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+--- Thread: The SS and FBI place 4 shots in and around Z313 - just not Z313 (/thread-14411.html)
The SS and FBI place 4 shots in and around Z313 - just not Z313 - Ray Mitcham - 13-01-2016
Tom Wilson in the book "A Deeper Darker Truth" by Donald T Phillips, says that he found that the shot at 313 happened about 7'6" further down Elm Street, than was shown in the evidence.
The SS and FBI place 4 shots in and around Z313 - just not Z313 - David Josephs - 13-01-2016
Chris -
Those cones, as well as the SS marking of the same photos, connects via a straight line from Zapruder thru the cone to either 1)where JFK was when the shot hit, 2) where the front of the limo was or 3) where the back of the limo was...
Regardless of which measurement used, JFK cannot be at the Z313 location related to any of those cones or street locations.
They correspond to the original WEST survey results which as we both know represents elevations and distances much further down Elm.
The bottom graphic - which is in Part 3 of the work in process - illustrates exactly how the FBI/SS turned 3 shots into 2 - while being unable to say which of the three shots missed...
Amazing.
423.07 elevation for the "1st" shot as told in the legend is somewhere between Z255 and Z313.
The final shot's 416.83 elevation is nowhere near Z313 - in fact a 3 degree slope has a 19:1 rise/run means that 421.73 - 416.83 = 4.9 vertical feet lower.
What this means - I think - is that for every 1 foot of vertical decline the vahicle traveled 19 feet so that a spot at #3 in the graphics below would be 95 feet further down Elm than where this legend places Z313.
Regardless of speed, the run distance at a 3 degree angle is straight math... http://www.1728.org/gradient.htm
During the Eisenberg examinations of the Zfilm WC Lawyer Redlich writes Rankin a memo which is hardly seen by anyone over the past 50+ years and lays out the conspiracy to convict Oswald and insure that the Evidence which is presented by the investigative bodies matches the Evidence offered by those not related to these agencies or the government in general. The sentence in bold seems to me Part 2 of the Katzenbach memo and proves without a doubt that Oswald as sole assassin was to expressed in the evidence.
As a final insult - the recommendation is to let the FBI and SS fix their own "misleading picture" - which in turn leads to the West Survey redos and the underhanded presentation of the survey legend.
We have not yet examined the assassination scene todetermine
whether the assassin in fact could have shot the Presidentprior to
frame 190. We couldlocate the position on the ground which
corresponds to this frame and it would then be our intent toestablish
by photography that the assassin would have fired the firstshot at the
President prior to this point. Our intention is not to establish the
point with complete accuracy, but merely to substantiate the
hypothesis which underlies the conclusions that Oswald wasthe sole
assassin.
I should add that the facts which we now have in our
possession, submitted to us in separate reports from the FBIand
Secret Service, are totally incorrect and, if leftuncorrected, will
present a completely misleading picture.
It may well be that this project should be undertaken by the
FBI and Secret Service with our assistance instead of beingdone as a
staff project. Theimportant thing is that the project be undertaken
expeditiously.
The Evidence IS the Conspiracy
The SS and FBI place 4 shots in and around Z313 - just not Z313 - Chris Davidson - 13-01-2016
Chris Davidson Wrote:The 59 Impala is 17.5 ft long.
The Limo was 21.3 ft long.
What "mark" do you believe the pylons represented back in the early investigations?
chris
![[Image: 59%20Impala.png]](http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/59%20Impala.png)
Station# 5+17.5 - limo length (21.3ft) = Station# 4+96.2
Station# 4+96.2 = approx 4ft from Station# 5+00
Rear Bumper check CE875
chris
![[Image: Survey.jpg]](http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/Survey.jpg)
The SS and FBI place 4 shots in and around Z313 - just not Z313 - Chris Davidson - 13-01-2016
David Josephs Wrote:Chris -
Those cones, as well as the SS marking of the same photos, connects via a straight line from Zapruder thru the cone to either 1)where JFK was when the shot hit, 2) where the front of the limo was or 3) where the back of the limo was...
Regardless of which measurement used, JFK cannot be at the Z313 location related to any of those cones or street locations.
David,
To begin.
The pylon could represent the front of the limo.
The limo bumper represents the Station# where JFK was, within the limo.
Reread CE875.
chris
![[Image: 313.png]](http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/313.png)
The SS and FBI place 4 shots in and around Z313 - just not Z313 - David Josephs - 13-01-2016
Chris Davidson Wrote:Chris Davidson Wrote:The 59 Impala is 17.5 ft long.
