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+--- Thread: Some Misunderstandings Related to WTC Collapse Analysis (/thread-11027.html)
Some Misunderstandings Related to WTC Collapse Analysis - Albert Doyle - 10-08-2013
Tony wrote that the core suffered no damage in the North Tower. I think he edited it since then. If you look at the videos, Flight 11 created fiery outshoot out the opposite side of the impact zone. Since it struck close to the center of the tower you can assume the mass that shot out through the opposite side traveled through a substantial portion of the inner core and caused serious damage to a good percentage of the supporting columns whose load was redistributed to the outer frame. It was Tony himself who said the core was designed to support 4 times overload. The percentage of remaining columns were doing exactly that up until they became too weak and suffered failure creep.
Some Misunderstandings Related to WTC Collapse Analysis - Jeffrey Orling - 10-08-2013
Magda,
Yes they knew it but communism was still the enemy of the capitalists and it could arrive not with a violent revolution but via the ballot box. Obviously there was no consensus about entering a full out war with the USSR especially in the nuclear age of MADD. And so one strategy among many was to engage in proxy wars. These would drain the USSR of resources (the US too) but the belief was outspending them was all good... the MIC made out very well with this particular strategy.
The left was doing reasonably well in Italy and gaining, not losing support. The right and the anti communists had to counter this and there were limited options... winning and stealing elections or scaring the people away from the left and to the right. Gladio was this strategy.
In actual functioning democracies the right will usually be losing power and influence as it is a contradiction to the so called... will of the people. The right therefore is anti democratic as well as anti communist or even anti socialist.
In the US and perhaps other countries using religion was another strategy to get the people inline with authoritarianism. Enter the rise of the religious right which is also closely aligned with much of the brass in the DOD... which uses divine right as a sort of justification for their sadism as in kill a geek for god.
All efforts are directed at dismantling democratic institutions or corrupting them leaving them in place ineffective except to blunt the interests of the people and server the elite. The so called justice system has seen such a change in the US which use this system to lock away millions of blacks with the rest living in fear that this will be their fate as well. We've seen how few to none of the elite stand before the bar of justice and suffer any penalty for their criminality.
We live in a Hypocrisy not a democracy.
Hypocrisy is the state of pretending to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that one does not actually have.[SUP][1][/SUP] Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie.[SUP][1][/SUP]
This is not very difficult to see if one bothers to try... despite all the chafe and BS in the media. But of course deception is Criminality's middle name.
Some Misunderstandings Related to WTC Collapse Analysis - Jeffrey Orling - 10-08-2013
Albert Doyle Wrote:Tony wrote that the core suffered no damage in the North Tower. I think he edited it since then. If you look at the videos, Flight 11 created fiery outshoot out the opposite side of the impact zone. Since it struck close to the center of the tower you can assume the mass that shot out through the opposite side traveled through a substantial portion of the inner core and caused serious damage to a good percentage of the supporting columns whose load was redistributed to the outer frame. It was Tony himself who said the core was designed to support 4 times overload. The percentage of remaining columns were doing exactly that up until they became too weak and suffered failure creep.
I believe Tony is wrong about the reserve capacity of the steel in the towers. The average reserve capacity in a steel building is less than 45% and it so because steel is very expensive. Because of the reliability of these structures engineers are advocating to REDUCE the reserve capacity.
The fact is that there were no reports about what was going on inside the cores and there were no transducers or thermocouples to record data. Tony's is making a series of assumptions and that's fine. He's also ignore some of the movement data... and that's not fine.
Attached is a concept of how the core damage MIGHT have propagated through the core of WTC1. The attached conception is no different than Tony's.
Have a blast!
Some Misunderstandings Related to WTC Collapse Analysis - Tony Szamboti - 10-08-2013
Jeffrey Orling Wrote:Jan Klimkowski Wrote:At its most fundamental level, Gladio is not about right-wing or left-wing politics.
Gladio, and its successor operations, are about Power and Control.
And I will assert that "power and control" are the currency of the right.
Or what one could say most people would call "the right", so your statement is accurate in that respect.
