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+--- Thread: The Pat Tillman Death: murdered by media access? (/Thread-The-Pat-Tillman-Death-murdered-by-media-access)
The Pat Tillman Death: murdered by media access? - Keith Millea - 28-09-2009
Quote:Imagine ... tens of thousands of active duty personnel and veterans marching through the streets of America, laying down their arms, telling the truth, vowing that they are done with the racket known as war ...
Yeah,but right NOW I can only imagine tens of thousands of troops in the streets with fixed bayonets and gas masks.
ecruity:
The Pat Tillman Death: murdered by media access? - Jan Klimkowski - 28-09-2009
Nathaniel Heidenheimer Wrote:I saw something on this as recently as two months ago. It was Tillman's parents commenting on how they completely mistrusted McChristal?sp Obamas new boss in Quagmiristan. He was the dude put in charge of the coverup if im not mistaken.
That would be interesting if verified.
The 31-year-old Major Colin Powell famously was the lead officer in the cover up of My Lai, and rapid promotion through the ranks followed.
"Expert on insurgency" is frequently a synonym for black ops participant.
In Powell's case, he was an operational player in the Phoenix Program.
The Pat Tillman Death: murdered by media access? - Magda Hassan - 29-09-2009
This might be what you read Nate.
McChrystal's Pat Tillman Connection
[B]By Dave Zirin[/B]
May 13, 2009
When NFL player-turned-Army Ranger Pat Tillman died at the hands of US troops in a case of "friendly fire," the spin machine at the Pentagon went into overdrive. Rumsfeld and company couldn't have their most high-profile soldier dying in such an inelegant fashion, especially with the release of those pesky photos from Abu Ghraib hitting the airwaves. So an obscene lie was told to Tillman's family, his friends and the American public. The chickenhawks in charge, whose only exposure to war was watching John Wayne movies, claimed that he died charging a hill and was cut down by the radical Islamic enemies of freedom. In the weeks preceding his death, Tillman was beginning to question what exactly he was fighting for, telling friends that he believed the war in Iraq was " [expletive] illegal." He may not have known what he was fighting for, but it's now clear what he died for: public relations. Today, after five years, six investigations and two Congressional hearings, questions still linger about how Tillman died and why it was covered up.
Now the man who greased the chain of command that orchestrated this great deception is prepared to assume total control of US operations in Afghanistan: Lt. Gen. Stanley McChrystal. It was McChrystal who approved Tillman's posthumous Silver Star, a medal given explicitly for combat, even though he later testified that he "suspected" friendly fire. Yet despite this, both Democrats and Republicans are rushing to heap praise on McChrystal, including Sen. John McCain. It was McCain who rushed to speak at Tillman's funeral and then, when the cover-up became known, pledged to help the Tillman family expose the truth. McCain later turned his back on the Tillmans when they raised the volume and demanded answers. As Pat's mother, Mary Tillman, said last year, "He definitely eased out of the situation. He didn't blatantly say he wouldn't help us, it's just that it became clear that he kind of drifted away."
And now the Tillman family, amidst bipartisan praise for Obama's new general, must once again raise the inconvenient truth.
Pat's father, Pat Tillman Sr., told the Associated Press, "I do believe that guy participated in a falsified homicide investigation."
Mary Tillman, who excoriated McChrystal in her book, Boots on the Ground by Dusk: My Tribute to Pat Tillman, said, "It is imperative that Lt. Gen. McChrystal be scrutinized carefully during the Senate hearings."
Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said in response:
We feel terrible for what the Tillman family went through, but this matter has been investigated thoroughly by the Pentagon, by the Congress, by outside experts, and all of them have come to the same conclusion: that there was no wrongdoing by Gen. McChrystal.
Morrell's statement has more spin than a washing machine powered by a V-8 engine. McChrystal has never explained why the early reports of Tillman's death were covered up, why his clothes and field journal were burned and destroyed on the scene or why Pat's brother Kevin, serving alongside him in the Rangers, was lied to on the spot. Even the cover-up was covered up. This should be a cause for dismissal--or indictment--not promotion. What particularly rankles about Obama's choice of McChrystal, whose background is in the nefarious and shadowy world of "black ops," is that his actions in the Tillman cover-up feel emblematic instead of exceptional.
When an anonymous Army interrogator "at great personal risk" blew the whistle to Esquire in August 2006 on an extensive torture enterprise at Camp Nama, he described the then unknown McChrystal as being an overseer who knew the ugly truth. Torture at Camp Nama included using ice water to induce hypothermia. It was not a rogue operation unless we consider Generals like McChrystal "rogues." As Esquire reported:
Once, somebody brought it up with the colonel. "Will [the Red Cross] ever be allowed in here?" And he said absolutely not. He had this directly from General McChrystal and the Pentagon that there's no way that the Red Cross could get in--they won't have access and they never will. This facility was completely closed off to anybody investigating, even Army investigators.
Later in the piece, when asked where the colonel was getting his orders from the interrogator said, "I believe it was a two-star general. I believe his name was General McChrystal. I saw him there a couple of times." Clearly President Obama is trying to "own" the war in Afghanistan: upping the troop levels, making it his "central front" in the battle against terrorism and now placing his own general in charge. But the president is also disappointing a generation of antiwar activists who voted for him expecting an end to imperial adventures and torture sanctioned by the executive branch. Now a man who should perhaps be on trial at the Hague is in charge of Afghanistan. Obama needs to know it's not just the Tillmans who are enraged by this terrible choice.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090525/zirin2
The Pat Tillman Death: murdered by media access? - Jan Klimkowski - 29-09-2009
Magda - good work. :top:
I've fixed my quote:
Quote:"Expert on insurgency" is, in McChrystal's case, a synonym for black ops participant.
