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+--- Thread: Jim Marrs & Mike Baker: PROVE THE GRASSY KNOLL SHOT! Travel Channel: America Declassified (/thread-11630.html)
Jim Marrs & Mike Baker: PROVE THE GRASSY KNOLL SHOT! Travel Channel: America Declassified - Anthony DeFiore - 12-11-2013
Have a learned debate of the wind,
BUT we already have a clear puff/cloud of smoke in the Wiegman photo (got it right!), caused by the possible use of "black" gun powder by helmet/hat man standing at the parallel wooden fence to Elm Street and seen on the Moorman photo, a recreating by Jim marrs and Mike Baker that confirms the possibility of the puff/cloud of smoke from a rifle shot at the former point, puff/cloud of smoke viewed by Sam Holland on the Triple Overpass "hanging under the tree by the wooden fence", gun powder smelled by Sen. Yarborough and Mrs. Cabell as they drove by the North Grassy Knoll, and that the puff/cloud of smoke dissipated in a rather brisk wind (that is under debate according to NOAA and Love Field and Gary Mack).
I like the evidence proving a sniper by the wooden fence parallel to Elm Street behind the Texas Oak Tree.
Jim Marrs & Mike Baker: PROVE THE GRASSY KNOLL SHOT! Travel Channel: America Declassified - Peter Lemkin - 12-11-2013
The weapons, silencers and ammunition were likely all very special/non-standard spook stuff - supplied by WerBell and/or the CIA [same difference, really]. Why would anyone use black gun powder, unless as a diversion from a non-firing position. These were not amateurs - they were the world's best supplied by the world's best. Get a grip folks! While I'm not aware that any gunpowder used in cartridges fail to have a distinctive smell, they do have different visual and sound components, depending on bullet, gun, silencer [if any] and position, as well as sound and sight diversions [magic tricks]. I can't believe some local sharpshooters were 'tapped' and they used their 'ol trusty gun and whatever ammo was around...that is not how one pulls off such a high profile assassination. Prouty made this very clear, but so have many others.
Jim Marrs & Mike Baker: PROVE THE GRASSY KNOLL SHOT! Travel Channel: America Declassified - Albert Doyle - 12-11-2013
I don't sign on to the blunderbuss black powder theory. Seeing how there was no reason to bring attention to the fence shooter(s) I don't know what to think about it. However if Holland saw smoke then there was probably smoke there. And people did smell gunpowder.
Jim Marrs & Mike Baker: PROVE THE GRASSY KNOLL SHOT! Travel Channel: America Declassified - Keith Millea - 12-11-2013
Quote: In many of the color photos taken right after the assassination (Wilma Bond, James Towner, Arthur Rickerby, Phil Willis), you can see a tree in that location and its foliage is turning light orange-brown. This is almost certainly the "smoke" seen in a couple of frames of the B&W Wiegman film.
It's surprising to me that Anthony only remarked about the spelling issue in Tracy's post,and not bother to follow up on the quote about the photos,which could give him a qualified answer.
Just Sayin'
Jim Marrs & Mike Baker: PROVE THE GRASSY KNOLL SHOT! Travel Channel: America Declassified - Anthony DeFiore - 12-11-2013
Keith Millea Wrote:Quote: In many of the color photos taken right after the assassination (Wilma Bond, James Towner, Arthur Rickerby, Phil Willis), you can see a tree in that location and its foliage is turning light orange-brown. This is almost certainly the "smoke" seen in a couple of frames of the B&W Wiegman film.
It's surprising to me that Anthony only remarked about the spelling issue in Tracy's post,and not bother to follow up on the quote about the photos,which could give him a qualified answer.
Just Sayin'
I was mad that Tracy gave me spelling c--p! LOL! I'll re-read the post and comment. TD
Jim Marrs & Mike Baker: PROVE THE GRASSY KNOLL SHOT! Travel Channel: America Declassified - Anthony DeFiore - 12-11-2013
Tracy, I agree on the N and S Knoll shooters. I believe that Sam Holland testified to Mark Lane that he saw the "smoke/cloud/puff of smoke" under the Texas Oak tree by the sniper position by the wooden fence parallel to Elm Street and then "(the smoke) move out onto Elm Street." Youtube has the Rush to Judgment. I'm going to review it again. Number 100+ view for me! LOL! There is a book called "Science and The Detective" by Richard H. Kaye p. 105, that describes how a "cloud of smoke" can be made from a rifle shot. I'll link it.
