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+--- Thread: The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? (/Thread-The-Magic-Tonsillectomy-or-Armstrong-s-Voodoo-Science)
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Bob Prudhomme - 26-03-2014
Tell me, Greg, have you ever had your tonsils removed, or known anyone who had theirs removed?
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Greg R Parker - 26-03-2014
Albert Doyle Wrote:Mr Parker, could you specifically answer this in regard to Dr Philben's alleged tonsillectomy method. I see you skipped it above:
Since tonsils are known to infect easily and cause problems would a medical doctor risk his license by not removing the tonsils when they could then infect and have to be removed later? What would the doctor say if the patient had serious complications from tonsils that weren't removed? How would he explain it as a registered doctor in Texas prone to medical standards?
Seeing how Dr Philben would most likely be sued if the young Oswald had an infection of the tonsils after this non-removal type of tonsillectomy how do you explain his cavalier recklessness as far as the state medical board? Do you think Dr Philben might face problems from them if this happened? Do you think the doctor would risk his medical license by entering a false procedure on the medical form? How do you account for this vs the potential negatives from not removing the tonsils?
You may have missed other responses here. If you care to check them you'll find that quacks like Philben had to wait until the 1970s to get even pseudo-credentials as "Doctors of Osteopathy". This disgraceful turn of events occurred solely because of a shortage of regular doctors. Your question therefore is meaningless. He presumably would have been in trouble had he attempted such an operation. His only option would be to refer the patient to a REAL doctor. But then, osteopaths do not believe in drugs or operations, even if, in modern times, some incorporate those treatments.
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Greg R Parker - 26-03-2014
Bob Prudhomme Wrote:Tell me, Greg, have you ever had your tonsils removed, or known anyone who had theirs removed?
Bob, can I ask for relevance first? Thanks.
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Bob Prudhomme - 26-03-2014
Greg R Parker Wrote:Bob Prudhomme Wrote:Tell me, Greg, have you ever had your tonsils removed, or known anyone who had theirs removed?
Bob, can I ask for relevance first? Thanks.
Or, you could just answer the question. Is there a problem with that?
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Greg R Parker - 26-03-2014
Bob Prudhomme Wrote:Greg R Parker Wrote:Bob Prudhomme Wrote:Tell me, Greg, have you ever had your tonsils removed, or known anyone who had theirs removed?
Bob, can I ask for relevance first? Thanks.
Or, you could just answer the question. Is there a problem with that?
Bob,
I would not ask a personal question of you without explaining the context to the discussion. Do you have a problem with that?
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Greg R Parker - 26-03-2014
Jim Hargrove Wrote:Since medical records were not presented for this procedure by the FBI, the insurance form is all John had to work with. Expecting him to find another report more than 50 years later is silly. But Oswald probably had a tonsillectomy.
Tonsils CAN grow back, but they usually don't. The fact that one Oswald had tonsillitis is an indication--though not proof--that he was different than the Oswald who had the procedure. One side of this debate is working awfully hard to make this simple situation sound impossible when, in fact, it is the MOST LIKELY conclusion from the available evidence. That's all.
This CU of Harvey Oswald's left elbow at DPD headquarters seems to confirm the autopsy report indicating no scar is visible from the gunshot wound Lee Oswald acquired just six years earlier.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5817[/ATTACH]
JH: "Tonsils CAN grow back, but they usually don't. The fact that one Oswald had tonsillitis is an indication--though not proof--that he was different than the Oswald who had the procedure. One side of this debate is working awfully hard to make this simple situation sound impossible when, in fact, it is the MOST LIKELY conclusion from the available evidence. That's all."
That's not what is in the book now, is it Jim?
This is the type of sentiment expressed in the book, isn't it?
Quote:So.... Did Lee Harvey Oswald's tonsils grow back? Were Marine medics hallucinating? Or is there a more likely explanation?
Quote:The Warren Commission, John Armstrong believes, combined the biographies of two different people to arrive at the classic legend of Lee Harvey Oswald. One was a Russian speaking youth, possibly the child of Hungarian parents. Armstrong notes that this person was referred to as "Harvey." The other was a taller but similar looking boy with a Southern U.S. accent, born as "Lee Harvey Oswald." Both may well have become entangled at an early age in an intelligence operation. It was "Harvey" who traveled to Russia and was shot dead by Jack Ruby. It was "Lee" who got into a fight in the ninth grade at Beauregard Junior High School and lost a tooth.
One Lee Harvey Oswald had his tonsils removed on January 17, 1945. The other did not.
No admission that that tonsils can grow back there is there?
Nope. Just sarcasm about the possibility as expressed in the oh so garish header MAGIC TONSILLECTOMY
So Jim, why has the magic tonsillectomy not made it into the new website?
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Albert Doyle - 26-03-2014
Greg R Parker Wrote:You may have missed other responses here. If you care to check them you'll find that quacks like Philben had to wait until the 1970s to get even pseudo-credentials as "Doctors of Osteopathy". This disgraceful turn of events occurred solely because of a shortage of regular doctors. Your question therefore is meaningless. He presumably would have been in trouble had he attempted such an operation. His only option would be to refer the patient to a REAL doctor. But then, osteopaths do not believe in drugs or operations, even if, in modern times, some incorporate those treatments.
