Magda Hassan Wrote:

David Guyatt Wrote:Did you think the Patriot Act, Homeland Security (de facto state security), institutional torture of the very worst kind, state sanctioned kidnapping (rendition), drone assassinations, para-militarization of the police, medical experiments on prisoners, the increasing cases of outright murder of citizens by the police, massive surveillance of the population etc., were ACTS of democracy for Christ's sake? All these were "fascist" in their design and implementation and your slept-walked through them.

The Nazi's would've wet themselves living in America since 9/11.

You've been dreaming through the last several decades and finally, finally, you've woken up to smell the coffee. But still you're not seeing the whole picture.

It beggars belief. It really does.

Oh, they all loved their 'progressive' Barak Drone Obama having all those executive privileges. Now not so much since it has been handed to Trump.

Cliff Varnell Wrote:

David Guyatt Wrote:

Cliff Varnell Wrote:I've said this before -- John Pilger knows fuck-all about America -- our people, our politics, our society.

In the midst of this victim-shaming, a touch of realpolitik:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/corey-lewandowski-james-comey_us_582dd4f7e4b058ce7aa97d7c

Corey Lewandowski Credits FBI Director James Comey With Helping Donald Trump Win

"With 11 days to go in this election cycle, something amazing happened."

We knew what we were getting with Clinton.

We knew what we were getting with Trump.

We knew that Trump would be infinitely worse, no matter how bad Clinton was.

What do you call it when, in a two party system, one party relentlessly investigates the other party's leaders over trivialities?

Fascism.

What do you call it when the top law enforcement officer in the country announces a bogus investigation into a candidate 11 days from an election?

Fascism.

We need to get this right.

I'm with Magda on this. 100%. You're posting your usual uninformed and emotional tosh.

Not only does Pilger know more than most Americans (who for me walk around in a willingly induced daze of ignorance) about US political life -- he knows more about US foreign affairs than you ever will. And whereas you don't regard foreign affairs with much interest, the fact is that it remains the absolute bedrock of US power and is the one thing the elite understand is the key to their continuation.

Which elite?

Your contention that I have little interest in foreign affairs is a contentless dismissal.

Your analyses lack nuance and true insight because you don't grasp the bi-polar nature of the American ruling elites.

Quote:And stop fooling yourself. America has not had a functioning two-party political system in the US for decades. The Demo-publican political system has been completely dominated by the wealthy elite who run America for their own benefit.

There is the corporate wing of the Democratic Party.

There is the corporate wing of the Republican Party.

Basically indistinguishable.

But the Democratic base is nothing like the Republican base.

Base Democrats stand up to the corporate wing on many occasions -- the Republican base never stands up to the corporatists in their own party.

The Democratic base has a chance to influence the corporatists -- a chance! -- but with a Republican President we stand no chance.

The Republican base is more interested in ushering in a Christian Republic, and the Republican Party caters to these bible-thumpers.

Quote:Fascism has been a long time coming and repeatedly discussed on this forum for a very long time too. Did you think the Patriot Act, Homeland Security (de facto state security), institutional torture of the very worst kind, state sanctioned kidnapping (rendition), drone assassinations, para-militarization of the police, medical experiments on prisoners, the increasing cases of outright murder of citizens by the police, massive surveillance of the population etc., were ACTS of democracy for Christ's sake?

No, the acts of democracy are in the on-going push back against those policies.

Organizations like the American Civil Liberties Union and Black Lives Matter actively fight against the militarization of police.

https://www.aclu.org/issues/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police-practices/police-militarization

In 2015 there was push back against mass surveillance with the passage of the Cybersecurity Act of 2015.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/02/politics/senate-usa-freedom-act-vote-patriot-act-nsa/

While it's true that Obama gave the National Security State the drone wars, the crackdown on whistle-blowers, the mis-adventures in Ukraine and Libya,
Obama out-maneuvered them to negotiate the removal of chemical weapons from Syria, nuke material from Iran, and began a diplomatic opening to Cuba.

None of those things would have happened under a Republican administration.

Cops are probably killing people of color as much as they ever have -- the difference is public awareness. The proliferation of cell phone cameras and social media have shined so much light on police criminality some cops are actually getting prosecuted for their crimes.

Quote:All these were "fascist" in their design and implementation and your slept-walked through them.

The Nazi's would've wet themselves living in America since 9/11.

Yes, because as we know the Nazis were famously tolerant of active protests.

They'd have loved Bernie and his people, eh?

Quote:You've been dreaming through the last several decades and finally, finally, you've woken up to smell the coffee. But still you're not seeing the whole picture.

It beggars belief. It really does.

Once again proving irony is alive and well.

Cliff Varnell Wrote:....
There is the corporate wing of the Democratic Party.

There is the corporate wing of the Republican Party.

Basically indistinguishable.

But the Democratic base is nothing like the Republican base.

Base Democrats stand up to the corporate wing on many occasions -- the Republican base never stands up to the corporatists in their own party, these GODavid, when you refer to "the elite" -- which elite?

Cliff Varnell Wrote:The Democratic base has a chance to influence the corporatists -- a chance! -- but with a Republican President we stand no chance.