The Limo was 21.3 ft long.
What "mark" do you believe the pylons represented back in the early investigations?
chris
Station# 5+17.5 - limo length (21.3ft) = Station# 4+96.2
Station# 4+96.2 = approx 4ft from Station# 5+00
Rear Bumper check CE875
chris
I think we're saying the same thing as you illustrate how moving from the front to rear of the limo will skew the measurements by up to 40 feet.
At 4+96 Altgens is about 15 feet from JFK and still not yet in front of the stairs. If the Rear of the limo is placed at the cones Hudson's comment about a shot directly in front of him rings true
yet there is another cone to the WEST of #2....
What do you think cone #3 means as well as the SS location of shots 2 and 3?
DJ
The SS and FBI place 4 shots in and around Z313 - just not Z313 - Chris Davidson - 13-01-2016
Same formula for cones 2 and 3.
The cones represent the front of the limo.
The rear bumper position represents JFK within the limo.
Altgen's 15ft is, close to directly in front of him, parallel in the street, hence the 4+96.2 Station# referred to in CE875 (about 4ft from Station# 5+00).
Attached shows WC298 position of the limo at cone3. Front of the limo at this spot = Station# 5+17.5.
![[Image: Cone3.jpg]](http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/Cone3.jpg)
The SS and FBI place 4 shots in and around Z313 - just not Z313 - David Josephs - 13-01-2016
So we agree then... Z313 could not possibly be the "final" shot but possibly the 2nd shot is much further down Elm.
Except the SS places the final shot at 4+96... the headshot
Why do these measurements not work with the SS shot #2 & #3 as placed in those images?
and where is the FBI cone #1...?
The SS and FBI place 4 shots in and around Z313 - just not Z313 - Chris Davidson - 14-01-2016
Yes, we agree. 313 was not the last shot.
As far as I'm concerned, the Altgen's shot (JFK'S POSITION IN LIMO) at Station# 4+96.2 ( approx 31ft farther west than z313-Station#4+65.3) is the last shot with any supporting documentation.
David, you appear to make a differentiation between shots 2+3 per the SS and FBI. I do not.
The pylons represent the limo front whether it's the SS recreation film or WC298/FBI charts. imo
Two separate shots. imo
chris
The SS and FBI place 4 shots in and around Z313 - just not Z313 - David Josephs - 14-01-2016
Chris Davidson Wrote:Yes, we agree. 313 was not the last shot.
As far as I'm concerned, the Altgen's shot (JFK'S POSITION IN LIMO) at Station# 4+96.2 ( approx 31ft farther west than z313-Station#4+65.3) is the last shot with any supporting documentation.
David, you appear to make a differentiation between shots 2+3 per the SS and FBI. I do not.
The pylons represent the limo front whether it's the SS recreation film or WC298/FBI charts. imo
Two separate shots. imo
chris
That makes alot of sense Chris... even though the evidence makes it appear as if there are 4 different shots, not 2.
In either case, that shot is not in the evidence we now have yet MUST have been in the evidence at some point for the FBI and SS to come to such a conclusion and do everything they did to hide it.
Add Chaney's evidence to the mix and we now must set off on showing how and when these alterations were accomplished in the extent evidence.
Hiding it within the math was fairly easy once you know the front bumper/back bumper sleight of hand involved...
Thanks for all your input and help....
DJ
The SS and FBI place 4 shots in and around Z313 - just not Z313 - Chris Davidson - 14-01-2016
David Josephs Wrote:Chris -
423.07 elevation for the "1st" shot as told in the legend is somewhere between Z255 and Z313.
The final shot's 416.83 elevation is nowhere near Z313 - in fact a 3 degree slope has a 19:1 rise/run means that 421.73 - 416.83 = 4.9 vertical feet lower.
What this means - I think - is that for every 1 foot of vertical decline the vahicle traveled 19 feet so that a spot at #3 in the graphics below would be 95 feet further down Elm than where this legend places Z313.
Regardless of speed, the run distance at a 3 degree angle is straight math... http://www.1728.org/gradient.htm
Help with some of the other items.
The Elm St. slope is 3degrees 8minutes = 3.13 degrees. Interesting in terms of a possible relationship with 313 zframes.
3.13 degrees = a ratio of 1FT vertical to 18.3FT horizontal. Interesting in terms of a possible relationship with a 18.3 frames per sec camera.
chris
![[Image: Slope.jpg]](http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/Slope.jpg)