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+--- Thread: New History Channel Series "Hunting Hitler" (/thread-14253.html)
New History Channel Series "Hunting Hitler" - Magda Hassan - 13-11-2015
Drew Phipps Wrote:I saw it. Frankly, I was a bit underwhelmed. They look like a bunch of serious guys: a Nazi hunter, some Special Forces guys (I think one of them was the "I shot Bin Laden" guy), a couple historian/researchers. But they didn't really give any worthwhile background. Some magical software thingy sieves through 700 pages of declassified FBI "Hitler sightings" docs and out pops a location, so they go there.
The baffled locals deny there are/were Nazis around, and the investigators conclude "they are still too scared to talk after 70 years." (I was kinda thinking that verb tenses are the first thing that gets lost in English/Spanish translations.) They found a school with a Nazi Eagle painted on it, and a Nazi former administrator; so this 80 old guy talks in Spanish about being forced to march around...but he uses the words, "eins, zwei, drei..." so it is apparent that he actually heard a German guy marching people around the school. (That was actually the high point of the show for me, but the investigation team didn't make any apparent note of that.)
They found a small concrete underground "bunker" (or "root cellar", depending on who's describing it), that may, or may not, be a common feature of Argentinian rural architecture. Previews indicate finds of larger structures, scuba diving for planes or subs, etc. It has been known for 70 years that many ex-Nazis did, in fact, take root in Argentina after the war. And the show has indeed proven that the FBI kept an open file on Hitler sightings. However, there was not a shred of anything specific to Hitler (beside the aforementioned FBI documents) in the footage.
I'm going to follow it for a while longer. Perhaps future shows will flesh out any more official or unofficial "Doubting Thomases" about the death (chief among whom appears to be Stalin himself, that bulwark of bourgeoisie credibility), and past fact-finding efforts by anyone more reputable.
FWIW re Argentinian rural architecture it would be extremely rare to have a root cellar. It is not part of local building traditions but would likely be included if the building was designed by Germans or possible Northern Italians. There are numerous localities in Argentina and Chile (and other place in SA) which are German towns and local Spanish speakers are not welcome except as cheap labour or human experiment subjects (Colonia Dignidad) but there does need to be some communication between the different languages. Even George Bush speaks fluent Spanish most likely to order the help around and preparing for when he has to go to exile in Paraguay and not because he has any deep interest in Spanish literature and culture. Given he is barely literate in English after all. These towns mostly precede WW2 but were greatly expanded after then. Schools and hospitals were offered to the locals and the locals thought it was wonderful to have access to what they thought was European medicine and education but it wasn't quite what they were getting. But it is possible that the film crew were in a place where there were no German towns. But to me it makes more sense that the locals are really are still scared after 70 years because the Germans have not gone away. Hitler may or may not have been there but there is an excellent chance there are fascist about. And you are correct about Spanish/English verb tenses. Not all of them have an equivalent.
New History Channel Series "Hunting Hitler" - David Guyatt - 13-11-2015
Gariloch, a town in Argentina - you could be forgiven for thinking it was Bavaria.
New History Channel Series "Hunting Hitler" - David Guyatt - 13-11-2015
Drew Phipps Wrote:I saw it. Frankly, I was a bit underwhelmed. They look like a bunch of serious guys: a Nazi hunter, some Special Forces guys (I think one of them was the "I shot Bin Laden" guy), a couple historian/researchers. But they didn't really give any worthwhile background. Some magical software thingy sieves through 700 pages of declassified FBI "Hitler sightings" docs and out pops a location, so they go there.
I saw a trailer that included this on the History Channel website. They concluded the old guy was former Hitler Youth because the way he acted when they asked him about that -- and they went on to say that even after 70 years there is a lot of fear amongst the locals.
New History Channel Series "Hunting Hitler" - Magda Hassan - 13-11-2015
There were tons of Nazis in Argentina. Here they are in 1938 before the war.
