by George Michael Evica and our fellow DPF founder, Charles Drago. This is the Sponsor / Facilitator / Mechanic model.
It was developed primarily for analysis of the JFK assassination, and an exposition of it can be seen at the link below.
The Sponsor/Facilitator/Mechanic Model Applied to 9/11
This framework reveals precisely why those who physically perform the crime may have no idea whose agenda they are serving. Indeed, it is usually essential that the Mechanics do no know the identity of the Sponsors.
JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth? - Adele Edisen - 26-05-2013
Jan,
Again I notice in your reference that LBJ is listed as a False Sponsor/Facilitator in the JFK assassination story.
Lyndon Johnson and his staff all did their very best to try to keep John Kennedy from being sent to Dallas
during the Texas trip. Please read MARCH THIRTY-FIRST by Horace Busby, speechwriter and confidante of LBJ.
You will find a very clear description of what was happening before the Texas trip. Johnson wanted to avoid
any embarrassment to John Kennedy and to the Democratic Party, such as what he and Ladybird Johnson
had experienced during their campaign visit to Dallas in 1960, and which our UN Ambassador also experienced
in Dallas just two weeks before the Texas trip. Johnson was concerned about the John Birchers and similar
right-wing characters who despised the Democratic Party and the Kennedy-Johnson administration.
Johnson left Washington for his ranch in Texas 12 days before the arrival of John Kennedy, his wife, and staff
in San Antonio, Texas, on Thursday, November 21, 1963. Up until that time Johnson worked hard to invite
as many Texas Democrats as possible to the last event of the trip in Austin, the only fund-raising event of
the trip. That event had been scheduled for the evening of Frday, the 22nd if November.
To assume that Lyndon Johnson was involved in any way in the assassination is based on false beliefs.
Adele
JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth? - Jan Klimkowski - 26-05-2013
Adele - it was Charles who described LBJ as a false sponsor, not me.
However, in the terminology used in the Evica / Drago model, LBJ is absolutely a false sponsor of the assassination of LBJ.
So, I agree with Charles' reasoning here.
JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth? - Tracy Riddle - 26-05-2013
Adele Edisen Wrote:Jan,
To assume that Lyndon Johnson was involved in any way in the assassination is based on false beliefs.
Adele
IMO, Johnson spent the hours and days after the assassination trying to shut down the plotters' attempt to blame Castro and the KGB and start World War III. They had spent a lot of time setting up a pro-Castro patsy, staging the Mexico City incident, etc. Who knows what kind of frantic phone calls were being made to get the Joint Chiefs and the CIA to stand down from their Operation Northwoods plan?
But he had to give them a consolation prize. So LBJ told the Joint Chiefs at a Christmas party in December, "Just let me get elected, and then you can have your war." (Vietnam: A History p326, Stanley Karnow)
JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth? - Jan Klimkowski - 26-05-2013
There are numerous LBJ threads where the evidence has been insightfully discussed on DPF.
Here are two major and directly relevant ones.
Nelson's LBJ Mastermind book
The lbj false sponsorship operation to continue
JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth? - Albert Doyle - 26-05-2013
Adele Edisen Wrote:To assume that Lyndon Johnson was involved in any way in the assassination is based on false beliefs.
Adele
I think it's a mistake to judge Johnson from any surface examination of his behavior because he was a complex man with complex motivations. I also think the "God-damned Kennedy's won't cause me any more trouble" (Or whatever the exact wording was) is probably true. However I have no problem saying Johnson was a false sponsor.
I agree with the criticism of those who say Johnson was the mastermind. However I find the information contained in those books about Johnson and his corruption informing and useful.
JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth? - Albert Doyle - 26-05-2013
Tracy Riddle Wrote:IMO, Johnson spent the hours and days after the assassination trying to shut down the plotters' attempt to blame Castro and the KGB and start World War III. They had spent a lot of time setting up a pro-Castro patsy, staging the Mexico City incident, etc. Who knows what kind of frantic phone calls were being made to get the Joint Chiefs and the CIA to stand down from their Operation Northwoods plan?
But he had to give them a consolation prize. So LBJ told the Joint Chiefs at a Christmas party in December, "Just let me get elected, and then you can have your war." (Vietnam: A History p326, Stanley Karnow)
IMO, the alteration of NSAM 273 the day before the assassination shows VietNam was in the plans prior to the assassination.
JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth? - Adele Edisen - 27-05-2013
Jan Klimkowski Wrote:There are numerous LBJ threads where the evidence has been insightfully discussed on DPF.
Here are two major and directly relevant ones.
Nelson's LBJ Mastermind book
The lbj false sponsorship operation to continue
Jan, I knew that was from Chares, who did label LBJ a Facilitator, unless I misread your reference. I was replying to your post, so I addressed it to you.
BTW, I inverted the title of Horace Busby's book. It should be THE THIRTY-FIRST OF MARCH. It is very readable and historically significant.
Thanks for your reply.
Adele
JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth? - Adele Edisen - 27-05-2013
Tracy Riddle Wrote:Adele Edisen Wrote:Jan,
To assume that Lyndon Johnson was involved in any way in the assassination is based on false beliefs.
Adele
IMO, Johnson spent the hours and days after the assassination trying to shut down the plotters' attempt to blame Castro and the KGB and start World War III. They had spent a lot of time setting up a pro-Castro patsy, staging the Mexico City incident, etc. Who knows what kind of frantic phone calls were being made to get the Joint Chiefs and the CIA to stand down from their Operation Northwoods plan?
But he had to give them a consolation prize. So LBJ told the Joint Chiefs at a Christmas party in December, "Just let me get elected, and then you can have your war." (Vietnam: A History p326, Stanley Karnow)
Hi, Tracy,
Yes, that he did. I believe he also said of the CIA that they were running a "Murder, Incorporated." He knew what they were doing. The Joint Chiefs of Staff were ready to carpet-bomb China and the Soviet Union, even before the aassassination, and invade Cuba..
Let us also remember that every president after Kennedy, excepting the two members of the Bush family, had to fear their own assassinations, even today. Certainly Johnson himself, who was a stronger Democrat than Kennedy was and more prone to dissatisfy the Wall Street elements, many of whom were linked to the plot by Wall Street to overthrow Franklin Delano Roosevelt thirty years before. He shifted attention away from Castro and the Soviet Union "communists" did-it plan of the CIA, because they wanted WAR there! He was under constant heavy pressure all through the 1960s to keep the Vietnam War going, and he wanted out of it. Did you know that he wanted to tell the American people in 1967 that he would not run for re-election in 1968? That's in Busby's book. He did not do it because Bobby Kennedy had not yet made up his mind to run, and Eugene McCarthy was not considered by him a strong candidate, so he waited until March 31, 1968 (the title of the book by Busby), which was two weeks after Bobby Kennedy said he was running for presidemt. It's important to understand this about LBJ. He was a strong Democratic Party man. Many of his decisions were not self-seeking ones. He wanted the best candidate possible. Yes, he disagreed with Bobby, about the Vietnam War, but he also knew that Bobby could end it. He knew he was the best possible one and so he had waited months before he stepped down, when Bobby was going to run.
Adele