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+--- Forum: JFK Assassination (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/Forum-JFK-Assassination)
+--- Thread: JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth? (/Thread-JFK-Will-We-Ever-Know-the-Truth)
JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth? - Adele Edisen - 27-05-2013
Albert Doyle Wrote:Tracy Riddle Wrote:IMO, Johnson spent the hours and days after the assassination trying to shut down the plotters' attempt to blame Castro and the KGB and start World War III. They had spent a lot of time setting up a pro-Castro patsy, staging the Mexico City incident, etc. Who knows what kind of frantic phone calls were being made to get the Joint Chiefs and the CIA to stand down from their Operation Northwoods plan?
But he had to give them a consolation prize. So LBJ told the Joint Chiefs at a Christmas party in December, "Just let me get elected, and then you can have your war." (Vietnam: A History p326, Stanley Karnow)
IMO, the alteration of NSAM 273 the day before the assassination shows VietNam was in the plans prior to the assassination.
Who wrote NSAM 273? It is dated Novemebr 21, 1963. John Kennedy didn't write it; he was on an early Air Force I plane headed for San Antonio, Texas. LBJ didn't write it; he wasn't in Washington because he was at his ranch near San Antonio, Texas, getting ready to go the San Antonio Intenational Airport with Ladybird Johnson to greet and welcome the President and his official party to Texas.
Well, it was written by MacGeorge Bundy, Security Adviser to Prsident Kennedy. Appaarently, he had done this all by himself without much input from JFK. He's one of the Bundy boys, William Bundy was his brother, and both had very strong ties to Wall Street. MacGeorge Bundy was the more hawkish one.
After the assassination, Lyndon Johnson had to sign this document. I believe he did it on Tuesday, November 26, 1963. It was a document in opposition to the one Kennedy had written in October, NSAM 263. Yeah, they got their war.
Greg Burnham, you're our NSAM expert. Want to say something here? Hope you're getting better and better. Hugs to you and Julie.
Adele
JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth? - Adele Edisen - 27-05-2013
Tracy, I stole this from your Weisberg File on Curtis Le May and his 1956 attempts to start WWIII with the Soviet Union.
It's a whopper! Thanks to you. Now I'm going through the rest of Weisberg. The old stuff can be so revealing. Who needs sleep?
A 1994 article about Curtis Le May trying to start WWIII:
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisb.../Item%2013.pdf This link does not work, try Magda's, below.
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/T%20Disk/Tiger%20to%20Ride%20Tiger%20File%20Part%202/Item%2013.pdf
The second line dos work.
(Scroll down, way down)
Adele
JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth? - Magda Hassan - 27-05-2013
Adele Edisen Wrote:Tracy, I stole this from your Weisberg File on Curtis Le May and his 1956 attempts to start WWIII with the Soviet Union.For some reason that link doesn't work for me Adele. Try this one: http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/T%20Disk/Tiger%20to%20Ride%20Tiger%20File%20Part%202/Item%2013.pdf
It's a whopper! Thanks to you. Now I'm going through the rest of Weisberg. The old stuff can be so revealing. Who needs sleep?
A 1994 article about Curtis Le May trying to start WWIII:
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisb.../Item 13.pdf
(Scroll down, way down)
Adele
JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth? - Adele Edisen - 27-05-2013
Magda Hassan Wrote:Adele Edisen Wrote:Tracy, I stole this from your Weisberg File on Curtis Le May and his 1956 attempts to start WWIII with the Soviet Union.For some reason that link doesn't work for me Adele. Try this one: http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/T%20Disk/Tiger%20to%20Ride%20Tiger%20File%20Part%202/Item%2013.pdf
It's a whopper! Thanks to you. Now I'm going through the rest of Weisberg. The old stuff can be so revealing. Who needs sleep?
A 1994 article about Curtis Le May trying to start WWIII:
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisb.../Item 13.pdf
(Scroll down, way down)
Adele
Thanks, Magda. I put a second one up which I took off the web page itself. You know, sometimes it has something to do with where on the URL line you place your pointer to click on it. Best to go near the left part of the line, near its begining. Strange, huh?
Now there should be two URL sources.
Adele
JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth? - Tracy Riddle - 27-05-2013
Everything in Weisberg's archives is in PDF format, so you made need to right click and "SAVE AS" to your computer if your browser can't open them.
JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth? - Tracy Riddle - 27-05-2013
Adele Edisen Wrote:[quote=Tracy Riddle][quote=Adele Edisen]Jan,
Did you know that he wanted to tell the American people in 1967 that he would not run for re-election in 1968? That's in Busby's book. He did not do it because Bobby Kennedy had not yet made up his mind to run, and Eugene McCarthy was not considered by him a strong candidate, so he waited until March 31, 1968 (the title of the book by Busby), which was two weeks after Bobby Kennedy said he was running for presidemt. It's important to understand this about LBJ. He was a strong Democratic Party man. Many of his decisions were not self-seeking ones. He wanted the best candidate possible. Yes, he disagreed with Bobby, about the Vietnam War, but he also knew that Bobby could end it. He knew he was the best possible one and so he had waited months before he stepped down, when Bobby was going to run.