Some Misunderstandings Related to WTC Collapse Analysis - Charles Drago - 10-08-2013
Tony Szamboti Wrote:Jeffrey Orling Wrote:Jan Klimkowski Wrote:At its most fundamental level, Gladio is not about right-wing or left-wing politics.
Gladio, and its successor operations, are about Power and Control.
And I will assert that "power and control" are the currency of the right.
Or what one could say most people would call "the right", so your statement is accurate in that respect.
The very foundation of this argument -- that there are significant distinctions between the ideologies we define as politically "Right" and "Left" -- is the fatal flaw in it.
"Right or Left" -- a false choice of sinister design and application.
Some Misunderstandings Related to WTC Collapse Analysis - Albert Doyle - 10-08-2013
Jeffrey's diagram may underplay the damage to the core columns.
Some Misunderstandings Related to WTC Collapse Analysis - Jeffrey Orling - 10-08-2013
Albert Doyle Wrote:Jeffrey's diagram may underplay the damage to the core columns.
Perhaps... This was intended to show how loads redistribute and cause other columns to then fail... obviously they all failed... but we don't know how many were destroyed by the strike or partially damaged.
Some Misunderstandings Related to WTC Collapse Analysis - Lauren Johnson - 10-08-2013
Assume that for some unknown reason, every one of the core columns of WTC 1 or 2 vanished in x number of floors. (Of course, we assume that they are still standing.) This eliminates the speculation about how many core columns remain and how strong they are.
If the core columns of one floor are removed what happens? Two? Three?
I assume, Jeffrey, you would say the whole building comes down with the removal of the core columns of even one floor. Correct. Tony, I am guessing you will say that the whole building does not collapse with the removal of only one floor's worth of core columns.
Some Misunderstandings Related to WTC Collapse Analysis - Jeffrey Orling - 10-08-2013
Lauren Johnson Wrote:Assume that for some unknown reason, every one of the core columns of WTC 1 or 2 vanished in x number of floors. (Of course, we assume that they are still standing.) This eliminates the speculation about how many core columns remain and how strong they are.
If the core columns of one floor are removed what happens? Two? Three?
I assume, Jeffrey, you would say the whole building comes down with the removal of the core columns of even one floor. Correct. Tony, I am guessing you will say that the whole building does not collapse with the removal of only one floor's worth of core columns.
First, the columns were 3 stories tall. The were spliced one to the other at about 4 feet above the floor slab. So it's hard to imagine how a single floor of core columns could be removed. See attached diagram of the facade damage of north face of WTC 1 with the row 500 core columns shown in red and blue... Notice how they BEGIN above the floor level and end 3 stories up again 4' above the slab.
If by magic you removed JUST the 24 core columns the floors outside the core would collapse and the ROOSD would begin and the tower would come down. You could do this with magic removal of as few as 12 core columns.... the 4 corner ones and the two center ones on each side... My guess. I think perhaps as few as 8 as shown in the attached slide could cascade into a top drop and then ROOSD and global failure. Note in the top diagram the relative area of floor outside-the-core load percentages carried by each column.
The 23 columns in the center of the core were not required to support the floors outside the core... they supported inside the core floor (little area) and defined all the elevator shafts. Their size is markedly smaller.
Note in the FLOOR 1 COLUMN STUDY the relative areas of each column... the area is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to the load that the column supports. These ratios are similar all through the height of the tower, though the columns all decrease in cross sectional area.
Some Misunderstandings Related to WTC Collapse Analysis - Albert Doyle - 11-08-2013
The hypothesis should be correlated with the actual conditions of the collapse. If a full floor of core columns were magically removed the inner floor pad would drop pulling the fastened connections with the outer frame inward ripping the outer frame supports inward and out of line with those below them. The correct formula here, that is more in line with the actual event, is the entire section above would then become a downward pile driver initiating the floor pad collapse. This is probably very close to what actually happened. This would be aided by a damaged core and frame steel weakened by fires.
What Tony said were demolition plumes were actually air pressure plumes from the collapsing floors. A sharp eye could see they couldn't be from explosives in the core because the source was too close to the wall they were blasting out of. There were no detonation flashes from those plumes, their source was definitely pneumatic.