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+--- Thread: Recovered history: Top kennedy military aide says lbj was badly shaken after assassination (/thread-2513.html)
Recovered history: Top kennedy military aide says lbj was badly shaken after assassination - Myra Bronstein - 03-11-2009
Phil Dragoo Wrote:Charles
I had not realized LBJ held the departure for the purpose you mentioned, but the hypothesis opens another possible venue for alteration.
Ridicule and denial to the contrary notwithstanding, David Lifton posited the transference of the body from the casket in the cabin to parts unknown of the aircraft. Drop shipment to Walter Reed to follow.
...
Right Phil. I think Lifton presents a very convincing case.
Phil Dragoo Wrote:...
In Craig Roberts' Kill Zone: A Sniper Looks at Dealey Plaza the author prints two page-size diagrams of the aircraft type of tail number 26000, Air Force One in that era.
Roberts shows a floor hatch from the compartment where the casket was, to the rear cargo compartment with its hatch on the right side.
...
Oh, I had no idea Roberts covered that subject. Thanks.
Phil Dragoo Wrote:...
Mary Ferrell (http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Body_Alteration) relates a very interesting paragraph:
Quote:Roberts claims a helicopter made a hot pickup from the right side of 26000 while attention was focused on the left and the party in the scissors-lift truck.
Military chatter aboard Air Force One made repeated reference to the need for a forklift to be brought to the right front of the plane, where the "first lady" would depart. But Mrs. Kennedy left the plane with everyone else from the left rear.
...
A forklift at Love Field/Dallas, right?
Recovered history: Top kennedy military aide says lbj was badly shaken after assassination - Charles Drago - 03-11-2009
Phil Dragoo Wrote:In Craig Roberts' Kill Zone: A Sniper Looks at Dealey Plaza the author prints two page-size diagrams of the aircraft type of tail number 26000, Air Force One in that era.
Roberts shows a floor hatch from the compartment where the casket was, to the rear cargo compartment with its hatch on the right side.
If memory serves, it was at a Lancer conference in Dallas that a presenter attempted to debunk Lifton by presenting a video taken aboard the Kennedy 707 in its then-current, open-to-the-public location. In it he demonstrated that there is no hatch that opens beneath the fuselage.
Which might have been a clever act of mis-direction.
Recovered history: Top kennedy military aide says lbj was badly shaken after assassination - Phil Dragoo - 03-11-2009
Charles
Regarding the video trip to Hoffa's safe, I can only refer to what I find in Craig Roberts' text on page 74:
Quote:
As soon as I saw a diagram of the interior of AF-1 (26000) provided in Best Evidence, I knew how it must have been accomplished. It is only because I used to work on Boeing 707s that I had the missing clue. But to be positive, I pulled my old 707 maintenance guides from my library archives and opened them to the cutaway diagrams of the aircraft.
I was right.
Just to the right of where the casket was placed is a trap door that drops down into the aft baggage compartment!
It is no secret that the door, known as the "Aft Cargo Compartment Ceiling Access Panel," exists. Diagrams of every access panel and every hatch and door of the airplane are in every maintenance manual. The general knowledge of the existence of this particular access point, however, is not apparent as it is hidden beneath the carpet.
Roberts prints the diagrams on pages 194-5, and a letter from Air Force historian Thomas E. Pennington 6 Apr 92 on pages 197-8 confirming tail number 26000 as the aircraft which was used that day.
I understand that some have raised objections to Lifton on matters unknown to me until recently, as I had no contact with his work since reading Best Evidence circa 1997. Be that as it may, Roberts may be contacted through his website of riflewarrior.com.
I know he was attested to by John Carman of customscorruption.com, and I have found Roberts' citation of the following to be killer:
Kill Zone: A Sniper Looks at Dealey Plaza Craig Roberts page 89:
Quote:
According to my friend, Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock, the former senior instructor for the U.S. Marine Corps Sniper Instructor School at Quantico, Virginia, it could not be done as described by the FBI investigators. Gunny Hathcock, now retired, (since died) is the most famous American military sniper in history. In Vietnam he was credited with 93 confirmed kills—and a total of over 300 actual kills counting those unconfirmed. He now conducts police SWAT team sniper schools across the country. When I called him to ask if he had seen the Zapruder film, he chuckled and cut me off. “Let me tell you what we did at Quantico,” he began. “We reconstructed the whole thing: the angle, the range, the moving target, the time limit, the obstacles, everything. I don’t know how many times we tried it, but we couldn’t duplicate what the Warren Commission said Oswald did. Now if I can’t do it, how in the world could a guy who was a non-qual on the rifle range and later only qualified ‘marksman’ do it?”
Recovered history: Top kennedy military aide says lbj was badly shaken after assassination - Myra Bronstein - 04-11-2009
Phil Dragoo Wrote:...
