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+--- Thread: John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee (/thread-11170.html)
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - John Mooney - 19-09-2013
Did one Oswald have a tooth missing?
Look... whatever, believe what you want.
Greg Parker already took this theory apart a few years ago.
I believe there are simpler ways to prove a conspiracy. The impossibily of the SBT for one and the fact that Dale Myers with his big CGI budget had to demonstrably cheat to make it "work".
Keep it simple.
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - John Mooney - 19-09-2013
Dawn Meredith Wrote:Have you read Harvey and Lee, John?
No I haven't but I've followed the many debates about it on various forums and I think I got the jist.
Greg Parker gave examples of how John Armstrong was wrong in many instances.
Quote:I do not think Harvey and Lee look much alike at all.
But the photos offered as evidence all look like Oswald to me within reason - close enough for the way we all vary in photos.
Quote:Ditto with the two mothers. They are two different women and JA's book proved that to me.
Again, the photos offered as evidence don't show it. There are pictures of old Marguerite that look like young Marguerite. There are ones that don't but she was old and worn, but she still comes through in a number of them.
The interet is full of body double theories which I've looked into over the years (I'm catholic so you'll see my interest).. body doubles of Pope Paul VI, Sister Lucia (of Third secret of Fatima fame)... then we have Paul McCartney, Rudolf Hess.... they are all nonsense when you get down to it.
It's all a bit 1960s pulp spy stories.
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Dawn Meredith - 19-09-2013
PLEASE do not compare the Paul McCartney hoax to the deadly serious work of John Armstrong.
I do not find Greg Parker the least bit of an authority. Do your own research. Then draw conclusions.
Dawn
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - David Josephs - 20-09-2013
John Mooney Wrote:Dawn Meredith Wrote:Have you read Harvey and Lee, John?
No I haven't but I've followed the many debates about it on various forums and I think I got the jist.
Greg Parker gave examples of how John Armstrong was wrong in many instances.
Quote:I do not think Harvey and Lee look much alike at all.
But the photos offered as evidence all look like Oswald to me within reason - close enough for the way we all vary in photos.
Quote:Ditto with the two mothers. They are two different women and JA's book proved that to me.
Again, the photos offered as evidence don't show it. There are pictures of old Marguerite that look like young Marguerite. There are ones that don't but she was old and worn, but she still comes through in a number of them.
The interet is full of body double theories which I've looked into over the years (I'm catholic so you'll see my interest).. body doubles of Pope Paul VI, Sister Lucia (of Third secret of Fatima fame)... then we have Paul McCartney, Rudolf Hess.... they are all nonsense when you get down to it.
It's all a bit 1960s pulp spy stories.
Oh John...
Greg Parker uses unsourced and unsigned FBI reports of what witnesses supposedly said to support his arguments against... search the EF for our "discussions" and decide for yourself whether the SOURCE MATERIALS he used constitute reliable evidence of any kind. or are you simply taking his word for it and not bother to look for yourself?
He also focuses on the same WRONG YEARS as the FBI did in his investigation. but hey, as long as the surface images satisfy you and enable you to offer an educated opinion.
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There are 900+ pages in H&L, there are 2131 FOLDERS of information in 21 boxes and each folder may contain 2 to 300 pages of information.
There are two rolls of microfilm that were not scanned into the Baylor Archive.
You've NOT read the book and more than likely have never visited the Baylor Archive - which by the way is more extensive and has better copies than the Warren Commission Documents from which the WC cherry-picked what make the "evidence" list. Yet you can offer us your conclusions....
Glad to see a serious "researcher" HERE discounting: 1) reading the book in question and 2) VIEWING any of the MOUNTAIN OF INFORMATION compiled,
all in favor of his gut feelings...
and then having the disrespect to compare the finished work and huge volume of backup information to a pulp spy story... without ever seeing it.
I respectfully submit that you cannot possibly get the "jist" of what the evidence shows from a cursory reading of a few thread and debates....
