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+--- Thread: The Chicago Plot: A Hypothesis (/Thread-The-Chicago-Plot-A-Hypothesis)
The Chicago Plot: A Hypothesis - Charles Drago - 01-02-2011
Jim,
I could not agree with you more heartily regarding the Chicago evidence. My hypothesis has ZERO effect on its immense significance.
Ditto the "shameful" handling of Black's piece by rather, well, shameful people.
In re Bill's Rex and November 1 triple header hypothesis: I've long said that "consider the timing" is for our investigations what "follow the money" was for Watergate: a directing mantra. So I share your sense of the general significance of these connected phenomena.
It's just that I remain at a loss to understand how the Kelly hypothesis falsifies the Drago hypothesis in this instance.
BTW, a few years ago I found the Black piece on a now-forgotten Internet site. It was my first reading of it, and I thought it ended abruptly at a point where, if memory serves, Black is writing about returning to Chicago.
Are you able to direct us to an on-line version of the piece?
Thanks,
Charles
The Chicago Plot: A Hypothesis - Albert Doyle - 01-02-2011
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:The Chicago plot was clearly designed very similarly to Dallas. Down to a patsy who is some ways was even better than Oswald. Why would they blow it up on purpose?
It's possible they didn't and the accidental stumbling-in and finding of the rifles actually was an accident. But look at the tightness of the Dallas operation and look at the stupid leaving of the sniper rifles right out in the open in Chicago. However, if you compare Chicago to Dallas there wasn't the accompanying pantheon of evil actors in attendance like there was in Dallas. The wheels seem to be turning more in relation to Dallas than Chicago. The Book Depository was more like Milteer's "tall building" than Vallee's apartment. It's possible this was a dry run. Oswald was taken into the TSBD long before the November 2nd Chicago plan. That means there was a plan to shoot from the TSBD in the works well enough in advance for there to have been a Dallas plot. The assassination is so deviously planned that Milteer is set-up to speak about a shooting from a building to a wired informer in order to put Oswald in that building as the shooter. There's very little separation between police, informers, plotters, and shooters. The advantage is squarely with the string pullers with many possibilities of latitudinal manipulation.
The answer could be as simple as what was already written. Chicago was designed to make right-wing, Cuban exile infiltrator "Lee" think he was involved in stopping assassination attempts by the group he was assigned to. Oswald could have been a double agent of sorts for CIA/FBI internal affairs where those in the Shaw/Banister group knew he was a false defector but didn't know he was being used to report on the exile group. Oswald is given enough information to know about the Chicago plot and reports it according to his duties. He then thinks he's a genuine operative playing an important role in presidential security. He then dutifully follows orders the day of the Assassination.
Vallee wasn't as thoroughly sheep-dipped as Oswald was as a red. Vallee didn't talk to head of KGB assassinations a few weeks earlier. This thing was going to Dallas from the start. Though it is possible Vallee was a failsafe in case Oswald got caught after Mexico.
The Chicago Plot: A Hypothesis - Charles Drago - 01-02-2011
Albert Doyle Wrote:The answer could be as simple as what was already written. Chicago was designed to make right-wing, Cuban exile infiltrator "Lee" think he was involved in stopping assassination attempts by the group he was assigned to. Oswald could have been a double agent of sorts for CIA/FBI internal affairs where those in the Shaw/Banister group knew he was a false defector but didn't know he was being used to report on the exile group. Oswald is given enough information to know about the Chicago plot and reports it according to his duties. He then thinks he's a genuine operative playing an important role in presidential security. He then dutifully follows orders the day of the Assassination.
Interesting, Albert.
I've yet to go down the road you're traveling. My original thoughts about this topic had LHO wholly uninvolved with Chicago. What he likely had been reporting were elements of what turned out to be the Dallas operation -- which were then written off by conspirators as Chicago-related data misinterpreted by Agent Oswald.
Other, non-LHO related Dallas leaks were recast as Chicago leaks. The Chicago "plot" was foiled, almost everyone was reassured -- including JFK -- and relatively speaking stood down. Dallas was on.
Would LHO have been taken in by such a ruse? Informed of it?
More speculation is called for, I suppose. But for now I'm going with LHO as Dallas-centric in his pre-assassination penetrations.
Nothing carved in stone here. Or even in Stone.
Albert Doyle Wrote:Vallee wasn't as thoroughly sheep-dipped as Oswald was as a red. Vallee didn't talk to head of KGB assassinations a few weeks earlier. This thing was going to Dallas from the start.