http://books.google.com/books?id=kNyPkc2ADTsC&pg=PA105&lpg=PA105&dq=cause+of+a+large+gun+smoke+cloud+when+fired+from+a+rifle&source=bl&ots=wYZEM8henU&sig=szx7kT3tCLI_OFPBY3R30zfxNi8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=FmiBUp6eI62x4AO9i4CIBA&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=cause%20of%20a%20large%20gun%20smoke%20cloud%20when%20fired%20from%20a%20rifle&f=false
Agreed on the mud, cigarette butts and footprints. I think James Files said he put a used cartridge of the fence when he left the scene after shooting (If believable), but a cartridge was found along the wooden fence parallel to Elm. Somebody was there, and it was the sniper IMHO.
Jim Marrs & Mike Baker: PROVE THE GRASSY KNOLL SHOT! Travel Channel: America Declassified - Vasilios Vazakas - 12-11-2013
I would not believe anything Files says. There is also a possibilty that the smoke was a result of
a firecracker used for diversion
Jim Marrs & Mike Baker: PROVE THE GRASSY KNOLL SHOT! Travel Channel: America Declassified - David Josephs - 12-11-2013
When I joined this discussion years ago I thought - How hard is it to find examples of similar rifles blowing smoke ??
Well, not too hard at all I found....
And the wind was gusting... not a steady 20mph as GMACK/LDUNKEL would have you believe.
AND the shooter is shielded by trees...
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But we should not discount that the leaves WERE changing and may have added to the size of what appeared to be the smoke rising...
The point "B" appears the same shape as the leaves to the left side of the Willis crop - so I think there was smoke AND leaves...
One has to completely disregards HOLLAND's testimony and his movements after the shots to DISBELIEVE a shot originated there with a puff of smoke...
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Jim Marrs & Mike Baker: PROVE THE GRASSY KNOLL SHOT! Travel Channel: America Declassified - Darrell Curtis - 12-11-2013
*SIGH*
This is my first, and likely, my last post to this or any JFK
assassination discussion forum.
While I am NOT a "Lone Nutter", I have serious reservations about
what passes for "JFK assassination research". I've been watching/lurking this
and the other major forums for years. And this thread is typical of what I see.
Bickering and in-fighting. It all proves true a quote from Vince Salandria:
"...and not waste anymore time micro-analyzing the evidence. That's exactly
what they want us to do. They have have kept us busy for so long. And I bet buddy,
that is what will happen to you. They will keep you very, very busy, and eventually
they will wear you down."
Or keep you lost with your head in the sand of evidence, both false and real.
And fighting amongst yourselves. Distracted and ineffective. Who cares about
smoke, or not smoke? What's the point of "badge man", "black dog man" "umbrella
man", "dark complected man" or anything else. There's more than enough evidence
to prove Oswald innocent in a court of law. That should be the focus of efforts of
those who really want to prove the case of conspiracy, and the Government's deception.
Some, very few, are sincere. Most, I feel are more interested in conspiratainment. It's
a hobby and past-time. After having had my nose in every conceivable book, magazine and
website about this for the last thirteen years, I've concluded that it's a waste of time to
bother with the details. We'll never know with 100% who was involved, who wasn't who did what
where when and how. JFK's murder was designed to be confusing, misleading, deceptive and
unsolvable. But the case for Oswald's innocence, and a case for conspiracy *can* be proven.
Sadly that's not what many want. And they'll spend the rest of their lives chasing their tails
trying to prove who was shooting from where, what that blob in a film or photograph is, or
is not, was that smoke or something else. By the time something meaningful could have been
done about this for the public good, it will be far too late. Lincoln's murder is a good example
of that.
I'm sure this will generate a great deal of anger and condemnation. I have no use for that,
so if you want to say something constructive, e-mail or PM me.
Thank you
Jim Marrs & Mike Baker: PROVE THE GRASSY KNOLL SHOT! Travel Channel: America Declassified - Tracy Riddle - 12-11-2013
Darrell, I totally agree with you.
Still, it's human nature to try to figure all this stuff out.
Vasilios, I remember Gerry Patrick Hemming (if you find him trustworthy) telling one researcher that there was no shooting team behind the north knoll; only a diversionary team with a firecracker. But he told so many different stories to different people.