The author spoke to the witnesses, spent YEARS in the archives and compiled a case from the evidence offered in the WCR - he followed what it suggested...
Other than reading a few threads - what have you done or offered to support your opinions... other than other people's opinions?
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Jim Hargrove - 20-09-2013
I never heard of Greg Parker until a few days ago when I stumbled across a lengthy, year or two old debate between him and David Josephs.
Parker declared victory every time he posted, but David ate him up in the debate! EVIDENCE is a funny thing, and joking about it doesn't change it.
Jim
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Jim Hargrove - 20-09-2013
According to Robert Oswald, this is his brother LEE HARVEY in 1958. Look at the hairline:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5282[/ATTACH]
This photo appears in Robert Oswald's book.
Does this look to you like the guy killed by Jack Ruby?
Jim
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - David Josephs - 20-09-2013
Jim Hargrove Wrote:I never heard of Greg Parker until a few days ago when I stumbled across a lengthy, year or two old debate between him and David Josephs.
Parker declared victory every time he posted, but David ate him up in the debate! EVIDENCE is a funny thing, and joking about it doesn't change it.
Jim
Jim...
Greg has contributed a great deal to the research and knowledge base... yet in this instance I believe he came unprepared
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18558&page=8#entry259115
He repeatedly asks whether JA interviewed these people, instead of even looking at the source reports he was using to argue against him.
Here is an example of these reports one will find linked to in that thread:
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=58971&relPageId=26
When you link to the rest of the FBI DOCS he offers we find they are virtual carbon copies of each other and ALL refer to the 1954-55 school year.
Why on earth would the FBI ask them about 53-54, specifically Sept 53-Dec 53, when the records show a LEE OSWALD at PS44 in NY at that point in time (which PS44 is yet another mystery since there are PS44's in Queens, Manhattan AND the Bronx)
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To the issue regarding the Spring and Summer of 1953. On April 16, 1953 he is admitted to the YOUTH HOUSE in its original location on East 12th street (see conflicting date below)
He leaves on May 7th and the FBI reports state he enters NINTH grade when he is actually in 7th. (Reports in the FALL 1953 quote MO as saying he was doing fine and elected class president of the NINTH grade)
He SOMEHOW is back at PS44 where his records show him attending 109 days, missing 15 with a few half days thrown in from MARCH 23, 1953 THRU JUNE 1, 1953. (There is no record of where he is from 1/15/53-3/22/53) - except there are not 124 days between 1/23/53 and 6/1/53... not even close. AND there is no mention of the YOUTH HOUSE stay from 4/16-5/7. This school form was CREATED, not accumulated.
So now we reach the SUMMER of 53... and the curious case of Louise Robertson"
BELOW is the "supposed" statement of Louise Robertson - the HOUSEKEEPER the impoverished Marg Oswald hires to clean their 3 room apartment in the summer of 1953.
A few things to note:
2039 Southern Blvd is AROUND THE CORNER from 825 E 179th where the Oswalds lived.
she "advised" - did she contact them or the other way around and why?
"Jacobi Hospital" is mentioned in her statement yet it did not exist in 1953... (this statement is the basis for questions posed to Mrs. O and John Pic - Mrs. O denies ever telling anyone anything of the sort)
BEFORE they moved she is told by MO about an incident where the NYPD returns her son (the only two instances are listed below)
She states that not soon after either A) the story was told or B) the incident occurred, the Oswald's moved. (they "officially" moved on January 12, 1953 to NOLA... HOW is completely unknown as it appears MO no longer had a car - yet Robertson only worked during the summer of 53... other than the North Dakota evidence - where did they move, never to be seen again while LEE attends PS44 with his address listed as 825 E 179th ???)
Victor J. Connell, an Attendance Officer in the 22nd District (not District 24.
which was the district for PS #44 ), was the only Attendance Officer who recalled having
personal contact with Oswald outside of court.
