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+--- Thread: Nelson Mandela. Free at last. (/thread-11828.html)
Nelson Mandela. Free at last. - Magda Hassan - 09-12-2013
Tracy Riddle Wrote:More tinfoil to chew on.
http://archive.is/adTW9
Mandela is named as MI6 agent Mandela is named as MI6 agent
Not really. Seems legit. Steven Dorril has quite a good track record on these matters and is well informed. Generally speaking. He was a partner with Ramsey at Lobster for many years. Also if you take on board John Pilger and Naomi Klein's articles above it seems clear compromises, some very bad, were made which were not in the interest of the South African people. The timing of the release of this information is interesting as well as it was just when NM was leaving the presidency. Maybe he didn't play ball re Gadaffi?
Nelson Mandela. Free at last. - David Guyatt - 09-12-2013
Magda Hassan Wrote:Tracy Riddle Wrote:More tinfoil to chew on.
http://archive.is/adTW9
Mandela is named as MI6 agent Mandela is named as MI6 agent
Not really. Seems legit. Steven Dorril has quite a good track record on these matters and is well informed. Generally speaking. He was a partner with Ramsey at Lobster for many years. Also if you take on board John Pilger and Naomi Klein's articles above it seems clear compromises, some very bad, were made which were not in the interest of the South African people. The timing of the release of this information is interesting as well as it was just when NM was leaving the presidency. Maybe he didn't play ball re Gadaffi?
Stephen is a careful and knowledgeable researcher and if he says this is the case, then I, for one, would be inclined to agree.
Nelson Mandela. Free at last. - Tracy Riddle - 09-12-2013
Yes, I mean "tinfoil" in a sarcastic sort of way. It actually makes perfect sense that Western intelligence agencies would want to control the outcome of a post-Apartheid South Africa, by splitting off the Communists and radicals like Chris Hani from the moderates they can "do business with." Which makes it extra ironic that right-wingers today are screaming about Mandella being a communist. He certainly wasn't during the last half of his life.
Nelson Mandela. Free at last. - Peter Lemkin - 09-12-2013
Magda Hassan Wrote:Tracy Riddle Wrote:More tinfoil to chew on.
http://archive.is/adTW9
Mandela is named as MI6 agent Mandela is named as MI6 agent
Not really. Seems legit. Steven Dorril has quite a good track record on these matters and is well informed. Generally speaking. He was a partner with Ramsey at Lobster for many years. Also if you take on board John Pilger and Naomi Klein's articles above it seems clear compromises, some very bad, were made which were not in the interest of the South African people. The timing of the release of this information is interesting as well as it was just when NM was leaving the presidency. Maybe he didn't play ball re Gadaffi?
Color me very skeptical of this....this smells to me as a smear of Mandela to progressives and radicals who hold him in high esteem, in line with the way he was kept on the US terrorist list until five years ago. Mandela was no saint, but an agent of Western Intelligence [I think] he was not either. They hated him and hate him still. He was pragmatic and worked with many who could advance his causes - on a case-by-case level, but I don't think he ever sold out. At the same moment the S.A. Communist Party is saying that Mandela was always a member.....it wouldn't be a shock to me...but the two just don't jibe...I think neither is true. He was sympathetic to the S.A. Communist Party ideals [my guess] and worked with them. Time will tell...but expect lots more disinfo than info now and for the next few weeks.
Nelson Mandela. Free at last. - Magda Hassan - 09-12-2013
Peter Lemkin Wrote:Yes, definitely a smear otherwise they'd say nothing. It's like gloating. South Africa would have been a very active place for MI6 given its history and resources. I expect they kept a close watch on several up and coming leaders and cultivated them with or with out their knowledge. I don't think he was amember of the CP either. Just close to individual members from time to time. He was quite anti communist in many respects and instrumental in a purge of the communist from the ANC at one time. In later years he did study the works of communists and work with them in the armed actions but he was more influenced by others like thos involved in Indian independence. I don't think his heart was in the CP as at heart he was a nationalist. His membership may have been strategic. Like you say he was pragmatic.Magda Hassan Wrote:Tracy Riddle Wrote:More tinfoil to chew on.
http://archive.is/adTW9
Mandela is named as MI6 agent Mandela is named as MI6 agent
Not really. Seems legit. Steven Dorril has quite a good track record on these matters and is well informed. Generally speaking. He was a partner with Ramsey at Lobster for many years. Also if you take on board John Pilger and Naomi Klein's articles above it seems clear compromises, some very bad, were made which were not in the interest of the South African people. The timing of the release of this information is interesting as well as it was just when NM was leaving the presidency. Maybe he didn't play ball re Gadaffi?
