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+--- Thread: Lucien Sarti and Jacques Mesrine (/thread-8688.html)
Lucien Sarti and Jacques Mesrine - Vasilios Vazakas - 24-01-2012
We all know about the CIA ducument saying that Jean Souetre was in Fort Worth on the morning of Nov.22 1963 and in Dallas the afternoon of the same day.
There is a dispute a to wether the man in question was Jean Souetre or Michel Victor Mertz.
1. Jean Souetre
Member of the French OAS, assassination attempts against DeGaulle. The OAS hated JFK for supporting the Algeria independence.
Souetre was in conduct with Banister and E.H.Hunt, perhaps for operations against Fidel Castro, not necessarily to murder JFK, but it could be possible tha he was.
Eugene Dinkin a US army code breaker (the man who knew too much) discovered a messsage that JFK was to be assassinated in November.
Dinkin was staged in Metz France and one of his duties was to decipher cable trafficking originating with the OAS.
Souetre gave an interview later and claimed that he was in Spain and not in Dallas and that he could prove it.
He said that a man named Michel Victor Mertz, a narcotics smuggler and SDECE agent was impersonating him in order
to leave a trail that could lead not back to Mertz but to his enemy Souetre. Of course it could have been the other way round and it was Souetre
who was impersonating Mertz.
2. Michel Victor Mertz was an agent of SDECE. James Jesus Angleton was in contact with SDECE and especially a man
named Phillipe de Vosjoli that many believe that he was spying against his country for Angeton. Now most of us accept that Angleton
was one of the main facilitators of the plot specially in framing Oswald. If he was also the facilitator that organized the shooters he
might have asked Vosjoli's help to recruit shooters from the French underworld connected to either the OAS or the SDECE.
3. A third alternative is that neither Mertz or Souetre were involved in the assassination and this dual confussion of two men using its other's
name was deliberately designed to confuse researchers and again create a cognitive dissonance were everything is possible but nothing is certain.
Similar to two Z films, two autopsies two everything.
It is more likely that the shooters came from the ranks of CIA special ops soldiers staged in Laos or Vietnam with no loose ends and connections that can be
traced back to their origins, like French terrorists, heroin smugglers or French agents could be traced.
Lucien Sarti and Jacques Mesrine - Charles Drago - 24-01-2012
Well reasoned.
Hypothesis: Disinformation was leaked to Dinkins in order to set up A) the Corsican ruse and B) the faux Chicago "plot" gambit.
Lucien Sarti and Jacques Mesrine - Vasilios Vazakas - 24-01-2012
Charles Drago Wrote:Well reasoned..
Hypothesis: Disinformation was leaked to Dinkins in order to set up A) the Corsican ruse and B) the faux Chicago "plot" gambit.
Interesting that you have connected the Chicago attempt to the Dinkin affair. Another man whose actions were parallel to Dinkin's was Richard Case Nagell. I think he served a similar purpose.
Angleton being a master of drama set up it is likely that he created the Corsican/SDECE/OAS false lead. He also knew that William Harvey and his ZR/RIFLE would have been implicated by involving Corscans. And the implication of Kostikov was another echo of a ZR/RIFLE operation.
Some say that Angleton was at odds with Harvey, others that they were close. My opinion is that it was neither, he was using Harvey to suit his schemes.
I also wonder if Rose Cheramie was fed disinformation similar to Dinkin's. She was hospitalized in Jackson's hospital where LSD experiments were probably conducted. What if she was forced to believe that Ruby and Italian Mafia were planning to kill JFK with the use of psychedelic drugs? and send everyone in to a wild goose chase?
Lucien Sarti and Jacques Mesrine - Albert Doyle - 24-01-2012
Charles Drago Wrote:Well reasoned.
Hypothesis: Disinformation was leaked to Dinkins in order to set up A) the Corsican ruse and B) the faux Chicago "plot" gambit.