It could be that the experimental child Oswald was directed to such a doctor in order to limit exposure to any medical record. You might be missing the obvious here. This needed to be done years ago when someone could have directly asked Philben about his treatment of tonsillectomies in the 1940's. His associates could have been asked too. Even the insurance policy itself could have been covert compensation to Marguerite for her participation in the experiment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Taylor_Still
.
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Bob Prudhomme - 26-03-2014
Greg R Parker Wrote:Bob Prudhomme Wrote:Greg R Parker Wrote:Bob Prudhomme Wrote:Tell me, Greg, have you ever had your tonsils removed, or known anyone who had theirs removed?
Bob, can I ask for relevance first? Thanks.
Or, you could just answer the question. Is there a problem with that?
Bob,
I would not ask a personal question of you without explaining the context to the discussion. Do you have a problem with that?
Personally, I would not hesitate to answer such a question, unless, of course, I was afraid what answering this question might reveal about my ignorance of the topic, as I am certain you are.
If you had your tonsils removed, or were acquainted with someone, preferably a 5 or 6 year old child, who had theirs removed, you would know that recovering from a tonsillectomy is a very painful experience. My sister and I had ours removed electively when I was 4 years old and I still recall the pain and discomfort and my mother's efforts to soothe and comfort us. It was a couple of days before I could swallow anything beyond cold Jell-O.
LHO would have been 5 turning 6 in 1945. If his tonsillectomy was even half as painful as mine was, I'm sure Marguerite Oswald would have heard all about his discomfort in the next few days, and her affirmation that a tonsillectomy was indeed performed on LHO was likely based on this experience.
However, you seem to have drawn the conclusion that a "tonsillectomy" was performed on LHO by means of some obscure voodoo faith healing, based upon your obviously limited knowledge of osteopathy. Would you be so good as to provide evidence to this forum of Dr. Philben, or any other osteopath, performing non-surgical tonsillectomies (or removal of any other organ, tumour, etc.) on American patients? Keep in mind that the very concept of a tonsillectomy, or any other surgical procedure, goes completely against the beliefs of osteopathy.
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - David Josephs - 26-03-2014
So here you have it... In response to the FBI stating that Mrs Oswald's filling in of an insurance form onwhich she stated her son had a tonsilectomy on January 17, 1945, Mr. P wants us to believe that by the mid 40's, the middle of the 20th century, a licensed doctor in the state of TX would chant, light fires, and perform faith-healing ceremomies while convincing the boy's mother an actual surgery had been performed, when it hadn't.
Quote: Lee's tonsillitis was treated along osteopathic lines which may have mimicked for instance, a faith healing session in which Marguerite honestly believed the tonsils had been removed.
Not "did" mimick but "may have", as Mr P has no first hand knowledge or information of said surgery... so he guesses as to what might have occurred since the good Dr. looked into alternative medical processes as many medical professionals of that time did, who were not interested in the drug-based therapies being promoted by the drug companies of the time... If one reads "The Drug Story" one finds that there were series efforts by these compies to discredit ANY non-drug based midical processes... but that's another story. Dr Philben is to be completely discredited on the word of one and only one man...
So I got onto Google and lo and behold the Grove Medical Center Clinic that Dr Philben founded is still there. I spoke to the Pharmacist there just now, an older man who remembers Dr Philben as a pediatrician who would have performed surgeries like tonsilectomies quite routinely....
That Mr P must disparage a man's work and community service for which he was recognized and awarded is quite low... but then even if the surgery was perfomed, he has the fallback position that SOMETIMES (very rarely according to every medicall journal I've read) the tonsils will grow back... at least he got that part right...
I am more than willing to give Mr P the possiblity that they did indeed grow back... what is a bit harder to overcome is that Nelson Delgado and a few others remembers LEE in Platoon 1069 or 1070, while the man who was treated for tonsil problems was in platoon 2060.. Allen Felde, who I have referred to in the past (CE1962) was with HARVEY in platoon 2060 (among others who were never called to offer their testimony) and his FBI report contradicts the FBI timeline of when Oswald was where they say he was (CE1961)...
This is simply not about tonsilectomies.... this remains about the volume of evidence which the FBI offered to the WC detailing the location and activities of the man accused of killing JFK, and the subsequent investigations to determine the bona fides of such evidence... which, at most every turn, reveals not simle inconsistencies, but unresolveable conflicts... Add now the follow-up interviews of those who were there, with HARVEY or LEE at the time and the case for the existence of two men whose lives were forged into one for whatever purposes one can imagine - given the real possibility that Angleton, Hoover and Military Intelligence were aware of and supporting these types of anti-Communist programs in an effort to stem the post WWII tide of Communist expansion and infultration.
Mr. P will continue to try and argue the minutia as if each puzzle piece lives on an isolated island, unconnected to anything else...
After over a year of detailed study of the evidence, reading each page of H&L more than once, reading each page of the associated original source notebooks and documents, and talking it through with Mr Armstong... I think I can now say in an informed manner that the EVIDENCE reveals an attempt to cover-up the existence of these two seperate individuals... that the volume of original materials which has been replaced by copies nd/or have gone completely missing speaks just as loud as the connections themselves.
This piece of the pie is critical to understanding the times and assassination... just as the great work of all our other most respected authors and researchers have uncovered given the time, energy and tenacity with which they approached their section of this HUGE puzzle...
There will always be detracters... god bless 'em, for as they continue to ask us to defend our work by attacking it, we so easily reveal the weaknesses and biases in theirs.
DJ
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Albert Doyle - 26-03-2014
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