New History Channel Series "Hunting Hitler" - David Guyatt - 17-11-2015
I've just finished watching episode 2 of this documentary series. I have to say I'm impressed (other than the usual tv drama and tension they build into doco's these days, which I never like) by how well made it's been and the professional level of those taking part. It seems to me to be a well researched and exceptionally well funded investigation and made documentary, and I am learning things for the first time - including the vast layered tunnel network the Nazis built under Berlin that would've easily allowed an escape in secret. This network was vast and hundreds of kilometres in length. Plus just how many Germans resided in Argentina during those years (60,000) and how nazified they were. And all these later people still don't want to take about it - clearly there is a level of fear still extant.
Whether or not they'll ever reach the end of the journey, I don't know. But they have shown that there is absolutely no proof that Hitler died in Berlin in 1945. All the eye-witness account turned out to be hearsay or indirect. No one saw him take poison. No one saw his body after his death. Besides, there were 4 secret escape tunnels from the bunker that led directly into the vast underground tunnel network that permeated Berlin. Why have all that at your disposal and kill yourself? I doesn't make sense.
In short the story history tells us is true simply isn't.
New History Channel Series "Hunting Hitler" - Drew Phipps - 17-11-2015
It hasn't aired here yet. Don't give away the ending.
New History Channel Series "Hunting Hitler" - Drew Phipps - 03-12-2015
Just learned that J. Corsi wrote a book about this, same escape route, same title, in 2014. This show is apparently just a retelling of his story. So, you might want to keep Corsi's history as an ex-intelligence officer and UFO author in mind.
New History Channel Series "Hunting Hitler" - David Guyatt - 03-12-2015
Drew Phipps Wrote:It hasn't aired here yet. Don't give away the ending.
No probs. I won't.
But Hitler did get away. Read Grey Wolf. One of the authors, Brit journalist, Gerard Williams is part of the Bob Baer team.
New History Channel Series "Hunting Hitler" - David Guyatt - 13-02-2017
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/the-third-reich-how-close-was-hitler-to-the-a-bomb-a-346293.htmlSeries 2 of Hunting Hitler is now available. Episodes 1-3 are pretty much a retelling of the first series, albeit that they recount the story of SS Captain Peter Baumgart who as far back as 1949 claimed that he flew Hitler and Eva Braun to Tondor in Denmark on 25th May 1945 (HERE). However, that date appears not to be true and the documentary states the date was 29th April 1945, a day before Hitler is said to have committed suicide in his bunker in Berlin.
Interestingly, Tondor is close by Flensburg in Denmark, which is where Prof. Anthony Sutton in his early days as a British Army sergeant in rmy Intelligence said he was ordered to go to in the hunt for Martin Bormann. Tondor had a German WWI Zeppelin airfield which is still in existence (HERE).
Series 4-6 get more interesting as the film makers trace Nazi atomic bomb project (HERE & HERE) and conclude that it was secretly resettled in Argentina in 1947 under the cover of the then president, Juan Peron, but under the care of Nazi physicist Ronald Richter (HERE and HERE). It is, for me, more than interesting that neither Wired nor the NYT's noted that Barilcohe was where Hitler is believed to have resided for some time following his escape after WWII until moving elsewhere. In fact, Hitler's residence was at Baija Istana on the lake at Bariloche (HERE) whereas the Nazi atom bomb facility was on an island of Heumul on the same Lake Nahuel, near Barilcohe, in Patagonia, Argentina.
following the 1955 military coup that overthrew juan Peron, the new regime blew up the Nazi facility on the island using navy jets, and many nazis in hiding in Argentina fled across the mountains to Paraguay where, fortunately, another coup had taken place a year earlier in 1954 which placed Alfredo Stroessner in power, a dictator with a soft spot for nazi's such as Josef Mengele - as well as Peron himself (HERE).
Not without merit in this discussion are the revelations of Commissioner General Jorge Silvia Colotto, former Chief of the Argentine Federal Police and ADC to 8 Argentine Presidents, who claims Peron met Bormann on a number of occasions and also regularly paid the bill for Bormann's room at a luxury Buenos Aires hotel where Bormann stayed throughout 1953 (HERE). Another witness, a former Argentinian Naval Captain, confirms Bormann's presence in Buenos Aires in the 1950's and says that the CIA were also there keeping an eye on him.
The below interview of Colloto by Goldeneye Films was given on condition it would not be broadcast until after Collotto's death.
See also HERE.
