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+--- Thread: Familiar Faces in Dealey Plaza (/thread-2176.html)
Familiar Faces in Dealey Plaza - Charles Drago - 02-02-2011
If the A/C image -- among others -- has been added and/or manipulated in order to provoke confusion and dissention among the ranks of honorable observers who are natural allies ...
Mission accomplished.
Familiar Faces in Dealey Plaza - Morgan Reynolds - 02-02-2011
Jack, at least we have achieved absolute clarity on our respective conclusions, explanations included.
It's all of 20 degrees F. here in my AR backyard. Just happened to talk to a friend in Ft. Collins, CO, where he reports it as -5 dF with a predicted high of -2 dF.
Did you notice that Al Gore says that the cold weather proves man-made global warming? Hot, cold, in between, it's man-made global warming. Apparently he did not comment on the alleged cause of the alleged global warming on Mars.
Familiar Faces in Dealey Plaza - Jack White - 02-02-2011
Morgan Reynolds Wrote:Jack, at least we have achieved absolute clarity on our respective conclusions, explanations included.
It's all of 20 degrees F. here in my AR backyard. Just happened to talk to a friend in Ft. Collins, CO, where he reports it as -5 dF with a predicted high of -2 dF.
Did you notice that Al Gore says that the cold weather proves man-made global warming? Hot, cold, in between, it's man-made global warming. Apparently he did not comment on the alleged cause of the alleged global warming on Mars.
Thanks, Morgan. Global warming is just another phony issue that TPTB
want to sell us fools to serve some hidden agenda.
By the way, I never did hear a response from you on this graphic.
Jack
Familiar Faces in Dealey Plaza - Jack White - 02-02-2011
Everyone associated with this thread seems to want
to ignore this comparison. Why?
It seems very plain to me that Adams has wide-set
eyebrows and the Altgens man does not. Why am I
the only one who can see the difference?
I am not accusing anyone of an agenda. I am not
accusing some little widow of lying. I do not care
who the man is if it is not a suspect in the case.
However, I am disturbed that I present evidence and
state my qualified opinion regarding two photos, and
everyone ignores the evidence.
Maybe BIGGER will help.
Jack
Familiar Faces in Dealey Plaza - Charles Drago - 02-02-2011
Jack White Wrote:Everyone associated with this thread seems to want
to ignore this comparison. Why?
It seems very plain to me that Adams has wide-set
eyebrows and the Altgens man does not. Why am I
the only one who can see the difference?
I am not accusing anyone of an agenda. I am not
accusing some little widow of lying. I do not care
who the man is if it is not a suspect in the case.
However, I am disturbed that I present evidence and
state my qualified opinion regarding two photos, and
everyone ignores the evidence.
Maybe BIGGER will help.
Jack
Jack,
David Ferrie could land a Cessna between Adams's eyes.
For whatever it's worth, I take your point.
Charles
Familiar Faces in Dealey Plaza - Allan Eaglesham - 02-02-2011
Jack White Wrote:Everyone associated with this thread seems to want
to ignore this comparison. Why?
It seems very plain to me that Adams has wide-set
eyebrows and the Altgens man does not. Why am I
the only one who can see the difference?
I am not accusing anyone of an agenda. I am not
accusing some little widow of lying. I do not care
who the man is if it is not a suspect in the case.
However, I am disturbed that I present evidence and
state my qualified opinion regarding two photos, and
everyone ignores the evidence.
Maybe BIGGER will help.
Jack
Adams on Houston/Main was squinting because the sun was in his eyes. Eyebrow distance is variable; it is not a definitive parameter.
Familiar Faces in Dealey Plaza - Allan Eaglesham - 02-02-2011
Jack White Wrote:Allan Eaglesham Wrote:Jack White Wrote:Allan Eaglesham Wrote:After twenty-one pages and >6,000 viewings, the issue at hand is now a "trifle." It would be important if the evidence corroborated the theory that Conein was on the corner of Houston and Main, but it's "irrelevant" that the evidence shows beyond a reasonable doubt that it wasn't Conein. Yeah, right.
When I wrote to Fletcher Prouty, drawing his attention to the Conein look-alike, he responded: "...I noted this same photo you have found and the likeness between that person and Lou...I'd say that the guy is Conein." Well, now we know that "the guy" was not Conein. I suspect that Col. Prouty would be glad to have this issue tied down. I don't believe he would view it as trifling or irrelevant.