Color me very skeptical of this....this smells to me as a smear of Mandela to progressives and radicals who hold him in high esteem, in line with the way he was kept on the US terrorist list until five years ago. Mandela was no saint, but an agent of Western Intelligence [I think] he was not either. They hated him and hate him still. He was pragmatic and worked with many who could advance his causes - on a case-by-case level, but I don't think he ever sold out. At the same moment the S.A. Communist Party is saying that Mandela was always a member.....it wouldn't be a shock to me...but the two just don't jibe...I think neither is true. He was sympathetic to the S.A. Communist Party ideals [my guess] and worked with them. Time will tell...but expect lots more disinfo than info now and for the next few weeks.
Nelson Mandela. Free at last. - Peter Lemkin - 10-12-2013
Poem by Dr. Maya Angelou in memory of Nelson Mandela. They first met in 1962 before he was imprisoned.
MAYA ANGELOU: in memory of Nelson Mandela
His day is done.
Is done.
The news came on the wings of a wind, reluctant to carry its burden.
Nelson Mandela's day is done.
The news, expected and still unwelcome, reached us in the United States, and suddenly our world became somber.
Our skies were leadened.
His day is done.
Is done.
The news came on the wings of a wind, reluctant to carry its burden.
Nelson Mandela's day is done.
The news, expected and still unwelcome, reached us in the United States, and suddenly our world became somber.
Our skies were leadened.
His day is done.
We see you, South African people standing speechless at the slamming of that final door through which no traveler returns.
Our spirits reach out to you Bantu, Zulu, Xhosa, Boer.
We think of you and your son of Africa, your father, your one more wonder of the world.
We see you, South African people standing speechless at the slamming of that final door through which no traveler returns.
Our spirits reach out to you Bantu, Zulu, Xhosa, Boer.
We think of you and your son of Africa, your father, your one more wonder of the world.
We send our souls to you as you reflect upon your David armed with a mere stone, facing down the mighty Goliath.
Your man of strength, Gideon, emerging triumphant.
Although born into the brutal embrace of Apartheid, scarred by the savage atmosphere of racism, unjustly imprisoned in the bloody maws of South African dungeons.
Would the man survive? Could the man survive?
His answer strengthened men and women around the world.
In the Alamo, in San Antonio, Texas, on the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco, in Chicago's Loop, in New Orleans Mardi Gras, in New York City's Times Square, we watched as the hope of Africa sprang through the prison's doors.
His stupendous heart intact, his gargantuan will hale and hearty.
He had not been crippled by brutes, nor was his passion for the rights of human beings diminished by twenty-seven years of imprisonment.
Even here in America, we felt the cool, refreshing breeze of freedom.
When Nelson Mandela took the seat of Presidency in his country where formerly he was not even allowed to vote we were enlarged by tears of pride, as we saw Nelson Mandela's former prison guards invited, courteously, by him to watch from the front rows his inauguration.
We saw him accept the world's award in Norway with the grace and gratitude of the Solon in Ancient Roman Courts, and the confidence of African Chiefs from ancient royal stools.
No sun outlasts its sunset, but it will rise again and bring the dawn.
Yes, Mandela's day is done, yet we, his inheritors, will open the gates wider for reconciliation, and we will respond generously to the cries of Blacks and Whites, Asians, Hispanics, the poor who live piteously on the floor of our planet.
He has offered us understanding.
We will not withhold forgiveness even from those who do not ask.
Nelson Mandela's day is done, we confess it in tearful voices, yet we lift our own to say thank you.
We will not withhold forgiveness even from those who do not ask.
Nelson Mandela's day is done, we confess it in tearful voices, yet we lift our own to say thank you.
Thank you our Gideon, thank you our David, our great courageous man.
We will not forget you, we will not dishonor you, we will remember and be glad that you lived among us, that you taught us, and that you loved us all.
Nelson Mandela. Free at last. - Peter Lemkin - 10-12-2013
PRESIDENT DILMA ROUSSEFF: [translated] Apartheid, defeated by Mandela and the South African people, was the most elaborate and cruel form of social and political inequality of modern times. This great leader had his eyes focused on the future of his country, of his people and of all Africa. He also was the source of inspiration for similar struggles in Brazil and throughout South America.
Madiba, as you affectionately called him, stands as an example and a key reference for all of usfor the stoic, firm patience in enduring prison and suffering; for the enlightened strength and determination that he showed in his fight; for his deep commitment to justice and peace; above all, for his moral and ethical superiority. He was able to turn the quest for truth and forgiveness into the pillars of national reconciliation and the building of a new South Africa. We must pay homage to this unmatched expression of greatness and humanism as was the case of Nelson Mandela. His fight weighed beyond, way beyond his national border, and inspired men and women, young people and adults, to fight for independence and social justice. He left many lessons, not only for his beloved African continent, but also for all who seek freedom, social justice and world peace.
