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+--- Thread: John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee (/thread-11170.html)
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Jim Hargrove - 23-09-2013
I first got introduced to the online con artists defending the WC and the USG in general ten to 15 years ago when I was active on the Usenet group alt.conspiracy.jfk. After watching Stone's JFK and reading a half dozen or so books on the assassination, I didn't have a whole lot to say, but nevertheless found it odd that no matter what small observations I made, there were always several posters who would come along without fail to defend the USG position in the most strident and inflexible way.
Then I became interested in John Armstrong's work and some of his early speeches and articles, and before long I felt I had a whole lot to say, and it didn't take long for the online rebuttals to change dramatically. What had once been arguments about facts related to the Kennedy assassination suddenly became very personal diatribes against me. One fellow posted, again and again, personal attacks on me that must have been the equivalent of 20 or 30 typed pages. Rather than fight a battle that had nothing to do with the Kennedy assassination, I quit reading alt.conspiracy.jfk and allowed the bastards to win.
I'd like to thank the DPF founders for creating a place that encourages honest research and productive debate and discourages the con artists. No doubt the new JFK Wikl will continue this tradition and soon make its mark.
Jim
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Kenneth Kapel - 23-09-2013
Just about twenty minutes ago my copy of "Harvey & Lee" arrived about ten minutes ago. I'm thumbing throught it now, it is fascinating. My usual routine with newly purchased books is first to thumb through them and then read beginning to end.
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Magda Hassan - 24-09-2013
Jim Hargrove Wrote:I first got introduced to the online con artists defending the WC and the USG in general ten to 15 years ago when I was active on the Usenet group alt.conspiracy.jfk. After watching Stone's JFK and reading a half dozen or so books on the assassination, I didn't have a whole lot to say, but nevertheless found it odd that no matter what small observations I made, there were always several posters who would come along without fail to defend the USG position in the most strident and inflexible way.Thank Jim. Looking forward to getting it all up and running too!
Then I became interested in John Armstrong's work and some of his early speeches and articles, and before long I felt I had a whole lot to say, and it didn't take long for the online rebuttals to change dramatically. What had once been arguments about facts related to the Kennedy assassination suddenly became very personal diatribes against me. One fellow posted, again and again, personal attacks on me that must have been the equivalent of 20 or 30 typed pages. Rather than fight a battle that had nothing to do with the Kennedy assassination, I quit reading alt.conspiracy.jfk and allowed the bastards to win.
I'd like to thank the DPF founders for creating a place that encourages honest research and productive debate and discourages the con artists. No doubt the new JFK Wikl will continue this tradition and soon make its mark.
Jim
As well as the Mockingbirds and paid government shills on forums etc there also seems to be a type of American who can say no wrong about their government. I've never been able to understand that position. It must mean a whole lot of cognitive dissonance to hold that stance in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. My country right or wrong types. I don't think I have seen this sort of craven abrogation of thinking outside a game of russian roulette. Most Brits and Australians and Italians I know are only too happy to acknowledge and talk about government failings and hypocrisy.
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Magda Hassan - 24-09-2013
Kenneth Kapel Wrote:Just about twenty minutes ago my copy of "Harvey & Lee" arrived about ten minutes ago. I'm thumbing throught it now, it is fascinating. My usual routine with newly purchased books is first to thumb through them and then read beginning to end.
Any chance of a review when you're done reading?
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Jim Hackett II - 24-09-2013
Gee I'm glad in not one of those ugly Americans.
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Magda Hassan - 24-09-2013
Jim Hackett II Wrote:Gee I'm glad in not one of those ugly Americans.I'm glad too :
: I know not everyone is.
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Jim Hargrove - 24-09-2013
Magda Hassan Wrote:Thank Jim. Looking forward to getting it all up and running too!
As well as the Mockingbirds and paid government shills on forums etc there also seems to be a type of American who can say no wrong about their government. I've never been able to understand that position. It must mean a whole lot of cognitive dissonance to hold that stance in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. My country right or wrong types. I don't think I have seen this sort of craven abrogation of thinking outside a game of russian roulette. Most Brits and Australians and Italians I know are only too happy to acknowledge and talk about government failings and hypocrisy.
The "America Firsters and Onlyers," or whatever we should call them (probably not that), always seemed like relatively dim bulbs to me; low-information voters, not terribly well educated, and so on, UNLESS THEY WERE PROFESSIONALS, whether practicing politicians or paid information shills from network news broadcasts to internet chat groups. No proof of that, just my suspicion.
The sad thing is, radical conclusions such as are contained in John Armstrong's work can always use honest, constructive criticism. There are bound to be errors here and there, and correcting them will only make the remaining realities stronger. But when the disinfo campaigns are invoked, perception is obviously more important than reality, and we all suffer if we are denied an understanding of our own history.
Jim
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Tracy Riddle - 24-09-2013
Many American liberals are in love with the idea of "good government," not just as an ideal to work toward and maybe eventually achieve, but as something they think actually exists right now. These are the people who cheered "the system worked!" when Nixon resigned. They will never accept that innocent people are framed by the authorities - though it happened all the time when Henry Wade was D.A. of Dallas County, and Anthony Summers' book on J. Edgar Hoover gives many examples of the FBI doing it during his reign as Director.
The Chris Matthews types are living in such a fantasy world about the nature of power in human societies. He goes on and on about his days in the Peace Corps. Will he ever talk about the Phoenix Program or MK/ULTRA? They don't exist in his world. Technocratic policy wonks like Rachel Maddow and Chris Hayes are in love with all the things that are aiding and abetting the growth of the National Security State, and they don't seem to realize it.
Then you have the people on the Right who believe in "American exceptionalism" and other infantile ideas like extreme religious nationalism, militarism, hating foreigners and glorifying rich people and big business. Between the "Right" and the "Left" it's no wonder the country is so confused on so many levels.
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Kenneth Kapel - 24-09-2013
Magda Hassan Wrote:Kenneth Kapel Wrote:Just about twenty minutes ago my copy of "Harvey & Lee" arrived about ten minutes ago. I'm thumbing throught it now, it is fascinating. My usual routine with newly purchased books is first to thumb through them and then read beginning to end.
Any chance of a review when you're done reading?
Yes, but not for at least anothe week. Thank you for the suggestion.
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Dawn Meredith - 24-09-2013
Magda Hassan Wrote:Kenneth Kapel Wrote:Just about twenty minutes ago my copy of "Harvey & Lee" arrived about ten minutes ago. I'm thumbing throught it now, it is fascinating. My usual routine with newly purchased books is first to thumb through them and then read beginning to end.
Any chance of a review when you're done reading?
This is a book that you really have to take notes on. It is also not easy reading, not in the "complex" sense but more in how dry it is. John basically took all the info and laid it out in a road map kind of fashion.
I too would love to see a really good review of this work. One that covers some of the basics. This work is super detailed.
For those interested I am told he will be speaking at COPA.
Dawn