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+--- Thread: JFK Assassination: The Quintessential 'False Flag' Operation (/Thread-JFK-Assassination-The-Quintessential-False-Flag-Operation)
JFK Assassination: The Quintessential 'False Flag' Operation - Magda Hassan - 15-02-2011
Trowbridge it is not just you and Charles here. Why don't you post the evidence? You need to post the evidence if you are presenting new evidence.
JFK Assassination: The Quintessential 'False Flag' Operation - Trowbridge H. Ford - 15-02-2011
I know that this thread is not just about me and Charles.
What evidence do you have in mind? Would you like to know more about Peter Wright's, Anatoliy Golitsyn's and Richard Helms' role in the conspiracy?
Or how about Robert Baskin's pieces in The Dallas Morning News on October 20, 1963, stating that the Cuban Missile Crisis was starting to resume just 13 months after it was suspended, and that someone was sending threatening postcards from Irving, Dallas and Fort Worth, Texas to Richard Nixon and Dallas Representative Bruce Alger?
Or how about Captain Joe Glenn Hyde, Jr. - allegedly shot down just a month later over Cuba and was never found, actually having been given a new identity, Horace White, and remarrying his alleged widow?
Or how about the story in the DMN on the day of the assassination, announcing that visitor Nixon needed no protection, entitled "Guard not for Nixon", a story pushed on the upper right-hand corner of the front page?
Just tell me what else you want to know.
JFK Assassination: The Quintessential 'False Flag' Operation - Charles Drago - 15-02-2011
Sorry, Trowbridge, but either we're using two very different editions of The Search for the Manchurian Candidate, or you're confusing your source materials, or you're making the whole thing up.
This morning I closely examined the Times Book first edition of 1979.
The material which you claim can be found on pages 202-203 simply is not there.
The "last" Chapter 11 footnote which you claim can be found on page 244 is even more problematic. John Marks did not number his footnotes. And the final page of the above-referenced volume is Index page 242.
There are five Index references to JFK -- none of which address issues relating to his assassination.
And the only reference to "Oswald, Lee Harvey" comes on page 145, within a discussion of the Nosenko defection.
To extend to you the benefit of the doubt, I've just ordered the 1991 Norton paperback edition, which includes an Introduction by Thomas Powers that is not in the first hardcover edition.
Amazon.com provides access to the paperback's Table of Contents and Index. Other than a difference in pagination attributable to the addition of the Introduction, there is no indication whatsoever that textual changes are present that would account for the disparities between your citations and reality.
Again ... I've ordered the paperback. As soon as it arrives I'll review it carefully. If your citations pan out, I shall not hesitate to amend this post accordingly.
But for now ...
Trowbridge, we have a problem.
JFK Assassination: The Quintessential 'False Flag' Operation - Charles Drago - 15-02-2011
Trowbridge H. Ford Wrote:I know that this thread is not just about me and Charles.
What evidence do you have in mind? Would you like to know more about Peter Wright's, Anatoliy Golitsyn's and Richard Helms' role in the conspiracy?
Or how about Robert Baskin's pieces in The Dallas Morning News on October 20, 1963, stating that the Cuban Missile Crisis was starting to resume just 13 months after it was suspended, and that someone was sending threatening postcards from Irving, Dallas and Fort Worth, Texas to Richard Nixon and Dallas Representative Bruce Alger?
Or how about Captain Joe Glenn Hyde, Jr. - allegedly shot down just a month later over Cuba and was never found, actually having been given a new identity, Horace White, and remarrying his alleged widow?
Or how about the story in the DMN on the day of the assassination, announcing that visitor Nixon needed no protection, entitled "Guard not for Nixon", a story pushed on the upper right-hand corner of the front page?
Just tell me what else you want to know.
At this point, I want to know how you define "evidence."
Based upon my check of your references to The Search for the Manchurian Candidate, I must also ask for your definition of "research."
No one of sound mind can have the slightest confidence in your conclusions if you fail to produce the empirical data on which they are based.
A film producer, on the other hand, can run with your stuff. It's Hollywood, after all. And you know what they say about tales for the big screen: Their width is more important than their depth.
Charles
JFK Assassination: The Quintessential 'False Flag' Operation - Trowbridge H. Ford - 15-02-2011
The only problem I have is with you, Charles.
I used the W. W. Norton 1991 paperback editon of John Marks' book, and the rapid induction hypnosis experiment is discussed on pp. 202-3, and I never said that the note was numbered on p. 244, only said that it was at the bottom of the page.
The only addition I made to what was provided is the claim that the subject was apparently LHO, "...a low-level agent whom the Soviets had apparently doubled." (p. 203)
Now how many such agents did CIA have available in a Mexico City motel in July 1963 with such a contested status, and James Angleton's Counterintelligence Staff in Washington wanted so hypnotized?
The only possible agent I can think of with this questionable doubled status is Oswald, especially since you mention him in connection with Yuri Nosenko who "...said that the KGB had no interest in Oswald." (p. 154)
You have a most limited view of research - never go with what the suspects somehow disclose!
And, as expected, regarding other findings, you attack my methods rather than the offers and the messages.
Don't expect anything more from me, as I consider you a total waste of time.
JFK Assassination: The Quintessential 'False Flag' Operation - Charles Drago - 15-02-2011
Trowbridge H. Ford Wrote:The only problem I have is with you, Charles.
I am flattered but hardly surprised.