Like the South Africans who mourn Madiba, Nelson Mandela, with your chants, we, the Brazilian nation, proudly carry African blood in our veins, and we, too, mourn and celebrate the example of this great leader who belongs to the pantheon of humankind. The Brazilian government and people bow down before the memory of Nelson Mandela. I would like to convey to Ms. Graça Machel and family members, to President Zuma and to all South Africans our deepest feelings of pain and sorrow. Long live Mandela forever!
Nelson Mandela. Free at last. - Peter Lemkin - 10-12-2013
PRESIDENT RAÚL CASTRO: [translated] President Jacob Zuma, relatives of Nelson Mandela, distinguished dignitaries, fraternal people of South Africa, let us pay emotional tribute to Nelson Mandela, the ultimate symbol of dignity and unwavering dedication to the revolutionary struggle for freedom and justice, a prophet of unity, peace and reconciliation.
Alongside his comrades in the struggle, Mandela has led his people in the battle against apartheid to open the way to a new South Africa, a nonracial and a united South Africa in its quest for happiness, equality and the well-being of all of its children, a nation bent on overcoming the consequences of colonialism, slavery and racial segregation. Setting an example of integrity and perseverance, Mandela later headed the efforts to eradicate poverty, reduce inequality and create opportunities for all.
Mandela has set out an insurmountable example to Latin America and the Caribbean, which are currently moving towards unity and integration for the benefit of their peoples on the basis of respect for diversity and convinced that it is only through dialogue and cooperation that discrepancies can be resolved and a civilized relationship established between those who think differently. As Mandela's life teaches us, only the concerted efforts of all nations will empower humanity to respond to the enormous challenges that today threaten its very existence.
Cuba, a country born in the struggle for independence and for the abolition of slavery, and whose children have African blood in their veins, has had the privilege of fighting and building alongside the African nations. We shall never forget Mandela's moving homage to our common struggle when on the occasion of his visit to our country on July 26, 1991, he saidand I quote"The Cuban people have a special place in the hearts of the peoples of Africa."
I remember at this moment his bond of affection with Fidel Castro, a symbol of the fraternal relations between Africans and Cubans. Fidel has saidand I quote"Nelson Mandela will not go down in history for the 27 consecutive years he spent incarcerated without ever renouncing his ideas. He will go down in history because he was capable of cleaning up his soul from the poison that such an unfair punishment could have planted there, and for his generosity and wisdom, which at the time of victory allowed him to lead with great talent his selfless and heroic people, knowing that the new South Africa could not be built on hatred and vengeance."
Nelson Mandela. Free at last. - Peter Lemkin - 10-12-2013
NKOSAZANA DLAMINI-ZUMA: From north to south, from east, central and west, Africa is in mourning, together with the rest of the world, for the loss of its greatest. At the same time, they are celebrating the life of a gallant fighter, an ANC leader, leader of the South African people as a whole, leader of the African people and the rest of the world. We stand proud of you, Madiba, who represents the best Pan-African values of freedom, solidarity, service to the people, equality, sacrifice and defense of the human dignity.
Throughout his life, he lived these values in struggle, always willing to serve, prepared to listen and respect all views, including those that differed from his. His humility, compassion, commitment, courage and openness meant that working and engaging with him or listening to him, talking to him, was always a lesson. At the same time, he could be resolutely firm and stand his ground, especially when it came to the defense of the oppressed and the poor.
Madiba is part of the ranks of the many Pan-Africanist heroes and heroines whose commitment to the liberation and renaissance of Africa and to the equality and justice remains steadfast throughout their lives. As one of the young militants of the ANC Youth League in 1944, he said he understood that South Africa's struggles were closely linked to struggles of the oppressed people across Africa, and indeed the world. And he said to the young Youth Leaguers in 1951 at their Congress, "History is on the side of the oppressed."
The growing Pan-African movement, the increasing number of independent African countries and the unflinching support and solidarity of the struggles of those still under the yoke of oppression was a source of inspiration to him and his peers. It was this solidarity that Madiba counted on when he was sent by the ANC in 1962 to mobilize support for South Africa's turn to armed struggle. His campaign to mobilize support took him across the continent, to Ethiopia, Egypt, Algeria, Tunisia, Guinea, Morocco, Mali, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Senegal and many others. Wherever he went on our continent, doors were opened. He got military training, and he got support for the struggle.
Nelson Mandela. Free at last. - Peter Lemkin - 10-12-2013
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Mandela taught us the power of action, but he also taught us the power of ideas; the importance of reason and arguments; the need to study not only those who you agree with, but also those who you don't agree with. He understood that ideas cannot be contained by prison walls or extinguished by a sniper's bullet. He turned his trial into an indictment of apartheid, because of his eloquence and his passion, but also because of his training as an advocate. He used decades of prison to sharpen his arguments, but also to spread his thirst for knowledge to others in the movement. And he learned the language and the customs of his oppressors, so that one day he might better convey to them how their own freedom depend upon his.
