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+--- Thread: John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee (/thread-11170.html)
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Phil Dragoo - 24-09-2013
Very much enjoying this interplay.
David, your specific anomalies are a sampling of the endless Dog Ate Commission's Homework cornucopia of copouts chief among them national security where none ought to exist.
For those open to the truth, these pages are more than adequate; for they who are set on auto-ignore, no example or torrent of examples will suffice.
I am delighted to have my copy of Harvey & Lee.
What is significant about 1952?
Is it the year C.D. Jackson wrote Dwight David Eisenhower's October campaign/policy speech advising government agencies to speak with a single voice?
What role did C.D. Jackson play for General Eisenhower in World War Two; what role would C.D. Jackson play in the Three Film Monte of the Z-rated film?
In the photographic forgery on the cover of LIFE?
5'9" versus 5'11"?
Unavailable W-2's?
Allen Dulles came to the fore of the American intelligence establishment and had his way for the two terms allowed.
Those were heady times: head for the gymnasium, line up facing the wall and bowing down to the atomic Mecca, clutching your little head.
There was greater clarity in literature: Orwell-Blair had published 1984 and died. Eric Hoffer nailed the True Believer to the dock.
Father Knows Best--but then, Richard Carlson as Herbert J. Philbrick, citizen, Communist, spy for the FBI--
--an FBI that Knew Best.
Our kindly grandfather Ike.
While the agents come and go
from governments to overthrow
We've got to save these rubber-tree plantings
We've got to reap these United Fruit trees
We've got to build this Iron Curtain
We've got to demonize these freaking Comm-eez
We'll send Leave It To Beaver to Minsk
Bring him back with a Minnie Very Dopey
So we can preserve this Looking Glass don't you know
Speaking in the present-tense, Gladio
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The Century of the Fed pivots at its midpoint on the axis of the Lone Gunman/Single Bullet
This Biggest of Lies is the spinning shaft of the Gladio device patented by Dull, Duller, Dulles
Playing tennis with buxom twins as German troops sent Vladimir Lenin to Petrograd
If a tree falls in the Northwoods does the Mockingbird hear it?
Apres moi les deluge say sponsors as Level Seven doors swing shut on silent bearings
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - David Josephs - 25-09-2013
Ah Phil... bravo.
Now some similarities to Bannister's two addresses...
Mrs. Myrtle Evans, 1910 Prytania Street, New Orleans, La., after first being duly sworn, ......
Mrs Evans was the TALL MO's friend for many, many years and was host to she and LEE after they left MO's sister, Lillian Murrett's at 809 French
(the address MO used to enroll LEE into Beauregard JHS)
The address we KNOW of for Myrtle Evans was 1454 St. Mary's as mentioned by Jenner.
Mr. JENNER - Well, they left New York City, I think, either on the fifth or the seventh of January 1954. Now, we have an address here in New Orleans of 1464(sic) St. Mary Street.
Mrs. MURRET - Oh, that was before the Exchange Place. She rented that from this lady who was a friend of hers.
Mr. JENNER - Was that Myrtle Evans?
Mrs. MURRET - Yes; Myrtle Evans. She was a friend of hers.
Mr. JENNER - I believe she also lived for a time at 1910 Prytania, didn't she?
Mrs. MURRET - I think that's right. I'm not sure about those different places, I mean, how she would move from one to the other, but she was at several places up in there before she went to Exchange Place.
Mr. JENNER - Well, we appear from our records to have them living on St. Mary Street in New Orleans in May or June of 1954, until about February 1955.
Mrs. MURRET - Well, I don't know anything about that. I know Myrtle Evans was managing that apartment where she lived.
Mr. JENNER - Do you know how it was that she went to live at 126 Exchange Place in New Orleans?
Mrs. MURRET - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - Was that 1954 or 1955?
Mrs. MURRET - I don't know--whatever you have down there probably is the right year, but they lived at Myrtle's house first
1454 St. Mary's and 1910 Prythania are the same house that borders both streets, yet make it appear as if MO has moved a number of times between the Murretts and 126 Exchange..
It appears that Jenner is trying to make it look like they are actually two seperate places... and the records STILL conflict...