Trowbridge H. Ford Wrote:I used the W. W. Norton 1991 paperback editon of John Marks' book, and the rapid induction hypnosis experiment is discussed on pp. 202-3, and I never said that the note was numbered on p. 244, only said that it was at the bottom of the page.
You wrote: "For more about the project, MKULTRA Subproject 128-1, see the last note to Chapter 11 on p. 244."
You cannot even accurately quote yourself.
I inferred: "Last" indicates a final entry in an enumerated sequence.
Trowbridge H. Ford Wrote:The only addition I made to what was provided is the claim that the subject was apparently LHO, "...a low-level agent whom the Soviets had apparently doubled." (p. 203)
"The only addition ... " Good grief!
This is precisely why no one of sound mind can take your work seriously. Your "only addition" amounts to a gargantuan leap of faith and, I might add, one that is rather disingenuously presented.
You fold your supposition/"addition" into a citation in such a fashion as to blur the distinction.
Again, you are self-exposed. No researcher worth the name takes you seriously ... and for good reason.
Trowbridge H. Ford Wrote:Now how many such agents did CIA have available in a Mexico City motel in July 1963 with such a contested status, and James Angleton's Counterintelligence Staff in Washington wanted so hypnotized?
You tell us. The onus of proof is on you.
Trowbridge H. Ford Wrote:The only possible agent I can think of with this questionable doubled status is Oswald, especially since you mention him in connection with Yuri Nosenko who "...said that the KGB had no interest in Oswald." (p. 154)
So you conflate your own limitations with what ... definitive research? ... truth?
Trowbridge H. Ford Wrote:You have a most limited view of research - never go with what the suspects somehow disclose!
The fault lies not in the stars, dear Trowbridge ...
NOTHING was disclosed except your own sloppy (again, to be generous) "research" methods.
Trowbridge H. Ford Wrote:And, as expected, regarding other findings, you attack my methods rather than the offers and the messages.
You have made it clear that your methods are, to be charitable, suspect.
How else can one establish the value of any research other than by evaluating the research methodology that informs it?
Your "offers" and "messages" must be valued in direct proportion to your research.
Based upon what I've discovered and documented (look it up) to date, your "offers" and "messages" are fatally flawed and absolutely worthless.
Trowbridge H. Ford Wrote:Don't expect anything more from me, as I consider you a total waste of time.
Know that you, on the other hand, can expect a lot more from me when I receive the W. W. Norton 1991 paperback edition of The Search for the Manchurian Candidate -- the very same edition you admit to using.
And by the way, again your characterization flatters me.
Yours,
Charles
JFK Assassination: The Quintessential 'False Flag' Operation - David Guyatt - 15-02-2011
Charlie, best to learn from my miserable mistakes in this. Mr. Crowbridge just will not comply with requests for evidence if you display any doubts about the veracity of his post.
It's as simple as that.
After considerable reflection and soul searching, I believe I made a massive mistake - an understandable one, I have to say, but one all the same - in regard to Mr. Towbridge's article in another folder. I had doubts about the posters statements and asked for evidence. My style was not suited to Mr. Rowbridge's personality and he, quite rightly, decided not to comply with my requests for evidence.
The fact is that if you take Mr. Crowbridge's statements at face value, as obviously we should, then we wouldn't even consider asking for them to be evidenced. On the other hand, if we entertain doubts, and ask for evidence - without asking in a manner fitting Mr. Cockbridge's obvious perspicacity, you'll not get it.
It as simple as that.
But I have observed the gentleman's generosity, when correctly asked for specific information, he will provide, with charming alacrity, another of his lengthy articles in fulfillment of that request. I have noticed also, that he thoughtfully provides links to some of his other articles as supporting footnotes to substantiate assertions made in the body of yet other articles.
Which is highly thoughtful of him. And which is, you have to admit, a brilliantly simple way of providing potential critics with a disarming response to their requests for evidence.
It's as simple as that.
In conclusion, I suggest we jointly pose a question for the Mr. Foolbridge. Is he, by any chance, a practicing Roman Catholic?
I realize it is impolite to ask, but as you know, I am a person of high moral character who has a very considerable degree of effluence in high Catholic circles, and I am aware that they are always on the lookout for exceptional persons to join the ranks of the beatified saints. I could always put in a good word for him if he wishes?
St. Trow the Grieved.
A stigmata might be appropriate too. A perpetually bleeding heart perhaps?
And a suitable emblem. What about a dry quill pen emblazoned on a dead Codfish bearing three keys - none of which open anything.
JFK Assassination: The Quintessential 'False Flag' Operation - Charles Drago - 15-02-2011
Brilliant, David. Damn brilliant.
Just what are we dealing with here?
A Bridge too far gone?
Would that all Trowls were so self-illuminating.
JFK Assassination: The Quintessential 'False Flag' Operation - David Guyatt - 15-02-2011
Btw Charlie, the edition of Manchurian Candidate you have ordered is freely avaiable for online download HERE.
I appreciate it is not a book as such and won't add to your envious library, but in the short term it can be examined for blood...
JFK Assassination: The Quintessential 'False Flag' Operation - Charles Drago - 15-02-2011
David Guyatt Wrote:Btw Charlie, the edition of Manchurian Candidate you have ordered is freely avaiable for online download HERE.
I appreciate it is not a book as such and won't add to your envious library, but in the short term it can be examined for blood...
Alas, David, the link takes me to the British edition of the American edition which I already own.
So we must control our sanguine hungers for just a bit longer ...