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Proof the Motorcade came to a long Halt - Tracy Riddle - 19-01-2015
Drew - Yes, maybe he made the story up. Who knows at this point?
It still would have been smart having someone stick a rifle barrel out of that window so it would be seen by people.
Proof the Motorcade came to a long Halt - David Josephs - 20-01-2015
Bob Prudhomme Wrote:There must have come a point in the hearings when some of the members of the Warren Commission began asking, "Why can none of these witnesses recall what the FBI claims they told FBI agents during interviews?"
The obvious contradiction by Harold Norman of a report submitted by an overly eager FBI agent is something repeated often during the hearings. Do we really need anything more to tell us Hoover and the FBI were part of a major cover up?
Did y'all read the books by Swearingen, theex-FBI who basically tells us the FBI agents made up everything in order to please Hoover. Reports, informants, meetings, overtime, everything. His books are not all that great related to JFK but the FBI stories and the atmosphere caused by Hoover was stifling and oppressive.
When information is needed to support a conclusion - a conclusion the FBI NEVER offered up but in this case - the FBI can be counted upon to come thru...
That and I'm not sure if everyone knows but the Warren Commissioners had final say on what was published in testimony and the report.
Allen Dulles simply crosses off and rewrites Cadigan's testimony when he refers to the FBI taking all the Dallas items - the number of items is 50% more than what was taken... so it was crossed out and rewritten and published that way...
One wonders how many other FINAL TESTIMONIES were treated to this editing....
Proof the Motorcade came to a long Halt - Bob Prudhomme - 23-01-2015
David Josephs Wrote:Bob Prudhomme Wrote:There must have come a point in the hearings when some of the members of the Warren Commission began asking, "Why can none of these witnesses recall what the FBI claims they told FBI agents during interviews?"
The obvious contradiction by Harold Norman of a report submitted by an overly eager FBI agent is something repeated often during the hearings. Do we really need anything more to tell us Hoover and the FBI were part of a major cover up?
Did y'all read the books by Swearingen, theex-FBI who basically tells us the FBI agents made up everything in order to please Hoover. Reports, informants, meetings, overtime, everything. His books are not all that great related to JFK but the FBI stories and the atmosphere caused by Hoover was stifling and oppressive.
When information is needed to support a conclusion - a conclusion the FBI NEVER offered up but in this case - the FBI can be counted upon to come thru...
That and I'm not sure if everyone knows but the Warren Commissioners had final say on what was published in testimony and the report.
Allen Dulles simply crosses off and rewrites Cadigan's testimony when he refers to the FBI taking all the Dallas items - the number of items is 50% more than what was taken... so it was crossed out and rewritten and published that way...
One wonders how many other FINAL TESTIMONIES were treated to this editing....
Wow, David, hard to believe this testimony was just brazenly deleted.
Many times I have looked at a witness's WC testimony, and wondered why certain questions were not asked by the lawyer speaking to the witness. Is it possible whole passages of testimony were deleted from the transcripts?
Proof the Motorcade came to a long Halt - David Josephs - 23-01-2015
Bob Prudhomme Wrote:David Josephs Wrote:Bob Prudhomme Wrote:There must have come a point in the hearings when some of the members of the Warren Commission began asking, "Why can none of these witnesses recall what the FBI claims they told FBI agents during interviews?"
The obvious contradiction by Harold Norman of a report submitted by an overly eager FBI agent is something repeated often during the hearings. Do we really need anything more to tell us Hoover and the FBI were part of a major cover up?
Did y'all read the books by Swearingen, theex-FBI who basically tells us the FBI agents made up everything in order to please Hoover. Reports, informants, meetings, overtime, everything. His books are not all that great related to JFK but the FBI stories and the atmosphere caused by Hoover was stifling and oppressive.
When information is needed to support a conclusion - a conclusion the FBI NEVER offered up but in this case - the FBI can be counted upon to come thru...
That and I'm not sure if everyone knows but the Warren Commissioners had final say on what was published in testimony and the report.
Allen Dulles simply crosses off and rewrites Cadigan's testimony when he refers to the FBI taking all the Dallas items - the number of items is 50% more than what was taken... so it was crossed out and rewritten and published that way...
One wonders how many other FINAL TESTIMONIES were treated to this editing....
Wow, David, hard to believe this testimony was just brazenly deleted.
Many times I have looked at a witness's WC testimony, and wondered why certain questions were not asked by the lawyer speaking to the witness. Is it possible whole passages of testimony were deleted from the transcripts?
Possible and most probable.
I find it somewhat interesting that the FBI says 3 and only 3 shots and the majority of the witness statements reflect same... when one of the first people to see the Zfilm claims 6-8 from 3 directions.
The limo stop is only one piece of this... the WIDE left turn onto Elm is gone as well - gone from ALL the films and somehow excised from Towner...
Mr. TRULY. That is right.
And the President's car following close behind came along at an average speed of 10 or 15 miles an hour. It wasn't that much, because they were getting ready to turn. And the driver of the Presidential car swung out too far to the right, and he came almost within an inch of running into this little abutment here, between Elm and the Parkway. And he slowed down perceptibly and pulled back to the left to get over into the middle lane of the parkway. Not being familiar with the street, he came too far out this way when he made his turn.