126 Exchange is the place Myra DeRouse takes an injured HARVEY home to in early Spring (Feb/March) 1954.... while the FBI has them living on St Mary's until the following year.
Her sister Lillian tells us they only stayed with her for a couple weeks after arriving JANUARY 8 or 9, 1954.
Starting on page 114 of H&L we find the evidence found that places MO and son at both EXCHANGE and ST.MARY's at the same time thru
This is a letter from OCTOBER 1954 with the return address of 126 Exchange. The letter following from Nov 54 is also from Exchange
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/html/WH_Vol21_0055b.htm
and that's when she went to Exchange Alley.
Mr. JENNER - O.K. That was in April of 1955; is that right?
Mrs. EVANS - Yes, and I never saw her after that.
Final note... the Beauregard JHS record shows for the 54-55 school year - 9th grade - 12 absences and 168 days "Re Ad" which was defined by Asst Principal HEAD as the # of days the student attends.
Add them together to get the 180 day school year.
Two lines above we have 89 + 1 day absent for the FIRST TERM of 53-54... with yet another line below that with 90 + 4 days absent for the SPRING term for a total comined year of 184 school days.
According the the NYC school records LEE OSWALD attended PS44 from 9/14/53 until 1/8/54.
Nice trick!
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Jim Hargrove - 25-09-2013
David Josephs Wrote:Final note... the Beauregard JHS record shows for the 54-55 school year - 9th grade - 12 absences and 168 days "Re Ad" which was defined by Asst Principal HEAD as the # of days the student attends.
Add them together to get the 180 day school year.
Two lines above we have 89 + 1 day absent for the FIRST TERM of 53-54... with yet another line below that with 90 + 4 days absent for the SPRING term for a total comined year of 184 school days.
According the the NYC school records LEE OSWALD attended PS44 from 9/14/53 until 1/8/54.
Nice trick!
JA said someone was arguing that the days listed under "Re Ad" on the Beauregard JHS records really meant number of total school days in the semester/year, not the number of days a kid was present.
Doesn't make sense, though, if you look at the "Re Ad" total for the 1954-55 school year, which is 168, two days less than the minimum 170 day school year mandated by Louisiana law.
I've altered the Early Years write-up on the website a bit, highlighting just the 53-54 fall semester lines on the PS 44 and Beauregard records hoping to make this conflict clearer.
Jim
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Cliff Varnell - 25-09-2013
Phil Dragoo Wrote:If a tree falls in the Northwoods does the Mockingbird hear it?
Dayam! Just to pick one..whew!
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - David Josephs - 25-09-2013
Jim Hargrove Wrote:David Josephs Wrote:Final note... the Beauregard JHS record shows for the 54-55 school year - 9th grade - 12 absences and 168 days "Re Ad" which was defined by Asst Principal HEAD as the # of days the student attends.
Add them together to get the 180 day school year.
Two lines above we have 89 + 1 day absent for the FIRST TERM of 53-54... with yet another line below that with 90 + 4 days absent for the SPRING term for a total comined year of 184 school days.
According the the NYC school records LEE OSWALD attended PS44 from 9/14/53 until 1/8/54.
Nice trick!
JA said someone was arguing that the days listed under "Re Ad" on the Beauregard JHS records really meant number of total school days in the semester/year, not the number of days a kid was present.
Doesn't make sense, though, if you look at the "Re Ad" total for the 1954-55 school year, which is 168, two days less than the minimum 170 day school year mandated by Louisiana law.
I've altered the Early Years write-up on the website a bit, highlighting just the 53-54 fall semester lines on the PS 44 and Beauregard records hoping to make this conflict clearer.
Jim
Jim...
That was me talking to John about that... Asst Principal HEAD says both things in the FBI telling of it. He first says it's the TOTAL number of school days, then he says it's the number Oswald attended.
We have to deal with one of two realities: These records are accurate OR these records were created. If created - which is most likely - then the conflicts betray the forgery... if they are accurate, they illuminate the conflicts with other records that were created (NYC school records).. Either way, some or all of these records which are all COPIES of COPIES with no originals available - were created after the fact. (NOTE: the HSCA handwritting experts spell out how the process of copying and altering is why they cannot make a definitvie conclusion about NON-ORIGINAL examined materials. NONE of these records are original... purposefully.