IF the man on the corner can be proved to be Adams, it is indeed irrelevant
to the JFK assassination. BUT IF it is Adams, that does not mean that Conein was
NOT in DP. It does mean that a LOOKALIKE for Conein was also there. The photo
also shows "lookalikes" for Gerry Patrick Hemming and Rip Robertson standing
by Adams. Who were these lookalikes? What are the odds of one picture showing
3 lookalikes for 3 CIA operatives associated with the assassination? Even if all
three are not the people they look like, THAT IS HARDLY TRIFLING.
As for Prouty, I do not believe that he was accept at face value that the image
is that of Adams. He tended to look beyond "official explanations."
Jack
Tell me, Jack -- who accepted AT FACE VALUE that the image is that of Adams? I certainly did not.
No one has said that Conein was not in Dealey Plaza, although you and Fetzer keep implying it; it's a convenient smoke screen. And "trifle" was your word, not mine.
Morgan...I am not an investigator. I analyze photos. I do not make
trips to interview witnesses. I do not make long distance phone calls.
I am mainly interested in looking at evidence like photos, documents
and books.
Looking at the Eaglesham original identification of the Altgens man
as Conein, I was impressed that there was a great resemblance. Years
later when he changed his mind and said NO, IT WAS A MAN NAMED
ADAMS, I looked at photos he sent me of Adams and was NOT equally
impressed. Most of the Adams photos he sent did NOT look like the
man in Altgens (only one did). But the fact that there was a Dallas
lookalike for the man diminished the chances of the photo showing
Conein, but did not eliminate them. I made my position well known
on JFK forums for several years. The Altgens man is NOT IMPORTANT
if it is NOT Conein, whether it is Adams or anyone else.
My position remains UNCHANGED from the time Adams was introduced
into the scene. PHOTO COMPARISONS are inconclusive. There is a
VERY STRONG REASON that I do not ID Adams in photo comparisons.
The supranasal ridge is totally different. ADAMS PHOTOS show a man
with VERY WIDELY SPACED EYEBROWS, as I have shown and stated
on every occasion. The Altgens man has closely spaced eyebrows.
Therefore, BASED ON PHOTOS (and not witness interviews nor opinions
of others) I cannot change my opinion that comparison of photos
is inconclusive.
In the investigation of the murder of JFK, the misidentification of lack
of identification of spectators along the curb route, IS A TRIFLE lacking
significance, UNLESS an UNIDENTIFIED person can be identified as
someone of suspicion. IF the man on the curb IS Adams, it is totally
irrelevant to the investigation. IF the man is associated with the CIA,
it becomes very relevant. To me, this is self apparent, and I see no
reason to change any conclusion I have drawn from study of photos.
Attached is an additional photo of Adams. Note the great distance
between the eyebrows over the nose, not present in the "Altgens"
photo.
Keep warm. It is 11 degrees here right now.
Jack
You are mistaken. I never sent you photographs of Robert Adams.
Familiar Faces in Dealey Plaza - Jack White - 02-02-2011
Allan Eaglesham Wrote:Jack White Wrote:Allan Eaglesham Wrote:Jack White Wrote:IF the man on the corner can be proved to be Adams, it is indeed irrelevant
to the JFK assassination. BUT IF it is Adams, that does not mean that Conein was
NOT in DP. It does mean that a LOOKALIKE for Conein was also there. The photo
also shows "lookalikes" for Gerry Patrick Hemming and Rip Robertson standing
by Adams. Who were these lookalikes? What are the odds of one picture showing
3 lookalikes for 3 CIA operatives associated with the assassination? Even if all
three are not the people they look like, THAT IS HARDLY TRIFLING.
As for Prouty, I do not believe that he was accept at face value that the image
is that of Adams. He tended to look beyond "official explanations."
Jack
Tell me, Jack -- who accepted AT FACE VALUE that the image is that of Adams? I certainly did not.
No one has said that Conein was not in Dealey Plaza, although you and Fetzer keep implying it; it's a convenient smoke screen. And "trifle" was your word, not mine.
Morgan...I am not an investigator. I analyze photos. I do not make
trips to interview witnesses. I do not make long distance phone calls.
I am mainly interested in looking at evidence like photos, documents
and books.