New History Channel Series "Hunting Hitler" - David Guyatt - 13-02-2017
Following the 1955 coup in Argentina, Naziism as a military threat was effectively extinguished. However, it's post WWII power resided in its massive wealth - much of it plundered during the war - and contacts both of which were directed by Martin Bormann from exile in Latin America. The long term aim, it seems, was to create a new financial and political apparatus of control, thus avoiding direct military confrontation
Extract of Chapter 13, from William Stevenson's "The Bormann Brotherhood" Of particular note is the footnote on page 133:
Quote: * The Circle of Friends later came into the open in its new form. By 1970, it
issued regular bulletins in support of Franz Josef Strauss, of the Bavarian ChristianSocial Union (CSU). An example from a bulletin issued in Cologne, October 1970:"We have appealed to all who sympathize with the National Democrats [the mostprominent of neo-Nazi groups] to vote to strengthen the position of Franz JosefStrauss. He is the coming man. He does not succeed nor replace Adolf Hitler but hehas the leadership qualities. The German Army's officer corps awaits the strongman: Strauss. German youth needs strong and stern leadership. . . . The press mustbe strictly curbed. . . . We must seize power in one way or anothereven if theelections are not in our favor. Germany is at stake."
In following the Circle of Friends and its promotion of the "coming man" Franz Josef Strauss, I note briefly David Teacher's book, The Pinay Circle (also known as Le Cercle) a European force of not inconsiderable influence. In this respect reference is made to the so called Langemann Papers of Dr. Hans Langemann, who in 1982 blew the whistle on a number of highly dubious BND (German Intelligence) operations. The BND was founded and run by Nazi General Reinhard Gehlen.
Langemann revealed that Pinay supported the election of Hans Josef Strauss as German Chancellor and had already achieved the election of Margaret Thatcher as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. Some "Circle of Friends".
Extract from the Pinay Circle entry on Wikispooks
Quote:The Pinay Circle and Destabilisation in EuropeSource
Member of Parliament 'G': I don't know if it (the Pinay Circle) has any political significance, but, in any case, it has little impact. For me, it seems to have been (sic) a collection of elderly gentlemen doddering around. A few elderly gentlemen sitting over cups of coffee and discussing world developments. What do these fellows want?
MP 'A': These are no elderly gentlemen - they are former CIA and BND people working together.
MP 'X': I feel it is dangerous if we publicize such things. If such matters were to become public, it would damage the general image of the Federal Republic. Therefore we will decide to remove references of any kind to other countries or to connections with State services.
(From a closed session of the Bavarian Parliament's Committee of Investigation into the Langemann Affair, 21 June 1982.) [1]
When Dr. Hans Langemann blew the whistle on a series of dubious BND (Bundesnachrichtendienst Federal Intelligence Service) operations to Konkret magazine in 1982 [2], he opened up a whole can of worms whose ramifications go well beyond Germany's borders. His evidence was unassailable. From 1957 to 1970 Langemann was one of the BND's highest ranking officers. In 1972 he was security chief for the Munich Olympics before being purged by the SPD government for being too close to Franz Josef Strauss' Christian Social Union party. Langemann then became top link man for the security and intelligence services within the Bavarian Interior Ministry. It was their confidential documents he passed to Konkret in 1982. Published in Spiegel at the time and reproduced in Lobster 17, the documents give external confirmation of the conspiracy to effect a change of government in Britain, and reveal the European and world-wide links in this conspiracy through the Pinay Circle.
The Pinay Circle (also called the Cercle Violet) is an international right-wing propaganda group which brings together serving or retired intelligence officers and politicians with links to right-wing intelligence factions from most of the countries in Europe. The intelligence community has been represented by SIS Chief from 1978-82 Arthur 'Dickie' Franks, SIS Department Head Nicholas Elliott, CIA Director William Colby, Swiss Military Intelligence Chief of Provisions Colonel Botta, SDECE chief from 1970-81 Alexandre de Marenches, and, last but not least, the man who took over the running of the Circle when Pinay got too old, Jean Violet, a Parisian lawyer who worked for the SDECE from 1957-70. Violet became so much an 'eminence grise' in the SDECE that Alexandre de Marenches had to dispense with his services in order to assert his authority as new SDECE chief in 1970. This episode has however not prevented them from working together within the Circle. At the time the Langemann papers were written, Franks and Marenches were serving heads of British and French intelligence respectively.