Why I even argued that the 89+1 days for the FALL term does not look correct is the GRADE CARDS related to those two classes.. There are a number of things wrong about these cards that suggest they were created via copying after the fact...
1) Room 303 as a homeroom was only for 9th graders.. that these 8th grade cards also show 303 suggests they were created after the fact. (here are all the cards for BJHS: CE1413 http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0419b.htm
2) in the SPRING TERM we have 3 term grades that represent the entire semester. in the FALL TERM we only have the one TERM REPORT... While this still suggests that OSWALD attended prior to January 13, 1954 I do not see it indicative of 89 days of attendance for those 2 classes...
3) The grade cards do not match the attendance info. Science has 1 while PE has 2 absences.. (you will also notice that CE1413 shows the 54-55 grades yet shows a range of 5-9 days absent... NONE of the grade cards show 12 days absent... (see below)
4) Also shown in the image below is that the grades from General Math also do not match the permenant record
5) From 1/13/54 to 6/4/54 is 90 days as shown on the BJHS record.. yet for OSWALD to attend 89 days IN THE FALL he must start on September 1, 1953 which I believe was about 2 weeks prior to the actual start... Labor Day that year was Sept 7. In NY, PS44 started 9/14/53 are there are indeed 69 days attended thru 1/4 when we ASSUME Oswlad stopped going to PS44 and left for NOLA and MO's sister Lillian's. (Note: MO had no car.. HOW they got from NY to NOLA - with a possible side trip to Ft Worth - is unknown) The conflicting school records that appears copied from form to form - which was supposed to be a single form to follow the child thru NYC schools - is at the bottom.
6) As JA mentions, there is no PS 44 - BYRON JHS (Oswald will also list Ridglea West JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL & Arlington HS on forms (Ridglea was his elementary school) which makes finding previous records very difficult)
The summer of 1953 remains one of the most intriguing and under-documented period on Oswald's young life. The maid, Louise Robertson, tells us the OSwalds moved in the summer of 1953, Robert tells us he visits the Oswalds that summer and takes the famous Zoo photo while denying he was there in Nov 1952 (John Pic tells a different story)... Then there is the North Dakota testimony, the belief by MO's sister Lillian that they first went to Ft Worth
Mr. JENNER - Do you recall whether she ever lived in Dallas?
Mrs. MURRET - I never knew she lived in Dallas.
Mr. JENNER - Is the town of Benbrook, Tex., familiar to you?
Mrs. MURRET - No; you see, I hadn't heard. from her. You see, she went from New York to Texas. That was about 2 years later, I think. I just don't know that I remember her saying that she bought some property some place in Texas, and she couldn't keep it up, and she probably mortgaged it to this man on a rental basis, or something like that, and they had some trouble with that; I don't know. Don't you get tired listening to this merry-go-round?
Mr. JENNER - Mrs. Murret, lawyers don't get tired.
the address at San Saba is in BENBROOK - the only house owned by a MO there bought in 1947 and sold officially in 1951... 7408 Ewing was bought in Sept 1948 and sold to one couple while a different name is recorded on the deed in August 1952, just before they go to NY
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John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - David Josephs - 25-09-2013
Mr. JENNER - Give me your impression of Marguerite Oswald.
Mr. EVANS - Marguerite?
Mr. JENNER - Yes.
Mr. EVANS - I think she's a fine woman, myself, a fine woman; intelligent, very soft spoken - a beautiful woman, with black hair streaked with a little gray, but when you saw her on television since this thing happened, she really looked awful; nothing at all like she used to look. She has really aged. She looked like a charwoman, compared to what she used to look like. She used to be a fashion plate. She dressed beautifully, but when we saw her on television just recently, after all this happened, she looked awful. There's no way to describe it, the change that has come over her. You wouldn't have recognized her if they hadn't told you who she was; she looked that different. Where her hair used to be black, now it's entirely gray, and she really looks Old
Mr. JENNER - Well, she's 57, I believe.
Mr. EVANS - That's right; she's the same age as my wife, but she looks about 70 now.
