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+--- Thread: What if the Zapruder film is authentic? (/thread-4382.html)
What if the Zapruder film is authentic? - David Healy - 09-09-2010
Peter Dawson Wrote:[quote=Myra Bronstein]
...
(See how we arrive back at our present contradictory situation?: half the people saying "look at the Z film - back and to the left! - it proves there was a conspiracy!" and the other half saying "the Z film was a fake - that it was a fake proves there was a conspiracy!")
100%? So, how can everyone be wrong when it comes to conspiracy? :vroam:
What if the Zapruder film is authentic? - Peter Dawson - 10-09-2010
David Healy Wrote:Peter Dawson Wrote:(See how we arrive back at our present contradictory situation?: half the people saying "look at the Z film - back and to the left! - it proves there was a conspiracy!" and the other half saying "the Z film was a fake - that it was a fake proves there was a conspiracy!")
100%? So, how can everyone be wrong when it comes to conspiracy?
I actually believe that everyone is right when it comes to JFK conspiracy - all those that believe there was a conspiracy, that is.
But if the "back and to the left/bullet from the grassy knoll" idea did happen to be an incorrect understanding of what was going on in the assassination, then those who wanted to cover up the assassination would be happy for people to latch on and passionately believe such an incorrect detail. And the idea that "the Zapruder film is a hoax" has obvious features which, when mixed in with all the other speculation about the assassination, would make it attractive as a means to keep JFK researchers at crossed purposes.
I found a really good gif at the top of this page (making no judgements about the site itself). This, possibly, is what is happening in the gif: Kennedy is leaning forward in his seat when a hugely violent force impacts him near the top of his head, coming from his rear-left. In a split second the bullet has passed, part of his skull has been blown away to the forward-right, and then his head - which has been hyperextended forward by the force of the bullet, all in the space of a split second - recoils back towards the direction the bullet came from. His body became a bit like a catapult. Already extended forward, the impact of the bullet was the final loading of the 'catapult', and when the bullet had smashed through his skull the only way his head could move was backwards (and to the left) - quite violently, given the forward hyperextension that the bullet impact had caused.
This is not my original idea, by the way. A fellow from Boston put me on to considering that the bullet may have come from that direction – from the vicinity of the Dallas City Courts Building. I am simply talking about it because since the idea piqued my interest I feel somewhat obliged to mention it whenever and wherever the JFK assassination is being discussed. I also feel a little guilty because I haven’t spent years studying the assassination, and I don’t have my head around all the details, and can’t claim to have looked at the problem from every angle.
Speaking of angles, this clip runs the Zapruder, Nix and Muchmore footage simultaneously. Are my eyes deceiving me, or is there a little puff of blood mist visible in both the Nix and Muchmore footage at the exact same time as in the Zapruder footage? It’s fairly obvious in the Nix footage, but it might be best to watch this version of the Muchmore footage on full-screen to see it – at around the 6 second mark [edit: I found it easiest to see the mist of blood in this clip if I looked for it while focusing on the head of the woman in red]. What consequences does simultaneous puffs of blood mist, across 2 or 3 different pieces of footage, have for the likelihood of this part of the Z film being somehow faked?
What if the Zapruder film is authentic? - Albert Doyle - 19-09-2010
Just chiming in that the blood/cranial fluid mist is well within gunshot wound behavior. The overpressure explosive force of a bullet passing through a human head is capable of creating such an escaping force in that short time period. We have surrounding witnesses telling of being violently impacted by debris so the speeds needed to create such forces are well within what is shown in Zapruder whether faked or not. The skull pieces speeding away in the spurt seen in frame 313 could be scientifically interpolated to determine the velocity of escaping materials.
I don't think it is wise to question the blood burst since it was witnessed and spoken of by so many other people and caught by multiple film sources. What really cinches it is the witness who spoke of an exploding melon sound like a pumpkin being smashed. That is a sound that could only be made by a head exploding open as the Zapruder film shows. What that person heard was literally the skull flap flopping open and blood mist exploding with a dull thump through air at high velocity.
Sit on a couch and tuck yourself forward. It takes muscle contraction and effort to curl forward. Moving backward from a forward tuck is more of an uncoiling reaction. I'm not entirely sure if Kennedy's back and to the left motion wasn't from a neuro-motor reflex or "death kick". The Zapruder Film captures ejecta from the skull flap but captures no ejecta from the rear wound.
Before anyone gets me wrong there's no doubt Kennedy was murdered by the already more than obvious conspiracy outlined on JFK Assassination sites. I personally think there's enough evidence for a people's Constitutional action against the United States Government for criminal conspiracy in the murder of President John F Kennedy - just in case you got me wrong.
What if the Zapruder film is authentic? - Jack White - 20-09-2010
Obviously these respondents are not familiar with
the numerous points of fakery in the film.
Jack
What if the Zapruder film is authentic? - Peter Lemkin - 20-09-2010
Jack White Wrote:Obviously these respondents are not familiar with
the numerous points of fakery in the film.