On the political side, Pinay - a former French Prime Minister - forged links with Nixon, Kissinger and Pompidou. The Circle's present members include Giulio Andreotti, former Italian Prime Minister; Portuguese putschist General Antonio de Spinola; former Franco minister and senior Opus Dei member Silva Munoz; and Vatican prelate and BND agent Monsignore Brunello. Paul Violet, Jean Violet's son, is one of Chirac's closest advisors, nicknamed 'the adjutant' by Canard Enchaine. Langemann also reports that Sir Arthur Franks and Nicholas Elliott were invited to Chequers for a working meeting with Mrs Thatcher, after her election. But perhaps the key political figure was the late Franz Josef Strauss, Bavarian Premier and Langemann's boss.
Strauss was a close friend of Alexandre de Marenches and was a frequent visitor to the SDECE's headquarters during Marenches' time. The Hanns Seidel Stiftung, the political trust attached to Strauss' Christian Social Union party, is an important group in international parapolitical manipulation. Active in Latin America for the Contras,[3] supporting Mobuto in Zaire, involved in the Fiji coup in 1987, it was caught diverting state development aid from Germany into right-wing party coffers in Ecuador in the same year. Strauss and CSU were the main beneficiaries of identified Pinay Circle activities; i.e. the promotion of right-wing European politicians through Brian Crozier, Robert Moss, Fred Luchsinger of the Neue Zurcher Zeitung and Gerhard Lowenthal, anchorman on current affairs programmes for ZDF television, the major German network.
The Pinay Circle has a wide range of contacts and its members interlock with the whole panoply of rightwing/parallel intelligence and propaganda agencies - WACL, Heritage Foundation, Western Goals, ISC, Freedom Association, Interdoc, the Bilderberg Group, the Jonathan Institute, P2, Opus Dei, the Moonies' front CAUSA, IGFM (International Society for Human Rights), and Resistance International. Lowenthal, for instance, is a member of IGFM, Resistance International, WACL, CAUSA, the Jonathan Institute, Konservative Aktion and the European Institute on Security.
The Pinay Circle's significance lies in the fact that it is a forum which brings together the international linkmen of the Right like Crozier, Moss and Lowenthal, with secret service chiefs like Franks and Marenches. Through such contacts it can intervene by media action or covert funding whenever and wherever a political friend is in need of support.
The Langemann papers date from late 1979 and so they do not reveal to what extent the Pinay Circle was playing the last act in the Thatcher conspiracy, but Langemann's November 1979 report stated:
Specific aims within this framework are to effect a change of government
in the United Kingdom - accomplished
in West Germany - to defend freedom of trade and of movement and to oppose all forms of subversion including terrorism.
The international promotion of the Bavarian Premier was discussed in the Circle's January 1980 meeting: in a follow-up meeting in June the same year, the Circle's attention was turned towards the American Presidential election that was to bring Reagan to power.
The origin of the neoliberal economic movement that has been so destructive to the world via the accumulation of vast wealth by the few at the expense of the many effectively began with the election of Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan.
The two most revealing and well researched factual books on the survival of Nazism and Martin Bormann in particular are linked below. Paul Manning's book sets out the financial power of Bormann with the 750 corporations he set up around to world prior to the end of WWII, with the purpose to warehouse all Nazi wealth and investments he had at his fingertips. Included were deposits of money, gold, bearer bonds and shares in blue chip companies in the US and Europe.
In particular, it was (and is) the bearer bonds that were used to cloak ownership using a national of each country they invested in to appear as the owner (The 750 corporations were distributed as follows according to US Treasury investigators: Portugal, 58; Spain, 1 12; Sweden, 2 33; Switzerland, 214; Turkey,35; Argentina, 98. By In 1941, investments in U.S. corporations by German companies and assorted German individuals held voting ownershipin 170; minority ownership was held in another 108 American companies.
William Stevenson's book The Bormann Brotherhood is available for download in .pdf format HERE.
Paul Manning's extraordinary book Martin Bormann: Nazi in Exile can be downloaded as a .pdf HERE.