Adele
Adele, have you read Lady Bird Johnson's White House Diaries? They reveal that LBJ really had no plans of running for reelection, as far back as 1965 (assuming these diary entries weren't revised years later). On March 7 1965, Lady Bird wrote, "I am counting the months until March 1968, when, like Truman, it will be possible to say, I don't want this office, this responsibility, any longer, even if you want me.'...In talking about the Vietnam situation, Lyndon summed it up quite simply, I can't get out. I can't finish it with what I have got. So what the hell can I do?'" (White House Diary p248)
4/16/1965 Lady Bird wrote, "Lyndon keeps talking more and more about retiring." (p260)
JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth? - Albert Doyle - 27-05-2013
Adele Edisen Wrote:Who wrote NSAM 273? It is dated Novemebr 21, 1963. John Kennedy didn't write it; he was on an early Air Force I plane headed for San Antonio, Texas. LBJ didn't write it; he wasn't in Washington because he was at his ranch near San Antonio, Texas, getting ready to go the San Antonio Intenational Airport with Ladybird Johnson to greet and welcome the President and his official party to Texas.
Well, it was written by MacGeorge Bundy, Security Adviser to Prsident Kennedy. Appaarently, he had done this all by himself without much input from JFK. He's one of the Bundy boys, William Bundy was his brother, and both had very strong ties to Wall Street. MacGeorge Bundy was the more hawkish one.
After the assassination, Lyndon Johnson had to sign this document. I believe he did it on Tuesday, November 26, 1963. It was a document in opposition to the one Kennedy had written in October, NSAM 263. Yeah, they got their war.
Greg Burnham, you're our NSAM expert. Want to say something here? Hope you're getting better and better. Hugs to you and Julie.
Adele
The internal logic being that if NSAM 273 were altered prior to the assassination that therefore there were plans to escalate in VietNam. So if there were pre-meditated plans to make it look like the escalation was the pre-assassination will of the dead president therefore it is reasonable to assume the assassination was not carried-out with the intent of causing WWIII. Do you understand how that works? It isn't logical that the conspirators would be making plans for a VietNam theater showdown with the Communists if they had intended to incite total nuclear war with their Northwoods framing of the Communists. That VietNam showdown would be moot if they were about to launch WWIII. So therefore Johnson wouldn't need to talk them out of anything. NSAM 273 shows VietNam was the goal all along. The WWIII virus was the means of getting the investigators to go along with the cover-up.
This pattern makes it look like the plotters were talked out of the WWIII plan and talked into cooperating with the assassination with the guarantee of VietNam as a concession. Then the assassination went forth with that goal as the plan. A military coup with military justification of the removal of the Commander In Chief.
If we followed out the written will of the Founding Fathers the people would have gone to arms and defended the overthrow of their democracy by this fascist force. We would have gone to armed civil war and retaken the government. The traitors would be ferreted out and summarily executed in a public tribunal just like the Nazis.
JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth? - Phil Dragoo - 27-05-2013
Adele
Donald Gibson cites Dean Acheson (with Rostow) as among the tiny handful who originated the commission.
Acheson's daughter was married to William Bundy who with McGeorge were Dulles' men (or moles).
Acheson's omission of Korea from U.S. defense interests parallels the April Glaspie comment to Saddam Hussein that Kuwait was a regional matter.
Lodge in the Hilton lobby with coins at a payphone when the military had provided free patch to CONUS for the cabinet delegation.
As Greg points out, the curious fourth paragraph to the draft NSAM 271 regarding recrimination, and the necessity of unity is suspicious and absent from the final version.
Felipe Vidal Santiago stops peace train with a closed fist. The riderless horse is stabled. NSAM 273 advises everyone to just chill out (Altamont) people.
Moynihan describes Bundy as icy.
Someone said it's over.
For the profiteers the silver train was rolling:
Our friend from the financial houses of Boston and New York said what he found so obscene was Brown and Root showing up at the Pentagon every week for a check for a billion dollars.
Our friend from army intelligence remarking how dangerous John Kennedy was.
Dangerous in a way not seen since, certainly not now.
JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth? - Gordon Gray - 28-05-2013
Tracy Riddle Wrote:Adele Edisen Wrote:[quote=Tracy Riddle][quote=Adele Edisen]Jan,
Did you know that he wanted to tell the American people in 1967 that he would not run for re-election in 1968? That's in Busby's book. He did not do it because Bobby Kennedy had not yet made up his mind to run, and Eugene McCarthy was not considered by him a strong candidate, so he waited until March 31, 1968 (the title of the book by Busby), which was two weeks after Bobby Kennedy said he was running for presidemt. It's important to understand this about LBJ. He was a strong Democratic Party man. Many of his decisions were not self-seeking ones. He wanted the best candidate possible. Yes, he disagreed with Bobby, about the Vietnam War, but he also knew that Bobby could end it. He knew he was the best possible one and so he had waited months before he stepped down, when Bobby was going to run.
Adele
Adele, have you read Lady Bird Johnson's White House Diaries? They reveal that LBJ really had no plans of running for reelection, as far back as 1965 (assuming these diary entries weren't revised years later). On March 7 1965, Lady Bird wrote, "I am counting the months until March 1968, when, like Truman, it will be possible to say, I don't want this office, this responsibility, any longer, even if you want me.'...In talking about the Vietnam situation, Lyndon summed it up quite simply, I can't get out. I can't finish it with what I have got. So what the hell can I do?'" (White House Diary p248)
4/16/1965 Lady Bird wrote, "Lyndon keeps talking more and more about retiring." (p260)
JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth? - Gordon Gray - 28-05-2013
Albert Doyle Wrote:IMO it was more complicated and less coordinated than that. The sponsors knew that an ambush was being organized on the mechanic level. The various sponsors had their own special interests and agendas. The military hawks wanted an excuse for a first strike at the Soviet Union. The bankers and industrialists, wanted the Vietnam escalation and the profits that would ensue. The Anti Castro Cubans and their CIA handlers wanted an invasion of Cuba, the Mob wanted to be rid of Bobby Kennedy. They all had their facilitators make contingency plans for all the possible scenarios that could result from the attempted assassination. Most importantly plausible deniability. Phillips was still trying to push his Castro did it scenario even after the Warren Commission was formed. The Sponsors weren't all on the same page about the goals, and the failure to kill Oswald, forced them to improvise, and let things play out. I don't think there was a unified central plan. As to LBJ; my understanding is that Connolly and the conservative wing of the Texas Democratic Party didn't want a motorcade at all for fear of an embarrassing incident and also because the rank and file who would turn out would make the liberal Kennedy look too popular. The Kennedy people for that very reason wanted a motorcade. The Connolly people wanted the Trade Mart location and the Secret Service and the Kennedy people wanted the Women's Building. The Women's building would have resulted in a motorcade that went west to east through Dealey Plaza and would have gone straight down Main street at a speed that would have precluded an ambush there. A compromise of a motorcade to the Trade Mart that took the motorcade east to west through Dealey Plaza was reached. The person responsible for forging this compromise was Bill Moyers.Adele Edisen Wrote:Who wrote NSAM 273? It is dated Novemebr 21, 1963. John Kennedy didn't write it; he was on an early Air Force I plane headed for San Antonio, Texas. LBJ didn't write it; he wasn't in Washington because he was at his ranch near San Antonio, Texas, getting ready to go the San Antonio Intenational Airport with Ladybird Johnson to greet and welcome the President and his official party to Texas.
Well, it was written by MacGeorge Bundy, Security Adviser to Prsident Kennedy. Appaarently, he had done this all by himself without much input from JFK. He's one of the Bundy boys, William Bundy was his brother, and both had very strong ties to Wall Street. MacGeorge Bundy was the more hawkish one.
After the assassination, Lyndon Johnson had to sign this document. I believe he did it on Tuesday, November 26, 1963. It was a document in opposition to the one Kennedy had written in October, NSAM 263. Yeah, they got their war.
Greg Burnham, you're our NSAM expert. Want to say something here? Hope you're getting better and better. Hugs to you and Julie.
Adele
The internal logic being that if NSAM 273 were altered prior to the assassination that therefore there were plans to escalate in VietNam. So if there were pre-meditated plans to make it look like the escalation was the pre-assassination will of the dead president therefore it is reasonable to assume the assassination was not carried-out with the intent of causing WWIII. Do you understand how that works? It isn't logical that the conspirators would be making plans for a VietNam theater showdown with the Communists if they had intended to incite total nuclear war with their Northwoods framing of the Communists. That VietNam showdown would be moot if they were about to launch WWIII. So therefore Johnson wouldn't need to talk them out of anything. NSAM 273 shows VietNam was the goal all along. The WWIII virus was the means of getting the investigators to go along with the cover-up.
This pattern makes it look like the plotters were talked out of the WWIII plan and talked into cooperating with the assassination with the guarantee of VietNam as a concession. Then the assassination went forth with that goal as the plan. A military coup with military justification of the removal of the Commander In Chief.
If we followed out the written will of the Founding Fathers the people would have gone to arms and defended the overthrow of their democracy by this fascist force. We would have gone to armed civil war and retaken the government. The traitors would be ferreted out and summarily executed in a public tribunal just like the Nazis.