Looking at the Eaglesham original identification of the Altgens man
as Conein, I was impressed that there was a great resemblance. Years
later when he changed his mind and said NO, IT WAS A MAN NAMED
ADAMS, I looked at photos he sent me of Adams and was NOT equally
impressed. Most of the Adams photos he sent did NOT look like the
man in Altgens (only one did). But the fact that there was a Dallas
lookalike for the man diminished the chances of the photo showing
Conein, but did not eliminate them. I made my position well known
on JFK forums for several years. The Altgens man is NOT IMPORTANT
if it is NOT Conein, whether it is Adams or anyone else.
My position remains UNCHANGED from the time Adams was introduced
into the scene. PHOTO COMPARISONS are inconclusive. There is a
VERY STRONG REASON that I do not ID Adams in photo comparisons.
The supranasal ridge is totally different. ADAMS PHOTOS show a man
with VERY WIDELY SPACED EYEBROWS, as I have shown and stated
on every occasion. The Altgens man has closely spaced eyebrows.
Therefore, BASED ON PHOTOS (and not witness interviews nor opinions
of others) I cannot change my opinion that comparison of photos
is inconclusive.
In the investigation of the murder of JFK, the misidentification of lack
of identification of spectators along the curb route, IS A TRIFLE lacking
significance, UNLESS an UNIDENTIFIED person can be identified as
someone of suspicion. IF the man on the curb IS Adams, it is totally
irrelevant to the investigation. IF the man is associated with the CIA,
it becomes very relevant. To me, this is self apparent, and I see no
reason to change any conclusion I have drawn from study of photos.
Attached is an additional photo of Adams. Note the great distance
between the eyebrows over the nose, not present in the "Altgens"
photo.
Keep warm. It is 11 degrees here right now.
Jack
You are mistaken. I never sent you photographs of Robert Adams.
OK...then someone associated with you did. I did not invent them.
I remember it being you, but if I am wrong, I do not know who else
sent them. It is so long ago that I no longer have the email which
contained them. So who sent them?
Jack
Familiar Faces in Dealey Plaza - Morgan Reynolds - 02-02-2011
Jack, my response is that your graphic of the two pics is inconclusive. Note that I'm not going to play pure photo analyst here because I'm going to import outside information (age) to arrive at my answer.
The two photos differ in photographic conditions so much that I do not share your conclusion about distance between eyebrows. I cannot tell what the distance between eyebrows is in the Dealey Plaza photo taken at 12:30 in bright overhead sun. That photo shows deep shadows and, combined with blurriness of the picture, leaves me uncertain about how far apart the man's eyebrows are. Distance between eyebrows, on the other hand, in the photo taken indoors under very favorable lighting conditions are easily seen and are clearly sizable, a wider-than-normal gap.
What I notice as a difference between the two photos is not distance between eyebrows but the bridges of the nose, namely, in the Plaza pic the bridge looks narrow and includes a shadow due to a sinus brow or furrow in the skin, while the bridge of the nose in the indoor pic looks broader without a noteworthy brow or furrow.
I would reconcile the difference in the two images as caused by two differences: in the indoor pic bright lighting (likely a camera flash) minimized facial shadows and the man was years younger in that photo than the (same) man who was pictured outdoors in the Plaza. My claim is that furrows appear and deepen with age.
Conclusion: the photo comparison is inconclusive because of differences in
photographic conditions and age of subject.
Now consider this generalization: non-photographic evidence is frequently more compelling than photos. This is especially true if direct, unimpeachable evidence says "A," while photos say A, B or C.
Familiar Faces in Dealey Plaza - Jack White - 02-02-2011
Allan Eaglesham Wrote:Jack White Wrote:Everyone associated with this thread seems to want
to ignore this comparison. Why?
It seems very plain to me that Adams has wide-set
eyebrows and the Altgens man does not. Why am I
the only one who can see the difference?
I am not accusing anyone of an agenda. I am not
accusing some little widow of lying. I do not care
who the man is if it is not a suspect in the case.
However, I am disturbed that I present evidence and
state my qualified opinion regarding two photos, and
everyone ignores the evidence.
Maybe BIGGER will help.
Jack
Adams on Houston/Main was squinting because the sun was in his eyes. Eyebrow distance is variable; it is not a definitive parameter.
This is laughable.
Do me a favor. Stand in front of a mirror. Exercise facial muscles.
Make your eyebrows move sideways toward the middle. Careful,
now...don't strain any muscles. I am not responsible for injuries.
Oh, yes...document the experiment. Take measurements of the
amount of lateral movement. Take photos. Remember, vertical
movement does not count, since that is easy. Make your eyebrows
move sideways.
Thanks in advance for doing this experiment.
Jack