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+--- Thread: Celluloid Doppelganger: Why the Zapruder Film's Authenticity Can Be Argued (/thread-2854.html)
Celluloid Doppelganger: Why the Zapruder Film's Authenticity Can Be Argued - Jack White - 21-01-2010
Nathaniel Heidenheimer Wrote:Many who have studied the Z-film longer than I seem to have concluded it is a fruitless path, that is an endless circle by design.
I cannot agree one way or the other yet, because until now I have lacked an entry-ramp into the vitriol that is the Z-film debate. It is telling, perhaps that It has been so difficult for me to grasp the stuff, given that I am been reading about the assassination for about six years now.(although very far from full time). Yet I find Doug Hornes book just such an entry ramp. I have to say however that commentary with the weight of Brugioni, combined with the comments of the extremely cautious, almost anti-conspiratorial Jeremy Gunn who served as Horne's boss on the ARRB, make the z-film section extremely provocative. Those who dismiss it based on a'priori assumtions about the fruitlessness of following a path that is more fork than road, are missing out on some amazing comments, which just might prove bunker busters.
Where I think Charles is most correct is in his general point that the assassins planned future forks in future roads at least as much as bullet trajectories, and that such a conclusion is almost impossible to avoid, the more one looks at other areas of the case. How else, for example do we explain Nixon and Bush in Dallas, with the former called in -- if we agree with Russ Baker-- late in the game at the behest of Kendal who knew far earlier? How else do we explain the seeding of conflicting LBJ narratives before the event itself? I agree with Charles general point that the fragmentation of competing explanations to the coverup was planned well before a shot was fired ( if this is, in fact his point). That in itself is also worth thinking about for anyone going on the Z-film "treadmill?" for the first time. But still I think one has to decide for themselves.
A false assumption is being made in my opinion that the plotters
assumed beforehand that 45 years later a massive army of
citizen researchers would be examining their every effort.
So it is a mistake I think to assume that they were prescient enough
to plan forks in the road for future generations. They were just
trying to avoid being caught in the present...the future be damned.
Jack
Celluloid Doppelganger: Why the Zapruder Film's Authenticity Can Be Argued - Jack White - 21-01-2010
Bruce Clemens Wrote:Jack,
I feel privileged to be able to participate in a forum such as this which hosts first-generation researchers to the events of 11/22/63. As such, you are a great asset to this forum. Reading things here, plebes like me are getting a Master's level course in the real-world from generous people like you.
You and Charles Drago have been posting entries in this thread about the JFK murder that are way, way beyond what we get in books we can order from Amazon. To me it's like investment bankers arguing the nuances of derivatives of derivatives. It is becoming way beyond complicated. I just spent a whole evening noodling on your fine video about how the Zapruder film was faked...What a mind-blower.
And then, on the Education Forum, I saw a posting where you say the Moon landing is a hoax.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=15319
You are a respected photo interpreter, and the points you made and the research you did on the Zapruder film is incredibly convincing. Because of that, this is the first time in my life that I am giving any credence to any claim that the Moon landing might indeed be faked.
Can you point me to a set of evidence similar to your work on the film in Dealey Plaza that shows Neil Armstrong was actually in a studio?
I would very much appreciate the help.
Best,
Bruce
Thanks for your interest and kind words, Bruce.
First a minor correction. I am not a FIRST generation researcher
and am barely a SECOND generation researcher.
However, I started investigating the case on November 24, 1963 and
have not stopped.
Thanks for your interest in the faked photos of the alleged Apollo
missions. I am not sure how to answer your questions except to
refer you to my websites:
http://www.aulis.com/jackstudies_index1.html
http://www.aulis.com/skeleton.htm
Check them out and report your impressions to us.
Thanks.
Jack
Celluloid Doppelganger: Why the Zapruder Film's Authenticity Can Be Argued - Charles Drago - 21-01-2010
Jack White Wrote:A false assumption is being made in my opinion that the plotters assumed beforehand that 45 years later a massive army of
citizen researchers would be examining their every effort.