Very good. This and other elements of Chicago appear as veneer, absent the sub-texts and other complexities of the One True Plot.
One more point bears repeating: The sheer number of Chicago/Dallas mirror images are what for me give away the game. Right down to Lee/Vallee.
Two (or more) LHOs, post mortems, caskets, brains, official investigations, official conclusions ... for starters. Bear witness to the doppelganger gambit in full flower.
Should we be surprised to learn that there were two (or more) plots being staged?
The Chicago Plot: A Hypothesis - John Kowalski - 01-02-2011
Charles Drago Wrote:Jim,
I could not agree with you more heartily regarding the Chicago evidence. My hypothesis has ZERO effect on its immense significance.
Ditto the "shameful" handling of Black's piece by rather, well, shameful people.
In re Bill's Rex and November 1 triple header hypothesis: I've long said that "consider the timing" is for our investigations what "follow the money" was for Watergate: a directing mantra. So I share your sense of the general significance of these connected phenomena.
It's just that I remain at a loss to understand how the Kelly hypothesis falsifies the Drago hypothesis in this instance.
BTW, a few years ago I found the Black piece on a now-forgotten Internet site. It was my first reading of it, and I thought it ended abruptly at a point where, if memory serves, Black is writing about returning to Chicago.
Are you able to direct us to an on-line version of the piece?
Thanks,
Charles
The link below has Edwin' Black's article about the Chicago plot that was published in the Chicago Independent in November, 1975.
http://www.blackopradio.com/The%20Chicago%20Plot%20by%20Edwin%20Black.pdf
John.
The Chicago Plot: A Hypothesis - Charles Drago - 01-02-2011
Great thanks, John.
This is the site on which I originally located the piece.
But please note: The Table of Contents indicates that Black's final section begins on page 35 of the magazine. The last posted page is 24.
Jim D., have you read a lengthier version?
Anyone?
Can anyone point us to a complete article (if that depicted on the provided link is indeed incomplete)?
The Chicago Plot: A Hypothesis - Albert Doyle - 01-02-2011
I just wanted to get in that the cops would have moved on this obvious evidence long ago if the tables were turned. They wouldn't have waited for the perfect crystal china shop of perfectly constructed evidence.
CD: "Would LHO have been taken in by such a ruse? Informed of it?"
He would have had no choice. How was he going to combat it? Who would he have gone to? Hurt? Pistol-whipping Banister? The powerless exiles? Ruby?
I think the Dallas Police Station is also more simple than it looks. I believe DPD knew Oswald was CIA. I think they deliberately cooperated with Oswald in the police station biding their time. Just look at what they did with the Paines' evidence.
Of all the levels of suspect possible in the US one of the highest is presidential assassin. Only a fearless buffoon would casually suggest the statements of a presidential assassin were never recorded over a two day period. This is evidence DPD were cooperating.
If you study Ruby's background as the mob's pay-off go between with Dallas Police you begin to understand his presence in the police station during the press conference was not an accident. Ruby was friends with the cops and was in there because they knew Ruby was associated with Oswald. They probably even saw him in Ruby's back office when they went in to collect their pay-off envelopes.
From observing Oswald I believe he was going along with a plan to blow his legal case. DPD was constantly parading Oswald around while he visibly protested over and over that he was being denied legal representation. The no note-taking Dallas cops then make the critical mistake of arraigning Oswald without a lawyer - a potential case-destroying mistake. Oswald maintains his cover because he's confident his being on the second floor will exonerate him anyway. This is all covered by the illusion DPD are prosecuting an assassination suspect, meanwhile they are really cooperating with a known CIA undercover operative. Oswald is fully in on this thinking it is CIA covering his ass. He plays his role by constantly announcing he is being given no legal representation. When offered a local Dallas lawyer he refuses and requests a famous communist defender Abt - who CIA is well aware will be at his country weekend home and not available for the weekend. Oswald is strung-along in limbo still loyally playing his role and not breaking cover. He feels safe saying "now they will know everything" because he's amongst cops who already know what he's talking about. The message is more to them than anyone else. Finally Ruby issues the final solution, as Oswald's last expression is that of painful shock over betrayal.
The only thing that would complicate this is potential permutations involving doubles. But that only reinforces their usefulness and purpose in the first place.