Mr. BELIN. He came too far to the north before he made his curve, and as he curved--as he made his left turn from Houston onto the street leading to the expressway, he almost hit this north curb?
Mr. TRULY. That is right. Just before he got to it, he had to almost stop, to pull over to the left.
If he had maintained his speed, he would probably have hit this little section here.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Proof the Motorcade came to a long Halt - Bob Prudhomme - 23-01-2015
David Josephs Wrote:Bob Prudhomme Wrote:David Josephs Wrote:Bob Prudhomme Wrote:There must have come a point in the hearings when some of the members of the Warren Commission began asking, "Why can none of these witnesses recall what the FBI claims they told FBI agents during interviews?"
The obvious contradiction by Harold Norman of a report submitted by an overly eager FBI agent is something repeated often during the hearings. Do we really need anything more to tell us Hoover and the FBI were part of a major cover up?
Did y'all read the books by Swearingen, theex-FBI who basically tells us the FBI agents made up everything in order to please Hoover. Reports, informants, meetings, overtime, everything. His books are not all that great related to JFK but the FBI stories and the atmosphere caused by Hoover was stifling and oppressive.
When information is needed to support a conclusion - a conclusion the FBI NEVER offered up but in this case - the FBI can be counted upon to come thru...
That and I'm not sure if everyone knows but the Warren Commissioners had final say on what was published in testimony and the report.
Allen Dulles simply crosses off and rewrites Cadigan's testimony when he refers to the FBI taking all the Dallas items - the number of items is 50% more than what was taken... so it was crossed out and rewritten and published that way...
One wonders how many other FINAL TESTIMONIES were treated to this editing....
Wow, David, hard to believe this testimony was just brazenly deleted.
Many times I have looked at a witness's WC testimony, and wondered why certain questions were not asked by the lawyer speaking to the witness. Is it possible whole passages of testimony were deleted from the transcripts?
Possible and most probable.
I find it somewhat interesting that the FBI says 3 and only 3 shots and the majority of the witness statements reflect same... when one of the first people to see the Zfilm claims 6-8 from 3 directions.
The limo stop is only one piece of this... the WIDE left turn onto Elm is gone as well - gone from ALL the films and somehow excised from Towner...
Mr. TRULY. That is right.
And the President's car following close behind came along at an average speed of 10 or 15 miles an hour. It wasn't that much, because they were getting ready to turn. And the driver of the Presidential car swung out too far to the right, and he came almost within an inch of running into this little abutment here, between Elm and the Parkway. And he slowed down perceptibly and pulled back to the left to get over into the middle lane of the parkway. Not being familiar with the street, he came too far out this way when he made his turn.
Mr. BELIN. He came too far to the north before he made his curve, and as he curved--as he made his left turn from Houston onto the street leading to the expressway, he almost hit this north curb?
Mr. TRULY. That is right. Just before he got to it, he had to almost stop, to pull over to the left.
If he had maintained his speed, he would probably have hit this little section here.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Wow, Dave, you're absolutley right. You can actually see the jump in the film halfway around the corner. And Roy Truly's testimony is completely contradicted by the smooth turn we see the limo making.
The thing I like about you, Dave, is that you've got a good nose for this kind of thing, and continually amaze me with the things you are able to uncover.
I'd take you hunting with me anytime! (course, you'd have to be the coon hound LOL)
Proof the Motorcade came to a long Halt - David Josephs - 23-01-2015
The smoothness with which the limo moves both here and in Z is eerie. And that small little jump could not possibly hide the turn as described...
Thanks for the kind words Robert... and as you've done so effectiely in your areas of expertise, you've shown that even the "expert" evidence IS the conspiracy IS the evidence IS the conspiracy.... :
:It's very liberating to change one's POV from analyzing the assassination thru the evidence to seeing the conspiracy thru the evidence.
There is little if any physical evidence which represents what happened in DP
This is supposedly a frame from the film Marie Muchmore took...
I thought the shot had come from the garden directly behind me, that it was on
an elevation from where I was as I was right on the curb. I do not recall
looking toward the Texas School Book Depository. I looked back in the vacinity
[sic] of the garden.
/s/ William E. Newman, Jr.
Yet when we finally get down to it, Muchmore says she did NOT take any assassination footage... especially not THIS CLEAR and steady
So where did the above image come from? LOL
DJ
Proof the Motorcade came to a long Halt - Bob Prudhomme - 23-01-2015
Hi Dave
There is a discussion over at JFKfacts.org regarding the testimony of Bill Shelley, Billy Lovelady and Victoria Adams. A poster by the name of David posted the following, and I thought of our recent discussion.
