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+--- Thread: The Sniper's Nest Corner boxes in the 6th floor Museum are wrong (/thread-14558.html)
The Sniper's Nest Corner boxes in the 6th floor Museum are wrong - Alan Ford - 10-03-2016
Class Act @ Mr. Alyea
Thanks for sharing your insightful info there, Mr. Bennett.
@Mr. Josephs: One can only wonder why the decoy firing position, further embellished by a clever museum distraction, was built from the inside out?!
I often wonder if the guns brought in the day before were a clever scheme/cover to sneak one up to the decoy position for later planting the next day?
I cannot imagine a genuine assassin taking precious time to build a phantom sniper's nest inside out, then taking additional time to plant, err, hide his rifle where it could be traced back to him (Everything about this case trumps there's something rotten in Denmark).
Amazing what some people will do for thirty pieces of silver.
The Sniper's Nest Corner boxes in the 6th floor Museum are wrong - David Josephs - 10-03-2016
Chris Bennett Wrote:David, I presume you've seen this interview with Thomas Alyea from 2013?
There are some really good quotes in there from his remembrance of the day. I wonder if anyone has seen his unpublished manuscript?
http://www.tulsaworld.com/tv-cameraman-filmed-aftermath/article_a5ead74b-5892-56af-acc6-aad37483cd7f.html
---
In what he calls "the sixth-floor scam," Alyea described a chaotic investigation that didn't exactly go by the book but was later "cleaned up" in official reports.
---
Alyea has long insisted that, contrary to officials reports, the chicken bones were found on the fifth floor, not the sixth.
Either way, the sack obviously had been there for days, with the bones completely dried out, Alyea said.
"They had absolutely nothing to do with anything," he said. "I took a close up, just in case they turned out to be important, but they weren't."
---
More significant to him, detectives moved boxes around while searching the building, even disturbing the sniper's nest itself, Alyea said.
The boxes were restacked before other journalists got access to the building, but they weren't put back exactly the same way, he said.
One box originally was tilted on the windowsill, where Oswald apparently rested the rifle on it to help him aim, Alyea said.
Later photos show the box sitting upright, suggesting a slightly higher angle for the fatal shot, he said.
The police also restacked other boxes higher and closer together,making the sniper's nest almost completely hidden, he said.
In fact, as the boxes were originally arranged, Oswald could've been seen from much of the sixth floor, had anybody else been there, Alyea said.
Thanks Chris - and yes, I have been aware of Alyea's contested info as long as Craig's. There's an old saying, "Never believe anything until it's been officially denied"
Watch the news, look back over time and you'll find this to be axiomatic.
What most are not aware of is that from Nov 22 thru Nov 25 they repeatedly went back to this area to "reconstruct" the way it looked when found...
Basically since it does not dawn on the novice Studebaker - or on purpose - no photos are taken before anything occurs on the 6th floor... Mooney, Fritz, Alyea's story, and then the Mauser.
Once again we come to find The Evidence IS the Conspiracy....
Mr. BALL. But you have had photography in your crime lab work?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. For how long?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Was about 2 months.
Mr. BALL. How long have you done photography altogether?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. In my lifetime?
Mr. BALL. No, as one of the assistants in the crime lab, what period of years?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. 2 months. I went to the crime lab in October, the 1st of October.
Mr. BALL. You did - had you done any photography before that?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Just home photography.
Mr. BALL. Were there any boxes on the ledge of this window?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you take some pictures showing those boxes?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Was that before any of them were moved?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. That picture right there is the one that shows them, and the other pictures show them before they were moved.
Mr. BALL. You mean Exhibit A and B?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. A and B.
the problem here is that there are images in the Dallas Archives which are close but not exactly the same http://texashistory.unt.edu/explore/collections/JFKDP/browse/?q=boxes&start=40&fq=dc_type%3Aimage_photo&t=metadata
As we can see in the image on the right, the column of boxes has already been removed for these photos - Studebaker's claim this was how the area was is false.
Imagine now those columns of boxes where the man's right leg is... One would think Ozzie's prints would be all over the boxes he moved into position, but not so much.
There was THIS PRINT though...
Mr. BELIN. So 733 represents a reconstruction in that sense, is that correct?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What about Exhibit----
Mr. DAY. This, by the way, was taken on November 25, 1963.
Mr. BELIN. In 724 there are boxes in the window. Were those boxes in the window the way you saw them, or had they been replaced in the window to reconstruct it?