Lone Nutters have profited from dragging this out into the legal evidence quagmire. It's probably why they've managed to stymie any progress on this for so many decades. In my view the public would probably be more influenced by people who put it straight and on a common sense level.
.
The Chicago Plot: A Hypothesis - Jack White - 01-02-2011
Albert Doyle Wrote:I just wanted to get in that the cops would have moved on this obvious evidence long ago if the tables were turned. They wouldn't have waited for the perfect crystal china shop of perfectly constructed evidence.
CD: "Would LHO have been taken in by such a ruse? Informed of it?"
He would have had no choice. How was he going to combat it? Who would he have gone to? Hurt? Pistol-whipping Banister? The powerless exiles? Ruby?
I think the Dallas Police Station is also more simple than it looks. I believe DPD knew Oswald was CIA. I think they deliberately cooperated with Oswald in the police station biding their time. Just look at what they did with the Paines' evidence.
Of all the levels of suspect possible in the US one of the highest is presidential assassin. Only a fearless buffoon would casually suggest the statements of a presidential assassin were never recorded over a two day period. This is evidence DPD were cooperating.
If you study Ruby's background as the mob's pay-off go between with Dallas Police you begin to understand his presence in the police station during the press conference was not an accident. Ruby was friends with the cops and was in there because they knew Ruby was associated with Oswald. They probably even saw him in Ruby's back office when they went in to collect their pay-off envelopes.
From observing Oswald I believe was going along with a plan to blow his legal case. DPD was constantly parading Oswald around while he visibly protested over and over that he was being denied legal representation. The no note-taking Dallas cops then make the critical mistake of arraigning Oswald without a lawyer - a potential case-destroying mistake. Oswald maintains his cover because he's confident his being on the second floor will exonerate him anyway. This is all covered by the illusion DPD are prosecuting an assassination suspect, meanwhile they are really cooperating with a known CIA undercover operative. Oswald is fully in on this thinking it is CIA covering his ass. He plays his role by constantly announcing he is being given no legal representation. When offered a local Dallas lawyer he refuses and requests a famous communist defender Abt - who CIA is well aware will be at his country weekend home and not available for the weekend. Oswald is strung-along in limbo still loyally playing his role and not breaking cover. He feels safe saying "now they will know everything" because he's amongst cops who already know what he's talking about. The message is more to them than anyone else. Finally Ruby issues the final solution, as Oswald's last expression is that of painful shock over betrayal.
The only thing that would complicate this is potential permutations involving doubles. But that only reinforces their usefulness and purpose in the first place.
Lone Nutters have profited from dragging this out into the legal evidence quagmire. It's probably why they've managed to stymie any progress on this for so many decades. In my view the public would probably be more influenced by people who put it straight and on a common sense level.
.
Thanks for "thinking outside of the box."
Jack
The Chicago Plot: A Hypothesis - Charles Drago - 01-02-2011
Very cool, Albert.
If I'm not with you all the way it isn't because I reject your use of the imagination's deep resources.
I'm very curious: Where would LHO's "I'm just a patsy!" public plea fit into your extraordinary rendition -- sorry -- of events?
You're helping this thread to move in the very direction I intended for it. Thanks.
The Chicago Plot: A Hypothesis - Albert Doyle - 02-02-2011
Charles Drago Wrote:I'm very curious: Where would LHO's "I'm just a patsy!" public plea fit into your extraordinary rendition -- sorry -- of events?
Elementary my dear Drago. Oswald knows only one role. That of New Orleans Fair Play For Cuba Committee agitator and agent provocateur. He is simply maintaining that role in the Dallas Police station, which means he really is Garrison's hero and patriot and really would have gone all the way and taken the rap without blowing his cover. Little did he know the men he was being loyal to and trusted were in the process of betraying him and planning his murder.
.
The Chicago Plot: A Hypothesis - Charles Drago - 02-02-2011
Alimentary, my dear Doyle.
I find a bit of this difficult to swallow and impossible to void
But first, I don't think the use of doppelgangers in the patsying stage of the plot argues against your hypothesis. In fact, it may offer support.
To these ears, LHO's "I'm just a patsy!" exclamation is that of a man who already has realized that he's been betrayed -- at least by some of his ostensible colleagues/superiors -- and is sending a "do the right thing or I'll say a lot more" message.
In any event, I find your DPD "cooperating with a known CIA undercover operative" construction to be fascinating and even novelistic in the best sense of the term.