I know he was attested to by John Carman of customscorruption.com, and I have found Roberts' citation of the following to be killer:
Kill Zone: A Sniper Looks at Dealey Plaza Craig Roberts page 89:
Quote:
According to my friend, Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock, the former senior instructor for the U.S. Marine Corps Sniper Instructor School at Quantico, Virginia, it could not be done as described by the FBI investigators. Gunny Hathcock, now retired, (since died) is the most famous American military sniper in history. In Vietnam he was credited with 93 confirmed kills—and a total of over 300 actual kills counting those unconfirmed. He now conducts police SWAT team sniper schools across the country. When I called him to ask if he had seen the Zapruder film, he chuckled and cut me off. “Let me tell you what we did at Quantico,” he began. “We reconstructed the whole thing: the angle, the range, the moving target, the time limit, the obstacles, everything. I don’t know how many times we tried it, but we couldn’t duplicate what the Warren Commission said Oswald did. Now if I can’t do it, how in the world could a guy who was a non-qual on the rifle range and later only qualified ‘marksman’ do it?”
I absolutely have to read this book.
Recovered history: Top kennedy military aide says lbj was badly shaken after assassination - Bernice Moore - 04-11-2009
[size=12]http://www.police-writers.com/craig_roberts.html
Craig Roberts has written eleven books with titles like: “Kill Zone: A Sniper Looks at Dealey Plaza,” “The Medusa File” and “Combat Medic – Vietnam: They went to war to fight – for life.”
According to the book description of Crosshairs on the Kill Zone: American Combat Snipers, Vietnam through Operation Iraqi Freedom, “From the authors of the classic sniper chronicle One Shot-One Kill comes a new generation of true tales from some of the most expert and deadly marksmen in the world. Meet Adelbert Waldron II, whose 109 confirmed kills in Vietnam made him the most successful sniper in American military history, and Tom "Moose" Ferran, who coined the term "Fetch!", whereupon the infantry would retrieve the sniper's dead quarry. Also included are stories from snipers in Beirut, the Bosnian conflict, and both wars with Iraq -- including the feat of Sergeants Joshua Hamblin and Owen Mulder, who took down thirty-two enemy soldiers in a single day outside Baghdad in 2003.
The military sniper has evolved into one of the most dangerous and highly-skilled warrior professions. They suffer through weather, terrain, and enemy action, lay unmoving for days on end, and take out their targets with unerring accuracy -- proving that the deadliest weapon in any battle, anywhere in the world, is a single well-aimed shot.”b
[/SIZE]
Recovered history: Top kennedy military aide says lbj was badly shaken after assassination - Bernice Moore - 04-11-2009
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/01/us/01swindal.html?_r=2
....for JAMES B. SWINDALL, the USAF Colonel and Air Force One pilot
on 11-22-63, it states,
"Soon afterward, the Secret Service communications gear on Air
Force One went dead."
Thread : Soon afterward, the SS communications, gear on AF 1 went dead..
Some excerpts from Manchester's book:
P. 263: The Presidential party's rear echelon at the airport didn't know what had happened at the hospital, and the best informed among them had only the haziest notion of the motorcade's movements after 12:30 P.M. The last transmissions the aircraft had received from downtown Dallas had been Kellerman's alarm and Robert's 'Have Dagger cover Volunteer". Then the plane's Charlie set had gone dead. Swindal had gathered that there was an emergency of some sort, but he could only speculate.......Because of theCharlie blackout, and because the Signalmen who could operate the more complex equipment were all in the terminal restaurant (no one aboard remembered the UPI and AP teletype machines) Swindal had turned to the stateroom television set.....
P. 266: In 26000's communications hack Johns made a discovery which was to grow in importance over the next hour. Jerry Behn, thanks to Colonel McNally's electronic sorcery, was now in direct telephone communication with the plane through the Signal Corps switchboards in the Sheraton-Dallas and Hotel Texas. The link meant that the government in the capital needn't be a slave to television. Furthermore, the splice between the White House and the plane made two-way conversations possible.
P. 267: ...Learning from the agents of the Vice Presidential detail that the communications shack was in contact with Washington, he eagerly looked around for telephones. The closest one hung from a hook on the other side of the aisle. He ignored it. Possbily he could not yet bring himself to sit at Kennedy's stateroom desk, though the more plausible explanation is that he wanted solitude. In any event,...
P. 268: ..the instrument he did use was on another, smaller Presidential desk,in Kennedy's quarters.
It goes on to explain that though communications were restored, none of the conversations while the plane was still on the tarmac were recorded because that gear didn't work unless the engines were running. They were not recorded until 2:47 pm.
Hope this helps.
Thanks,
Phil.
Here's some of Fred Boring's interview in which he discusses the WHC system and Charlie net.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=3
B..
Recovered history: Top kennedy military aide says lbj was badly shaken after assassination - Bernice Moore - 04-11-2009
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Recovered history: Top kennedy military aide says lbj was badly shaken after assassination - Bernice Moore - 04-11-2009
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Recovered history: Top kennedy military aide says lbj was badly shaken after assassination - Bernice Moore - 04-11-2009
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Recovered history: Top kennedy military aide says lbj was badly shaken after assassination - Bernice Moore - 04-11-2009
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