So it is a mistake I think to assume that they were prescient enough
to plan forks in the road for future generations. They were just
trying to avoid being caught in the present...the future be damned.
Jack
Jack,
The plot must not be appreciated as an historical aberration -- a one-off, if you will.
Nor must the plotters -- at the Sponsor level to be sure, and with certain players at the Facilitator level -- be underestimated for their grasps of history and psychology.
If you maintain that the "forks in the road" as they exist today are the products merely of random motion, then by definition you subscribe to the grandest of coincidence theories.
If you maintain that JFK was the sole target of the Sponsors, I respectfully submit that you've failed to understand the basic nature of the ancient conflict in which JFK was the most notable 20th century casualty.
Again, this war has been waged since the Crucifixion -- at least.
The system that killed JFK is a self-correcting system. His removal was anything but a coup d'etat -- a blow against the state. Rather, it was an official act committed by the meta-state -- an act of self-defense.
It was as much an act of a war-of-choice as was the invasion of Iraq.
And the similarities don't end there.
It has always been about preservation of the lie. Or, if you prefer, the illusion of democratic choice and self-determination.
JFK's killers -- again, at the Sponsor level -- were never the slightest bit concerned about getting caught. They were and are beyond the reach of justice. Their creation and manipulation of false sponsors, doppelgangers, etc. was in service not to their own immediate/short-term safety and security, but rather to the very long-term preservation of the extant system of control of the many by the few.
The lie.
Only the likes of a JFK could threaten them.
And the threat he posed was as much spiritual in nature as it was political/material.
Charles
Celluloid Doppelganger: Why the Zapruder Film's Authenticity Can Be Argued - Jack White - 21-01-2010
Aha! You are talking about the very deep politics at the
Bilderberg level.
I am talking the operational level.
What you say about the very deep level is true.
But the very deep players do not worry about operational
details like faking films.
Jack
Celluloid Doppelganger: Why the Zapruder Film's Authenticity Can Be Argued - Charles Drago - 21-01-2010
Jack,
The Bilderberg bit is yours, not mine.
Perhaps you'll recall the previously detailed Evica/Drago plot structure, which I reproduce below in condensed form:
SPONSORS -- The all-but-bulletproof powers who ordered the murder.
FACILITATORS -- In multiple levels, from main designers and organizers (few) to trusted lieutenants, all the way down to handymen/false sponsors.
MECHANICS -- The murder and E&E teams.
Your "very deep players" are my Sponsors.
Your "operational level" is my Facilitator level.
Producing and maintaining and enhancing the "cognitive dissonance" of which I write was part of the original plot design and is part of the on-going operation to support what I term "the lie." All of this was not invented for Dealey Plaza, but only adapted from much older efforts and disciplines.
And so it goes ...
Charles
Celluloid Doppelganger: Why the Zapruder Film's Authenticity Can Be Argued - Jack White - 21-01-2010
I agree with the Evica/Drago arrangement.
But sponsors do not plan details, like fake films.
And I don't think the facilitators/mechanics planned 50 years ahead.
Our difference is in some details of the event.
I named the Bilderbergers as the type of group making up the sponsors.
There are others.
Jack
Celluloid Doppelganger: Why the Zapruder Film's Authenticity Can Be Argued - Charles Drago - 21-01-2010
This is constructive, Jack.
Let me be clear. I have never suggested that Mechanics planned ahead as you would have it. Nor did the overwhelming percentage of Facilitators.
But at the highest level of facilitation there were individuals who understood not only how to solve the immediate problem -- altering JFK's health -- but also how to fit the murder plot into the larger, older, controlling matrix designed to preserve "the lie."
We do agree that "looking ahead 50 years" was not in the Facilitators' brief.
Looking ahead for centuries surely was.
Celluloid Doppelganger: Why the Zapruder Film's Authenticity Can Be Argued - Jan Klimkowski - 21-01-2010
By very loose analogy, see The Godfather Part III.
I am not talking specifically of the JFK hit here, but of the grand, enduring, order of things.