Mr. DAY. They had simply been moved in the processing for prints. They weren't put back in any particular order.
Mr. BELIN. So 724 does not represent, so far as the boxes are concerned, the crime scene when you first came to the sixth floor; is that correct?
Mr. DAY. That is correct.
Mr. BELIN. Let me ask you this: Had all of the boxes of the stack in 724 been replaced there or had any of the boxes been in a position they were at the time you first arrived at the building, if you know?
Mr. DAY. No, sir; they had not been placed in the proper position or approximate position at the time we arrived.
The Sniper's Nest Corner boxes in the 6th floor Museum are wrong - Chris Bennett - 10-03-2016
David, what is your opinion of that fingerprint? I always thought that "discovery" was a non sequitur, or perhaps a plant if they were being very clever.
The Sniper's Nest Corner boxes in the 6th floor Museum are wrong - David Josephs - 10-03-2016
Chris Bennett Wrote:David, what is your opinion of that fingerprint? I always thought that "discovery" was a non sequitur, or perhaps a plant if they were being very clever.
Page 18 of this report gets into who's prints were found. If Ozzie built the nest and placed those 3 boxes on by the sill and sat on a 4th - how is it that non-Ozzie latent prints are found from those touching/carrying these boxes after the fact yet Ozzie leaves no prints while placing these boxes.
Personally - I'd find the hubris involved if LBJ and cronies had Mac Wallace up there moving boxes and/or planting a weapon and shells or whatever, is right in line with what we'd expect from LBJ's circle.
The print looks pretty darn close to me - I wouldn't put it past them.
A man in a brown sports coat and glasses was discussed by a number of witnesses - some describing a man they saw in the TSBD and others of a man running from the TSBD rear loading dock area.
Richard Carr
BY MR. GARRISON:
Q: You can go on and tell us what you observed, tell us what you observed and what you heard.
A: All right. As I stated before, I noticed this fellow in the window, and this gentleman, the pipefitter and myself, he made the statement to --
MR. DYMOND: I object to what the man made a statement concerning.
BY MR. GARRISON:
Q: You can say what you said.
A: I thought he was a Secret Agent man or an FBI man.
Q: What did the man in the window look like?
A: He had on a hat, a felt hat, a light hat, he had on heavy-rimmed glasses, dark, the glasses were heavy-rimmed, and heavy ear pieces on his glasses.
Q: Go ahead.
A: He had on a tie, he had on a light shirt, a tan sport coat.
http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKcarrR.htm
(1) Michael Kurtz, Crime of the Century: The Kennedy Assassination From a Historians Perspective (1982)
Richard Randolph Carr watched the motorcade from Houston and Commerce streets. Shortly before the shooting, he saw a man wearing a brown sport coat in an upper floor of the Book Depository building. A couple of minutes after the shooting, Carr saw this same man walking very fast heading south on Houston Street. After going around the block, the man entered a grey or green Rambler station wagon. Marvin Robinson was driving his car west on Elm Street about fifteen minutes after the shooting. He saw a man come down the grassy incline and enter a Rambler station wagon, which then drove away.
Mrs. James Forrest was standing in a group of people who had gathered on the incline near the Grassy Knoll. As she was standing, she saw a man suddenly run from the rear of the Depository building, down the incline, and then enter a Rambler station wagon. The man she saw running down and entering the station wagon strongly resembled Lee Harvey Oswald. "If it wasn't Oswald," Mrs. Forrest has declared, "it was his identical twin." The testimony of Walther, Worrel, Carr, Robinson, and Forrest all provide strong substantiation for Roger Craig's story...
Despite this impressive corroboration for Craig's testimony, the Warren Commission chose to reject it. Instead, it accepted the unsubstantiated and contradictory testimony of taxi driver William Whaley. There is no corroboration for Whaley's story. Whaley did tell the commission that when Oswald entered his cab, an elderly lady tried to enter it from the opposite side. Oswald volunteered to let her have the cab, but the lady refused because another taxi was waiting just behind Whaley's. There is no indication that the commission attempted to locate the other cab.
Mrs. James Forrest was standing in a group of people who had gathered on the incline near the Grassy Knoll. As she was standing, she saw a man suddenly run from the rear of the Depository building, down the incline, and then enter a Rambler station wagon. The man she saw running down and entering the station wagon strongly resembled Lee Harvey Oswald. "If it wasn't Oswald," Mrs. Forrest has declared, "it was his identical twin." The testimony of Walther, Worrel, Carr, Robinson, and Forrest all provide strong substantiation for Roger Craig's story...