Following in Colin Powell's footsteps....
The Pat Tillman Death: murdered by media access? - Keith Millea - 30-09-2009
What this all tells me,is that Obama is NOT in control of his Military.In earlier days,Gen.McChrystal would have been reprimanded harshly.This reprimand would be lodged in his file to make certain that he would never be promoted to higher rank.His Military career would have been finished,and retirement the best option.But alas,we live in the alternate world now,where up is down,in is out,etc.Obama should have studied the real history behind his choice for Sec.Defense,"Robert Gates".I remember when Obama was taking on Hillary in the primaries.The long time civil rights activist Andrew Young said Obama was too young(inexperienced) to run for President.I thought "shut up",you just want Hillary to win.I'm now thinking that Andrew Young knows a hellava lot more about politics than I.
The Pat Tillman Death: murdered by media access? - Keith Millea - 30-09-2009
Gore Vidal sort of makes my point.
Quote:“I was hopeful,” he said of Mr Obama. “He was the most intelligent person we’ve had in that position for a long time. But he’s inexperienced. He has a total inability to understand military matters. He’s acting as if Afghanistan is the magic talisman: solve that and you solve terrorism.”
Quote:As for his wider vision: "Maybe he doesn't have one, not to imply he is a fraud. He loves quoting Lincoln and there's a great Lincoln quote from a letter he wrote to one of his generals in the South after the Civil War. ‘I am President of the United States. I have full overall power and never forget it, because I will exercise it'. That's what Obama needs - a bit of Lincoln's chill."
:wavey:
The Pat Tillman Death: murdered by media access? - Helen Reyes - 01-10-2009
On the Tillman death, yes, the coverage was so spotty as to be incoherent. I listen to KGO talkradio in San Francisco a bit. Tillman was a 49er I guess. KGO used to be the "Home of the 49ers" I believe. Anyway, what I've heard over the years is that the clothes he was wearing showed he was shot at point-blank range. Not sure how or why, but that's the story. The other thing is the letters home (presumably censored or at least read by the military) expressed dissatisfaction wit the moral position of the US in Afghanistan and allegedly contained a vow to spill the beans when he got back home. The general drift is he was fragged by fellow soldiers or special ops acting under orders.
Remember US pilots killed a whole mess of Canadians in Afghanistan. The excuse ended up being they were all high on GI issued amphetamines. Sounds better than twinkies I suppose.
Right now there is this song and dance going on in Washington between Obama and the Pentagon over troop numbers for Afghanistan. Bush set the precedent of abandoning his post as commander-in-chief in the name of allowing the "generals in the field" to tell him what they needed by way of troops. Right now McCrystal, if that IS his real name, is demanding too many and Obama is giving too few, the story goes. According to some US insurgency document, the number should be around 500,000 for a successful counter-insurgency. Either way, Obama is committed to the illegal occupation of Afghanistan, so the whole debate on numbers seems designed for public consumption, so Obama can say "Look, I'm trying, but I'm being opposed by the Hawks." It allows his administration to maintain some kind of credibility with the Left they betrayed, along with the rumor he will be assassinated if he doesn't go along with the military-industrial complex's interests.
The Pat Tillman Death: murdered by media access? - Keith Millea - 01-10-2009
Helen,
Pat Tillman was with the Arizona Cardinals,not the 49ers.He was from the Santa Clara area I think,so he has a Bay Area connection.Tillman was shot 3 times in the forehead,probably blowing off most of his head.So,I can't see where burning his clothes/flak jacket would make any sense.:dontknow:
Since I don't watch television anymore,I've been listening to the radio lately.I just discovered that I can get KGO,but only at night.It was real interesting to hear "old voices" again.Dr.Ben Wattenberg still there,who would have guessed after so many years.I wonder if Ray Taglifaro still does the late nighter.He was great.
The Pat Tillman Death: murdered by media access? - Helen Reyes - 02-10-2009
Keith Millea Wrote:Helen,
Pat Tillman was with the Arizona Cardinals,not the 49ers.He was from the Santa Clara area I think,so he has a Bay Area connection.Tillman was shot 3 times in the forehead,probably blowing off most of his head.So,I can't see where burning his clothes/flak jacket would make any sense.:dontknow:
Since I don't watch television anymore,I've been listening to the radio lately.I just discovered that I can get KGO,but only at night.It was real interesting to hear "old voices" again.Dr.Ben Wattenberg still there,who would have guessed after so many years.I wonder if Ray Taglifaro still does the late nighter.He was great.
Oops. I don't really follow sports at all. KGO has a monster signal at night, but you can listen on the internet stream all the time, http://www.kgoam810.com
A few of the old people are gone, one died recently, and there was this guy who said he was going to kick Palin's ass or something and got fired. Ray is still fighting for Obama, but has started to criticize the lack of an end to wars. Ray and Bernie Ward were early and strong voices against both wars. Bernie got sent to federal prison where he sits now.
This station ha s had a lot about Tillman over the years, but like I said, it's too sparse for me to make a lot of sense out of it. No idea where he was shot or why they burned his clothes and diary, but you could always just call Ray and ask, these people make a living out of keeping these things straight. 415 808-0810 one to 5 AM PST Monday-Friday
The Pat Tillman Death: murdered by media access? - Keith Millea - 02-10-2009
Yeah,I heard about Bernies troubles.I didn't know that he was in the PEN.Good luck Bernie(don't bend over to pick up the soap in the shower).
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