In the spring of 1953, while working in the area of the Bronx Zoo, Connell observed
a clean, well-dressed young boy approximately 13 years old. He approached the
boy and, after determining that his name was Lee Oswald, apprehended him and returned
him to school.8 Connell described Oswald as "surly" and remembered that he
referred to Connell as a "damned Yankee." Unfortunately, it is not known to which school
Connell returned Oswald.
On April 16 (1953), the day after Oswald was taken from his mother and remanded to
the Youth House, Policewoman Felicia Shpritzer of the Youth Division of the 48th
detective squad (Bathgate Avenue, Bronx) picked up a young boy and charged him with
truancy. After identifying the young man as Lee Harvey Oswald she served him with
the outstanding warrant for truancy. The records of this April 16, 1953 arrest were located
by news reporters in the Old Record Room of the New York City Police Department.
In Sept 1954, LEE OSWALD enters PS44...
In Sept 1954, HARVEY OSWALD enters Beauregard JHS as a part-time student taking only 2 classes and attending 89 of 90 days as interpreted by Mr. Head:
Mr. Head (Asst Principal Weaton High Schoolin NOLA) stated that therefore the numbers listed opposite this abbreviation(Re-Ad) indicated the number of school days that Oswald attended for a givenyear.
He also states that Oswald began attending on JANUARY 13, 1954. Problem here being there is another line of grades and attendance for the SPRING of the 53-54 school year... from January thru June
The records indicate a total of 184 total days of school available in the 53-54 school year of wich Oswald only missed 5 days
and Finally the individual grade cards do not match the cumulative record...
I absolutely MUST SAY that anyone who can come to a conclusion about this information without living with it, graphing it, charting it, and comparing the evidence side by side is doing themselves and this forum a great disservice.
LEE has graduated from 7th to 8th grade with failing grades in 6 of 9 classes... nice trick... but does indeed enter 8th grade after a summer in NYC
There are no photos of LEE OSWALD from that summer, the next photo we have is Ed Voebel's missing front tooth photo at Beauregard JHS... Myra DeRouse was shown that photo and DID NOT RECOGNIZE that boy as the OSWALD BOY in her homeroom class who she described the same way the Dr. from Youth House described him: small, slight, undernourished.
While at the same time MO's sister, where LEE was living when they first get back to NOLA (Jan 1954) describes a LEE who is LOUD, BOISTEROUS and physically intimidating... who NEVER spoke softly to anyone... the polar opposite of Myra's and the YOUTH HOUSE OSWALD.
Cheers
DJ
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John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Jim Hargrove - 20-09-2013
Hi, David,
It's WAY after dark here in SE Wisconsin...
I'll be back tomorrow!!!!
JIm
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - John Mooney - 20-09-2013
Jim Hargrove Wrote:I never heard of Greg Parker until a few days ago when I stumbled across a lengthy, year or two old debate between him and David Josephs.
Parker declared victory every time he posted, but David ate him up in the debate! EVIDENCE is a funny thing, and joking about it doesn't change it.
Jim
Hello Jim,
I think you are mistaken about who ate who up.
Was Greg right about Palmer McBride? Was he right about the school registration form? (Which DJ admitted he was in the end).
He had a whole list of things like the 7 witnesses who were ignored who saw Oswald in 52/53 in favor of one witness who fitted the Armstrong theory.
The debate was excellent except for the argument between Greg and David Lifton about who found the McBride information first (Lifton "I already knew that but didn't tell anyone"). I read through it again last night.
Greg sadly seems to have disappeared from JFK Education forum.
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - John Mooney - 20-09-2013
Jim Hargrove Wrote:According to Robert Oswald, this is his brother LEE HARVEY in 1958. Look at the hairline:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5282[/ATTACH]
This photo appears in Robert Oswald's book.
Does this look to you like the guy killed by Jack Ruby?
Jim
Are there other pictures of Oswald in Robert's book?
I would also ask who pencilled in the ridiculous "Joker" mouth?
The hair looks tampered with as well.
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Did Robert ever say the guy shot by Ruby wasn't his brother?
Did Robert even write his own book?