Cliff Varnell Wrote:While it's true that Obama gave the National Security State the drone wars, the crackdown on whistle-blowers, the mis-adventures in Ukraine and Libya,
Obama out-maneuvered them to negotiate the removal of chemical weapons from Syria, nuke material from Iran, and began a diplomatic opening to Cuba.

Cliff Varnell Wrote:None of those things would have happened under a Republican administration.

Cliff Varnell Wrote:The USA is a Nazi wet dream?

Yes, because as we know the Nazis were famously tolerant of active protests.

They'd have loved Bernie and his people, eh?

Magda Hassan Wrote:[quote=Cliff Varnell]....
There is the corporate wing of the Democratic Party.

There is the corporate wing of the Republican Party.

Basically indistinguishable.

But the Democratic base is nothing like the Republican base.

Base Democrats stand up to the corporate wing on many occasions -- the Republican base never stands up to the corporatists in their own party, these GODavid, when you refer to "the elite" -- which elite?

Cliff Varnell Wrote:

Magda Hassan Wrote:[quote=Cliff Varnell]....
There is the corporate wing of the Democratic Party.

There is the corporate wing of the Republican Party.

Basically indistinguishable.

But the Democratic base is nothing like the Republican base.

Base Democrats stand up to the corporate wing on many occasions -- the Republican base never stands up to the corporatists in their own party, these GODavid, when you refer to "the elite" -- which elite?

Bullshit. The Dem 'base' are as stuck in their own mythology as the Republican base are in theirs. /QUOTE]


A slander on Bernie and his people.

Who the fuck do you think I'm referring to?

Bernie and the rest us didn't stand up?

Quote:

Obama's Hollow Legacy

by MARGARET KIMBERLEY

• Email
  

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Photo by Alex Barth | CC BY 2.0

Obama's legacy is in tatters, and that is good news. Donald Trump's victory was not just a win over Hillary Clinton, but against Democratic Party policies that silenced the rank and file. For years Democrats became convinced that the only means of keeping Republicans at bay was to go along with their party leadership without complaint. If they wanted to expand trade deals that stole workers' jobs, so be it. The people who marched against the invasion of Iraq folded their tents when Democrats became the party of endless war. When Obama promoted austerity and "grand bargains" with Republicans not a word was uttered. Even Black Lives Matter refused to point out that the Obama Justice Department left killer cops unpunished.
Barack Obama is nothing if not consistent. While Democrats take to the streets in protest against president elect Trump, Obama declares that the man he once called unfit is not an ideologue, but a "pragmatist." No one should be surprised about the conciliatory tone. Obama never had a problem with Republicans. They may have obstructed him, but he was always happy to assist them because he wasn't really opposed to their policies.
The most obvious example of Obama's lack of substance was his relationship with black Americans. His disdain and contempt for the people who loved him the most was clear to anyone who paid attention. Jokes about "cousin Pookie" and parents serving fried chicken for breakfast should have been seen as the racist screeds they clearly were. But the desire to see a black face in a prominent place endures to our detriment.
Obama won by making himself palatable to white people while also taking advantage of undeserved black pride. Hillary Clinton would be the president elect if the new voters who emerged in 2008 had remained committed to the Democratic Party. But their loyalty was to the imagery of Barack Obama as president. Their joy was confined to seeing him meet the queen of England alongside his first lady or disembarking from Air Force One with his signature swagger. The sight of Barack and Michelle hosting a state dinner was enough to make black hearts swoon. Policy initiatives need not intrude upon the love fest.
The end result of this unrequited and superficial love was six million fewer votes cast for Hillary Clinton in 2016 than for Obama in 2012. The apocryphal cousin Pookie stayed home and no one should be surprised. There is no secret to keeping voters engaged. They are engaged if their needs are met. Deliver for voters and they deliver in the voting booth.
Even the unpopular and shady Hillary Clinton could have won Michigan if the people of Flint had received the federal help they needed so badly. Not only did the Obama environmental protection agency allow the beleaguered city to be given contaminated water, but he showed up for a photo opportunity and did nothing else as residents suffered. He drank a glass of water, posed for the cameras and returned to Washington. The people of Flint are still living under conditions Americans think of as being "Third World."
The response to Trump's victory should mean more than protesting policies the Democrats now have little ability to fight. This moment presents an opportunity for much needed introspection and mea culpas. Millions of people did more than just accept Democratic Party policy. They supported actions they would have rejected if carried out by a Republican or a white Democrat. They supported Muammar Gaddafi when Republicans were president but averted their eyes to his murder when committed by a Democrat. They even voted for the person who bragged about the killing. Democratic voters must ask themselves why they said nothing when their party promoted trade deals that were against their interests. Ultimately that acquiescence led to defeat at Trump's hands.
The Obama team's propaganda skills were legendary but the day of reckoning revealed the emptiness of what they produced. The corporate media acted like scribes under White House direction and declared that Russia was an enemy state and its president a 21[SUP]st[/SUP]century Hitler. Now it is Donald Trump, the self-promoting reality television star, who declares his willingness to talk to his Russian counterpart. It is the sort of behavior that Democrats once valued.
Democratic presidents Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton began the tradition of getting Democrats to support what they didn't like. Obama perfected the art, which ultimately led to the debacle. He will certainly not be the last to tempt the party faithful but in 2016 Democrats sold their souls and ended up with nothing. Defeat creates the most hollow feelings of all.