"Vanessa/Bob,In two affidavits to the FBI, Vickie Adams made no mention of having seen Bill Shelley or Billy Lovelady when she reached the first floor of the School Book Depository.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=1317&relPageId=662
This contradicts an interview report from 2/17/64, where Detective Leavelle states that Vickie Adams reported having seen "Mr. Shelley and another employee named Bill" when she got down to the first floor.http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/33/3376-001.gif
She has also challenged the accuracy of her WC testimony claiming she had not encountered Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor as it states. She also claims that she never waived her right to review her testimony as the transcript states."
How are we to do any realistic research, when it is possible every piece of evidence we examine has been "cleansed"?
Proof the Motorcade came to a long Halt - David Josephs - 23-01-2015
Bob Prudhomme Wrote:Hi Dave
There is a discussion over at JFKfacts.org regarding the testimony of Bill Shelley, Billy Lovelady and Victoria Adams. A poster by the name of David posted the following, and I thought of our recent discussion.
"Vanessa/Bob,In two affidavits to the FBI, Vickie Adams made no mention of having seen Bill Shelley or Billy Lovelady when she reached the first floor of the School Book Depository.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=1317&relPageId=662
This contradicts an interview report from 2/17/64, where Detective Leavelle states that Vickie Adams reported having seen "Mr. Shelley and another employee named Bill" when she got down to the first floor.http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/33/3376-001.gif
She has also challenged the accuracy of her WC testimony claiming she had not encountered Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor as it states. She also claims that she never waived her right to review her testimony as the transcript states."
How are we to do any realistic research, when it is possible every piece of evidence we examine has been "cleansed"?
Pretty disheartening, isn't it?
As I mention above, the evidence is only useful to uncover the conspiracy.
So where does she now say she encountered these two men? (I did not yet read "girl on the stairs")
Now what really bothers me about Adams' testimony is her statement regarding where she is at the time of the shots.. Should we be seeing Dorman, Adams and Styles in these 4th floor windows?
We can see someone in the 4th & 6th set of windows... we can see our three men on the 5th floor...
My inderstanding is that her seeing these men when they claim to have been elsewhere at the time discredits her timing and back stairs claims of not seeing anyone - which makes it tough for our Ozzie to do what Truly and Baker finally tell us in their testimony... (or what Baker says in his affidavit) I am not convinced that people have a clue how long a minute is. Plus we need to remember that Oswald was NOT AT THE WINDOW... but the FBI and DPD had to put him there, and then he had to be in the lunchroom on the 2nd floor...
Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it was between the time the shots were fired and the time you left the window to start toward the stairway?
Miss ADAMS - Between 15 and 30 seconds, estimated, approximately.
Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it was, or do you think it took you to get from the window to the top of the fourth floor stairs?
Miss ADAMS - I don't think I can answer that question accurately, because the time approximation, without a stopwatch, would be difficult.
Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it took you. to get from the window to the bottom of the stairs on the first floor?
Miss ADAMS - I would say no longer than a minute at the most.
(Baker affidavit puts this person 1-2 flights higher up which is much more incriminating than drinking a coke in the 2nd floor lunchroom with an auto closing door - why do you suppose this person was removed from the picture and who do you think he was?)
A
s we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket. s/ M. L. Baker
Robert - there was to be one and only one story. I think LBJ and Hoover realized the position they were put in immediately... Based on Mexico, Hoover did not want to say it was Oswald alone yet once the CIA got Alvarado to recant, the plot changed from a commie conspiracy story to a Lone Nut story. Any and all evidence that even suggested a conspiracy involving Oswald was to be removed. I think Shelley was an FBI/CIA asset and Lovelady was just going along to get along. I think Vickie left and was down on the first floor before Baker gets to there... which is why she is not in Dillard. The man that Baker sees has to be important since he not Truly are ever asked who that was... by their testimony it becmomes Oswald in the lunchroom...
Mr. BALL - Did you ever see Vickie Adams?
Mr. SHELLEY - I saw her that day but I don't remember where I saw her.
Mr. BALL - You don't remember whether you saw her when you came back?
Mr. SHELLEY - It was after we entered the building.
Mr. BALL - You think you did see her after you entered the building?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, sir; I thought it was on the fourth floor awhile after that.
<snip>
Mr. BALL - Did you see Vickie Adams after you came into the building and did you see her on the first floor?
Mr. SHELLEY - I sure don't remember.
Mr. BALL - You don't.
Mr. SHELLEY - No.
==========
Mr. BALL - You came in through the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - Right.
Mr. BALL - Who did you see in the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - I saw a girl but I wouldn't swear to it it's Vickie. (DJ - kinda interesting that LOVELADY brings up Vickie without being asked if it was her but just "Who did you see")
Mr. BALL - Who is Vickie?
Mr. LOVELADY - The girl that works for Scott, Foresman.
Mr. BALL - What is her full name?
Mr. LOVELADY - I wouldn't know.
Mr. BALL - Vickie Adams?
Mr. LOVELADY - I believe so.
Mr. BALL - Would you say it was Vickie you saw?
Mr. LOVELADY - I couldn't swear.
Mr. BALL - Where was the girl?
Mr. LOVELADY - I don't remember what place she was but I remember seeing a girl as she was talking to Bill or saw Bill or something, then I went over and asked one of the guys what time it was and to see if we should continue working or what.