Jack
Yes, Agree. And missing the point....that the film, because parts faked and of mysterious and lied-about provenance can not be used as a timeline or proof positive of anything. That it may show some features that really occurred matters little. It shows others that didn't happen; and shows the entire series of 'events' [a mix of real and fake] in a cropped/chopped/altered-in-the-main fashion. Such would never be allowed in court and shouldn't be given much credance, IMO, as we will never know exactly what are all the real parts - and the film was faked to cover-up the most damning [to the conspirators and their backers] parts. It is an exercise in futility, IMO, to say that something seen in the film could have happened. What we want to know about Dallas is WHAT actually did happen, by whom and why. The rest is just what they want - everyone chasing after the phantoms they created to hide their crime.
What if the Zapruder film is authentic? - Phil Dragoo - 20-09-2010
Authentic? Impossible.
While it's shocking, it is a carnie sideshow on the midway.
The limo appears—poof--out of nothing, like Hawking's Big Bang.
The bubble-gum head wound not seen by anyone at Bethesda.
I had read the section in Noel Twyman's Bloody Treason, and the section in Jim Fetzer's Assassination Science, and now have his Murder in Dealey Plaza.
Horne's Inside the ARRB, Volume IV, pages 1185-1377 is quite thorough.
The two separate compartmentalized events at NPIC involving Brugiosi and McMahon.
The jet-black trapezoid with exceptionally sharp edges.
Where is the occipital wound seen by forty witnesses.
Blurring is juxtaposed with sharp focus indicating deceleration or stopping suppressed by frame removal.
The wound and Jackie's expression seem painted on.
JFK is reaching for his throat long before the head shot; and Perry et al said there was a throat wound of entry.
The head turns of Greer and Kellerman—get outta here.
The film is as authentic as the Magic Bullet or the Backyard Photos or any other aspect of the Hoax of the Century.
![[Image: feqark.jpg]](http://i48.tinypic.com/feqark.jpg)
What if the Zapruder film is authentic? - Peter Dawson - 20-09-2010
There doesn’t seem to be much rhyme or reason to many of these alleged signs that the Z film has been tampered with – nothing that guides the discussion about Zapruder film forgery at any rate.
If we go searching for a reason, the goal of disguising the much-talked-about frontal shot (which is believed to have caused the much-talked-about back-and-to-the-left movement of Kennedy’s head) would rank highly. So my question at this point is, the blood mist goes forward of JFK in all three films – Zapruder, Muchmore, and Nix – and it does so at precisely the same moment in all three films, so how did the film forgers manage to do that? Were the Nix and Muchmore films also tampered with?
Because, correct me if I'm wrong, but I correlate the forward-moving blood mist with a shot from the rear, not a shot from the front, and obviously the people who altered the Z film do too. But if they were removing evidence of a shot from the front by inserting a forward moving blood mist, how did they get at the Nix and Muchmore footage as well as the Zapruder footage?
I’m not attempting to convince people that the Z film is 100% authentic, but I’d like to be persuaded that there is a motive and a means present for any alteration to it before I accept that such alteration could have taken place.
What if the Zapruder film is authentic? - Albert Doyle - 20-09-2010
It seems strange that the shadows of the group of people on the south grass would go from blurry to sharp in one frame. Hmm.
I guess I'm a fence sitter. I believe there was a Grassy Knoll shot but it missed. The angle from the Knoll would require any bullet to cause damage in the continuing direction - of which there is none. And mercury-filled bullets sounds like making-up facts to fit the lack of evidence to me.
It is possible there was a less-than-magic bullet that pierced both Kennedy and Connally at 223-224 that was fired from a silenced rifle from Dal/Tex. This pointed round was found by either Tomlinson or the ER nurse who turned it over to Trooper Nolan and was quickly replaced with the Magic Bullet to frame Oswald - the patsy.
Nix shows ejecta exiting the rear near the Parkland rear wound.
What if the Zapruder film is authentic? - Peter Lemkin - 20-09-2010
Do yourself a favor - Read Vol. IV of Horne's book - or the others mentioned above......THEN see if you are still on the fence. If you are still then, perhaps you are the GK shooter....:top:
You also seem to continue to confuse apples and oranges......trying to pull out 'fact' from a largely fictive film. Some limited information, yes, can be had from the film; however, the main message is not only was there a conspiracy and BIG LIES on who/how/why the deed was done - but a conspiracy after the fact to hide and destroy/distort the evidence and witnesses [many killed and threatened]....that continues to this very day....and I don't expect will be over tomorrow......
What if the Zapruder film is authentic? - Charles Drago - 20-09-2010
The Z-film is a weapon of mass distraction.
It was allowed to see the light of day so as to become a major tactical component in the strategy to maximize post-event cognitive dissonance, which in turn is a dominant component in the overarching effort not to eliminate doubt, but rather to preserve doubt.
About everything.
Conspiracy is proven absent the Z-film, is it not?
The last thing the conspirators desire is universal acceptance of the LN lie.
Certainty is the enemy of the conspirators, whose goals far transcend the elimination of JFK.