By the time of The Godfather Part III, Michael Corleone no longer dreams of his children becoming Senators or members of Congress. Instead, Michael uses the huge profits of the Corleone family business to create a "philanthropic" foundation, and to buy a fictionalized representation of Società Generale Immobiliare, the "world's largest real estate company" and the ultimate "legitimate" business.
At the beginning of the film, Michael is blessed by an Archbishop and created a Knight Commander of the Order of Saint Silvester - a literary incarnation of an enduring, SMOM-type, octopus.
Michael thinks his family is finally becoming "legitimate".
In the Vatican, he has sufficient trust in the goodness of a Cardinal, "Lamberto", the future Pope John Paul I, to confess:
Quote:Cardinal Lamberto: Sometimes the desire to confess is overwhelming, and we must seize the moment.
Michael: What is the point of confessing if I don't repent?
Cardinal Lamberto: I hear you are a practical man. What have you got to lose? Go on.
Michael: I... betrayed my wife.
Cardinal Lamberto: Go on, my son.
Michael: I betrayed myself. I killed men. And I ordered men to be killed.
Cardinal Lamberto: Go on, my son. Go on.
Michael: It's useless.
Cardinal Lamberto: Go on, my son.
Michael: I killed... I ordered the death of my brother. He injured me. I killed my mother's son. I killed my father's son.
Cardinal Lamberto: Your sins are terrible, and it is just that you suffer. Your life could be redeemed, but I know that you don't believe that. You will not change.
In fact, Michael is about to fall foul of a massive swindle at the hands of The Godfather Part III's fictional representation of the Gladio lodge P2, which is, in part, offspring of Permindex.
Michael learns that a contract has been put on his head: he thinks by P2, but they are the facilitators. The contract has been placed by the sponsors, whose identity he neither understands nor learns. Michael is, after all, a "practical man".
For the Corleone family, it is now a question of survival. Michael makes Vincent, the bastard son of his reckless brother Sonny, the new Godfather, a wartime Godfather.
But, as the classic dark Sicilian opera, Cavalleria rusticana (literally Rustic Chivalry) climaxes, and the new and foolishly innocent Pope John Paul I challenges the sponsors and is murdered by them, the Corleone family are reminded of their place in the grand scheme.
Vincent cannot prevent Michael's daughter being slaughtered by an ancient assassin, an archetypal assassin out of Jorge Luis Borges, on the steps of the opera house.
When Michael realizes his daughter is dead, his entire face opens wide in a helpless scream of pure realization and pure horror.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a1eXN_70v0
The Corleone family were, at best, mechanics.
Celluloid Doppelganger: Why the Zapruder Film's Authenticity Can Be Argued - Jack White - 21-01-2010
"The Corleone family were, at best, mechanics."
and fictional.
Celluloid Doppelganger: Why the Zapruder Film's Authenticity Can Be Argued - Charles Drago - 22-01-2010
The fictive truth is as close to truth as we're likely to get.
The Corleone Family is modeled, at a relatively superficial level, on ... wait for it ... the Kennedy family.
Draw the analogies ... The Don is Joe Kennedy, Sr.; Sonny is Jack; Michael is Bobby; Fredo is Teddy.
But this holds only to a limited degree.
Michael's attraction to "Cardinal Lamberto" -- Coppola's take on John Paul I -- is, I'd suggest, a manifestation of his sub-conscious identification of a good soul. The soul Michael lost.
Jan is absolutely on-target: P2 and the Masons are both facilitators and false sponsors. Of a lot of things.
The ancient assassin -- whose son, the progeny of an unholy mating, bears the mental equivalent of a cloven hoof and mimics a donkey -- wears the black robe and Roman collar. He is a demon who has gone legit. At least for operational purposes.
Is not Satan's strategy to go legit?
It is all opera -- all drama. The plot to murder JFK is a plot in the artistic sense: A story, expressed in this case in three acts, rich in character and subtext. It succeeds to this day in direct proportion to its adherence to the story form that is as old as Homer -- no, make that even older.
For some American lives, there are no first acts.