Mandela demonstrated that action and ideas are not enough. No matter how right, they must also be chiseled into law and institutions. He was practical, testing his beliefs against the hard surface of circumstance and history. On core principles he was unyielding, which is why he could rebuff offers of unconditional release, reminding the apartheid regime that prisoners cannot enter into contracts. But as he showed in painstaking negotiations to transfer power and draft new laws, he was not afraid to compromise for the sake of a larger goal. And because he was not only a leader of a movement but a skillful politician, the Constitution that emerged was worthy of this multiracial democracy, true to his vision of laws that protect minority as well as majority rights and the precious freedoms of every South African.
And finally, Mandela understood the ties that bind the human spirit. There is a word in South Africa, ubuntu, a word that captures Mandela's greatest gifthis recognition that we are all bound together in ways that are invisible to the eye, that there is a oneness to humanity, that we achieve ourselves by sharing ourselves with others and caring for those around us. We can never know how much of this sense was innate in him or how much was shaped in a dark and solitary cell. But we remember the gestures, large and smallintroducing his jailers as honored guests at his inauguration, taking a pitch in a springbok uniform, turning his family's heartbreak into a call to confront HIV/AIDSthat revealed the depths of his empathy and his understanding. He not only embodied ubuntu, he taught millions to find that truth within themselves.
It took a man like Madiba to free not just the prisoner, but the jailer as well; to show that you must trust others so that they may trust you; to teach that reconciliation is not a matter of ignoring a cruel past, but a means of confronting it with inclusion and generosity and truth. He changed laws, but he also changed hearts.
For the people of South Africa, for those he inspired around the globe, Madiba's passing is rightly a time of mourning and a time to celebrate a heroic life. But I believe it should also prompt in each of us a time for self-reflection. With honesty, regardless of our station or our circumstance, we must ask: How well have I applied his lessons in my own life? It's a question I ask myself, as a man and as a president.
We know that, like South Africa, the United States had to overcome centuries of racial subjugation. As was true here, it took sacrifice, the sacrifices of countless people, known and unknown, to see the dawn of a new day. Michelle and I are beneficiaries of that struggle. But in America and in South Africa and in countries all around the globe, we cannot allow our progress to cloud the fact that our work is not yet done.
The struggles that follow the victory of formal equality or universal franchise may not be as filled with drama and moral clarity as those that came before, but they are no less important, for around the world today we still see children suffering from hunger and disease, we still see run-down schools, we still see young people without prospects for the future. Around the world today, men and women are still imprisoned for their political beliefs and are still persecuted for what they look like and how they worship and who they love. That is happening today.
And so, we, too, must act on behalf of justice. We, too, must act on behalf of peace. There are too many people who happily embrace Madiba's legacy of racial reconciliation, but passionately resist even modest reforms that would challenge chronic poverty and growing inequality. There are too many leaders who claim solidarity with Madiba's struggle for freedom, but do not tolerate dissent from their own people. And there are too many of ustoo many of us on the sidelines, comfortable in complacency or cynicism when our voices must be heard.
The questions we face todayhow to promote equality and justice, how to uphold freedom and human rights, how to end conflict and sectarian warthese things do not have easy answers. But there were no easy answers in front of that child born in World War I. Nelson Mandela reminds us that it always seems impossible until it is done. South Africa shows that is true. South Africa shows we can change, that we can choose a world defined not by our differences, but by our common hopes. We can choose a world defined not by conflict, but by peace and justice and opportunity.
We will never see the likes of Nelson Mandela again. But let me say to the young people of Africa and the young people around the world: You, too, can make his life's work your own. Over 30 years ago, while still a student, I learned of Nelson Mandela and the struggles taking place in this beautiful land, and it stirred something in me. It woke me up to my responsibilities to others and to myself, and it set me on an improbable journey that finds me here today. And while I will always fall short of Madiba's example, he makes me want to be a better man. He speaks to what's best inside us.
After this great liberator is laid to rest, and when we have returned to our cities and villages and rejoined our daily routines, let us search for his strength. Let us search for his largeness of spirit somewhere inside of ourselves. And when the night grows dark, when injustice weighs heavy on our hearts, when our best-laid plans seem beyond our reach, let us think of Madiba and the words that brought him comfort within the four walls of his cell: "It matters not how strait the gate, how charged the punishment, the scroll, I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul."
What a magnificent soul it was. We will miss him deeply. May God bless the memory of Nelson Mandela. May God bless the people of South Africa.