The Corsican 'ruse' could have been used as a red-herring, however I don't think it should be automatically dismissed so quickly. Piper illustrates how the sympathies of the French underground and OAS were divided. Just like the CIA and the Cubans the OAS had torn sympathies over Algeria and persons who were willing to take a shot at De Gaulle for his 'treason'. Piper says Israel did not want any nearby arab country empowered by independence because of the chain effect eventually reaching Israel and the Palestinians, so Israel naturally sided with the OAS (but in a complex way that exploited sympathies even within them). So while it is possible the Corsican connection was one of many ruses in the Plaza that day it was connected to legitimate and powerful interests that were collectively used to either facilitate or partially "sponsor" either the assassination or cover-up. This is a very tricky room full of mirrors, so one should be careful of dismissing too quickly. While the Corsicans could have been a 'ruse' there was a very powerful and influential participant laying beyond them in Ben Gurion and Mossad that gets neglected by dismissing the French Connection too quickly and not looking further. If JFK was going after CIA that meant he would possibly go after the French Connection heroin routes that were an important nexus between CIA, Israel, and the Corsicans (mob). Piper shows Israel had a direct interest in the heroin profits that were channeled back through Tibor Rosenbaum's Banque Du Credit Internacional. This was the direct purview of Permindex which then puts Clay Shaw directly right into the center of the actual assassination conspiracy. It's hard to totally dismiss the Corsicans at that point since they can't be separated from this directly-connected cabal. Angleton was the CIA liaison to Israel. Angleton also helped form Mossad during his OSS service.
Lucien Sarti and Jacques Mesrine - Albert Doyle - 24-01-2012
Vasilios Vazakas Wrote:Angleton being a master of drama set up it is likely that he created the Corsican/SDECE/OAS false lead.
Not a "false lead". Read Piper.
Vasilios Vazakas Wrote:I also wonder if Rose Cheramie was fed disinformation similar to Dinkin's. She was hospitalized in Jackson's hospital where LSD experiments were probably conducted. What if she was forced to believe that Ruby and Italian Mafia were planning to kill JFK with the use of psychedelic drugs? and send everyone in to a wild goose chase?
Cheramie knew where and when JFK would be shot. That ain't "disinformation".
The Jackson MKULTRA claim with Cheramie is a stretch since she was hospitalized only to sober her up from her heroin addiction.
Lucien Sarti and Jacques Mesrine - Vasilios Vazakas - 24-01-2012
Albert
i am only exploring all the alternatives. She knew the place but she also fed the Ruby thing which is suspect by itself.
Remember Yates picked up an Oswald look alike who asked him if he had been to the Carousel club.
Piper's blame on Israel is far fetched. Even if Mossad was involved and we do not have the evidence to claim this
they would have been cut outs for the CIA and not prime movers. and Angleton was the big drama director, but not for Ben Gurion.
Lucien Sarti and Jacques Mesrine - Albert Doyle - 24-01-2012
Vasilios Vazakas Wrote:Albert
Piper's blame on Israel is far fetched. Even if Mossad was involved and we do not have the evidence to claim this
they would have been cut outs for the CIA and not prime movers. and Angleton was the big drama director, but not for Ben Gurion.
I believe I could show you where you're wrong on this, but alas it would take an effort I don't have time for right now. Not far-fetched at all and Piper has already shown the reasons why in his book. I believe people are behind the curve on this for reasons I explained above. I also agree Piper perhaps goes too far trying to place the sponsoring initiative on Ben Gurion and Israel, however the Mediterranean French Connection cabal he outlines in doing this is key to understanding the covert infrastructure behind the assassination both mechanically and politically.
Echevarria: "The Jews are behind us now."
Lucien Sarti and Jacques Mesrine - Vasilios Vazakas - 24-01-2012
we have discussed the Israel thing in previous threads, please don't repeat them again.
Lucien Sarti and Jacques Mesrine - Albert Doyle - 25-01-2012
Vasilios Vazakas Wrote:we have discussed the Israel thing in previous threads, please don't repeat them again.
No, we haven't even come close. I'm simply too busy on another serious investigation to go to 'Final Judgment' to prove it. This is very poor scholarship. The mistake you're making here, and the core of this issue, is the "Israel thing" and this cabal are inextricably connected and are one in the same.
It's funny how Echevarria's quote can bring calls for shut-down of the topic. Hmm...
Lucien Sarti and Jacques Mesrine - Vasilios Vazakas - 25-01-2012
Poor Scholarship? Who said anything about scholarship? I never claimed to be a scholar. I don't even come
close to that. I am only a student in this forum and i am always trying to learn. But i do like to explore
all posibilities no matter how wild they sound. And in this particular case nothing is certain and noone holds the
holy grail of truth. In engineering design there is something called brain storming where a lot of designers meet and come up
with crazy ideas until they get a great one. That's all i did with Cheramie, Nagell and Souetre/Mertz.