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TSBD Rifle Wrong Length, Alleged Shipment Unverified - Albert Doyle - 14-01-2014
David Josephs Wrote:Albert - just to be clear and EXACT...
it is not 7.6 lbs... it is 7lbs 6oz... which is LESS than 1/2 lb... the total without boxes or cartons (and they used both) would be 700lbs and 600ozs which equals 37.5lbs so BY THEMSELVES the rifels weigh less than 750lbs
Yet go to http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-17997/Corrugated-Boxes-200-Test/8-x-4-x-46-FOL-Side-Loading-Corrugated-Boxes-200-lb-test and see that the lightest box weighs 1.15lbs
100 of those is over 100 lbs and then the carton that holds 10 rifles each - 10 of those adds another 30-50 lbs yet we are still pushing 900 lbs for the larger FC rifle and about 750 lbs for the shorter TS rifle.
Not sure. The Wikipedia entry for the Carcano rifle says it is 3 feet 4 inches (40 inches) and weighs 7.5lbs.
I'm also not sure about the cartons because I've seen Google Images of multi gun cases with guns stacked in an alternating manner. So it is possible they had a strong cardboard box with 10 Carcanos stacked in such a way.
Do you have a source for them using both the single box and carton?
TSBD Rifle Wrong Length, Alleged Shipment Unverified - David Josephs - 14-01-2014
Albert Doyle Wrote:David Josephs Wrote:Albert - just to be clear and EXACT...
it is not 7.6 lbs... it is 7lbs 6oz... which is LESS than 1/2 lb... the total without boxes or cartons (and they used both) would be 700lbs and 600ozs which equals 37.5lbs so BY THEMSELVES the rifels weigh less than 750lbs
Yet go to http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-17997/Corrugated-Boxes-200-Test/8-x-4-x-46-FOL-Side-Loading-Corrugated-Boxes-200-lb-test and see that the lightest box weighs 1.15lbs
100 of those is over 100 lbs and then the carton that holds 10 rifles each - 10 of those adds another 30-50 lbs yet we are still pushing 900 lbs for the larger FC rifle and about 750 lbs for the shorter TS rifle.
Not sure. The Wikipedia entry for the Carcano rifle says it is 3 feet 4 inches (40 inches) and weighs 7.5lbs.
I'm also not sure about the cartons because I've seen Google Images of multi gun cases with guns stacked in an alternating manner. So it is possible they had a strong cardboard box with 10 Carcanos stacked in such a way.
Do you have a source for them using both the single box and carton?
So wiki is now a more reliable source than the manufacturer's specs? It is possible the person writing that for wiki made the same mistake you did... and we also know the length was more than 40"...
Whoever it was, was not being accurate, but only general.
Here is RUPP's report about them packing 10 rifles to a carton with each rifle in its own carton. Feldsott also confirms this in his FBI interview.
In either case, as I am showing, the Lipschultz order could have been anything... and still does not answer the question about which rifle KLEINS was shipping for M91/38TS orders for a scoped $19.95 rifle
DJ
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=329998
TSBD Rifle Wrong Length, Alleged Shipment Unverified - Albert Doyle - 14-01-2014
David Josephs Wrote:So wiki is now a more reliable source than the manufacturer's specs?
Do you have a link for those specs? See the chart at the bottom of this link. Under Fucile Corto 91/38. It says 7lbs 7 ounces:
http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano/models.html
David Josephs Wrote:Here is RUPP's report about them packing 10 rifles to a carton with each rifle in its own carton. Feldsott also confirms this in his FBI interview.
That would make sense because cardboard is stronger if it is braced by direct contact with tightly-fitted boxes.
Now it begs the question if the lot of 10 cartons was stacked and strapped together the same way?
TSBD Rifle Wrong Length, Alleged Shipment Unverified - David Josephs - 15-01-2014
Then it was 7oz instead of 6oz (my bad)... still not a half pound.
and your link IS for the charts I posted...
Regarding your other question about the binding... IDK ???
But if you happen to get all the details please post -
Since the rifle in evidence is neither the rifle in the BYP or the rifle ordered... not sure what we are trying to show...
TSBD Rifle Wrong Length, Alleged Shipment Unverified - Albert Doyle - 15-01-2014
David Josephs Wrote:Since the rifle in evidence is neither the rifle in the BYP or the rifle ordered... not sure what we are trying to show...
We're showing that 100 40 inch rifles would weigh 743.5lbs without any packaging and therefore be impossible for the Lifschultz invoice 750lb weight. And since it would be highly unlikely Crescent would include a 40 inch carton mixed in with the shorter 36 inch cartons it pretty much shows Oswald's alleged C2766 wasn't in that order and the 36 inch Backyard Photo carbine was.
They screwed up. They probably figured the frame job, including the backyard photo, when the 36 inch carbine was in stock. They then decided they needed to control the ballistic evidence and also needed an extra rifle for the Ralph Yates Oswald to frame Oswald with so they grabbed another Klein's rifle, only the 40 inch rifle was now in stock and they didn't notice.
TSBD Rifle Wrong Length, Alleged Shipment Unverified - David Josephs - 15-01-2014
Sounds as good as any other explanation Albert...
but we're still chasing ghosts... we have no idea what was in that shipment or those cartons or whether they had anything at all to do wiht Oswald, c2766 etc...
What do we definitely know about that rifle?
How it got to the 6th floor? No
Whether it was shipped? No
Whether it's the same as the BYP rifle? IMO it is not and I posted the image why.
Had a clip in it? No
Had a custom made sling? YES
Ejects the clip when the last round is loaded? YES
Was assembled at some point IF brought in pieces? YES
Weights andnotations do not make it ture... LOGICALLY the weight doesn't add up... maybe Lipschultz just rounded it off?
Point remains that we simply do not know who else got a shipment of any one of these rifles, what they ordered to get it, and whether that rifle was substituted for other Item #'s...
WE DONT KNOW cause the miscrofilm of the orders is gone...
Has a single person stepped forward stating they ordered a C20-T750 just like HIDELL/OSWALD but got a M91/38FC instead? ANYONE?
Has ANYONE stepped forward who ordered any of the other 99 rifles in that shipment - with a copy of what they ordered?
A question of logic now: When these 10 cartons came to Kleins and were unloaded they were given KLEINS VC#'s...
One could assume that when a shipment comes in, it is checked, unloaded and recorded somehow. Here is a listing of the VC #'s which Waldman connected to serial #'s from these rifles.
Is it not strange that rafles in the same carton, on the same packing slip are recorded NOT in order or together as a carton, but are all over the place..
The following is coded to show where rifles from a few packing slips appear in the VC list... The RED arrow spreads one carton over VC#'s from 785 to 828...
The LONG black highlight is the C2766 carton, etc....
I honestly do not know if this means anything... why I am asking for comments... I just don't believe that what we have from Waldman on this was the original evidence turned in to the FBI... we have copies of microfilm copies which have any number of generations... and we can NEVER see the originals...
The arrest rifle is a prop like all the others... Kleins is simply another dead end that points at Oswald while incriminating the FBI once again for tampering with evidence
We will learn very little about THAT rifle from these docs.
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TSBD Rifle Wrong Length, Alleged Shipment Unverified - Albert Doyle - 18-01-2014
David Josephs Wrote:but we're still chasing ghosts... we have no idea what was in that shipment or those cartons or whether they had anything at all to do wiht Oswald, c2766 etc...
You're overthinking it David. Once you get to the level of government betrayal and corruption the bar for evidence is very low. We're well over that bar.