Despite this impressive corroboration for Craig's testimony, the Warren Commission chose to reject it. Instead, it accepted the unsubstantiated and contradictory testimony of taxi driver William Whaley. There is no corroboration for Whaley's story. Whaley did tell the commission that when Oswald entered his cab, an elderly lady tried to enter it from the opposite side. Oswald volunteered to let her have the cab, but the lady refused because another taxi was waiting just behind Whaley's. There is no indication that the commission attempted to locate the other cab.
The Sniper's Nest Corner boxes in the 6th floor Museum are wrong - Alan Ford - 14-03-2016
An excellent thread all around, Mr. Josephs
In my reading I came across some curious prints. Curious for a couple of reasons: one, I didn't know prints of the nature I will share below could actually manifest, and How could the authorities be certain of matching the same to a specific individual ----->
*Credit: PT ----> http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth49495/?q=Seat%20Prints
In order to leave such an impression as shown, Is it safe to say the individual responsible here should have been captured in dirty pants as oppose to the clean ones attributed to Mr. Oswald in the National Archives...
The Sniper's Nest Corner boxes in the 6th floor Museum are wrong - David Josephs - 15-03-2016
Alan Ford Wrote:An excellent thread all around, Mr. Josephs
In my reading I came across some curious prints. Curious for a couple of reasons: one, I didn't know prints of the nature I will share below could actually manifest, and How could the authorities be certain of matching the same to a specific individual ----->
*Credit: PT ----> http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth49495/?q=Seat%20Prints
In order to leave such an impression as shown, Is it safe to say the individual responsible here should have been captured in dirty pants as oppose to the clean ones attributed to Mr. Oswald in the National Archives...
I've enjoyed you and Michael taking up the cause and wanted to say thanks again.
There is nothing from the DPD worth its weight in evidence. We have no idea where this is from or when.
All the evidence was taken by FBI SA Drain Friday night... More evidence came back than was taken...
The Evidence IS the Conspiracy
::coolrock::
The Sniper's Nest Corner boxes in the 6th floor Museum are wrong - Jim DiEugenio - 15-03-2016
David and Alan,
You both know that Joan Mellen's upcoming book is going to contest the whole Mac Wallace fingerprint issue, right?
So please do not talk about it and commit to it right now.
The Sniper's Nest Corner boxes in the 6th floor Museum are wrong - Drew Phipps - 15-03-2016
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:David and Alan,
You both know that Joan Mellen's upcoming book is going to contest the whole Mac Wallace fingerprint issue, right?
So please do not talk about it and commit to it right now.
I sure hope she's going to name her informant in the IAI so that he can be properly questioned regarding both his access to the files and his motivations. If not that, then at least produce the alleged document concerning A. Nathan Darby. Or is she simply going to smear his reputation without producing her evidence?
She will look like a fool if the IAI doesn't back up any unsubstantiated allegations...
The Sniper's Nest Corner boxes in the 6th floor Museum are wrong - Jim DiEugenio - 15-03-2016
What makes Alyea so interesting is this:
According to Larry Hancock, Alyea still thinks the WC is correct.
Even though he has supplied so much vital evidence showing that the DPD altered the crime scene evidence.
As any lawyer will tell you, that is very crucial in arguing a felony.
I mean, the whole idea of the sniper's nest was really important in incriminating Oswald. As was the dispersal pattern of the shells, which loons like Dale Myers still stand by. The FBI when they experimented with the MC rifle proved that it was just about impossible for the shells to be arranged in a very short dispersal pattern. Apparently that rifle had a very strong ejector mechanism to it. Because not only did the shell eject a long distance, but they then bounced off the floor a long distance.
It seems to me that Fritz was fully aware that what he was looking at was pre arranged. So Alyea says that either he or Studebaker picked up the shells and then threw them around.
Alyea is also really interesting on the arrangement of the boxes. He told Allan Eaglesham that nope, they were not like that when he first got up there. And he was the first civilian up there.
If this case ever gets reopened, he is an important witness.
The Sniper's Nest Corner boxes in the 6th floor Museum are wrong - Jim DiEugenio - 15-03-2016
If you want to get up to speed on this issue, please click here for Allan's excellent work with Tom Alyea on the sixth floor rearrangement:
http://www.manuscriptservice.com/SN/intro.htm