The conspiracy is in the details... when person after person tells us how different these people are from what they remembered... AND the records reflect the same peculiarness...
At some point "coincidence" crosses the line... and we are WAY over that line
DJ
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Phil Dragoo - 25-09-2013
David
You sum up the unweaving of the false tapestry:
The conspiracy is in the details... when person after person tells us how different these people are from what they remembered... AND the records reflect the same peculiarness...
At some point "coincidence" crosses the line... and we are WAY over that line
You have demonstrated Beauregard Civics instructor Ada Clark and its Science instructor S. Busch have the same handwriting
judging by the form overall with particular attention to the signature line
The cover-up has had to be carefully taught and its students have tired and erred
It is excellent that John Armstrong, Jim Hargrove, and David Josephs, along with the John Newman CIA monastic illumination,
have continued to
pick up every
stitch
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Jim Hargrove - 25-09-2013
David Josephs Wrote:Jim...
That was me talking to John about that... Asst Principal HEAD says both things in the FBI telling of it. He first says it's the TOTAL number of school days, then he says it's the number Oswald attended.
Very true, but if we're to believe anything about these reports, only the second description is possible since the total days (Re Ad) for 1954-55 are less than the required number of school days for the state of LA.
David Josephs Wrote:We have to deal with one of two realities: These records are accurate OR these records were created. If created - which is most likely - then the conflicts betray the forgery... if they are accurate, they illuminate the conflicts with other records that were created (NYC school records).. Either way, some or all of these records which are all COPIES of COPIES with no originals available - were created after the fact. (NOTE: the HSCA handwritting experts spell out how the process of copying and altering is why they cannot make a definitvie conclusion about NON-ORIGINAL examined materials. NONE of these records are original... purposefully.
The records HAD to be forged, or at least altered, if it is correct that the FBI was trying to merge two kids into one. What's odd, though, is that they didn't do a more logical job. If you were going to create school attendance and grade records out of thin air, wouldn't you get yourself a school calendar and make something that makes sense? And would it be too much to make the individual and cumulative records match, reasonably closely?
David Josephs Wrote:Why I even argued that the 89+1 days for the FALL term does not look correct is the GRADE CARDS related to those two classes.. There are a number of things wrong about these cards that suggest they were created via copying after the fact...
1) Room 303 as a homeroom was only for 9th graders.. that these 8th grade cards also show 303 suggests they were created after the fact. (here are all the cards for BJHS: CE1413 http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0419b.htm
2) in the SPRING TERM we have 3 term grades that represent the entire semester. in the FALL TERM we only have the one TERM REPORT... While this still suggests that OSWALD attended prior to January 13, 1954 I do not see it indicative of 89 days of attendance for those 2 classes...
3) The grade cards do not match the attendance info. Science has 1 while PE has 2 absences.. (you will also notice that CE1413 shows the 54-55 grades yet shows a range of 5-9 days absent... NONE of the grade cards show 12 days absent... (see below)
4) Also shown in the image below is that the grades from General Math also do not match the permenant record
5) From 1/13/54 to 6/4/54 is 90 days as shown on the BJHS record.. yet for OSWALD to attend 89 days IN THE FALL he must start on September 1, 1953 which I believe was about 2 weeks prior to the actual start... Labor Day that year was Sept 7. In NY, PS44 started 9/14/53 are there are indeed 69 days attended thru 1/4 when we ASSUME Oswlad stopped going to PS44 and left for NOLA and MO's sister Lillian's. (Note: MO had no car.. HOW they got from NY to NOLA - with a possible side trip to Ft Worth - is unknown) The conflicting school records that appears copied from form to form - which was supposed to be a single form to follow the child thru NYC schools - is at the bottom.
6) As JA mentions, there is no PS 44 - BYRON JHS (Oswald will also list Ridglea West JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL & Arlington HS on forms (Ridglea was his elementary school) which makes finding previous records very difficult)
Some of these problems may or may not be as contradictory as they seem. I taught jr. high school for two years before I entered the publishing biz, and there is a lot of near chaos in some of these situations. For example, attendance records for any classes other than home rooms are notoriously inaccurate. Teachers not in home rooms often don't know all the kids by name, giving the opportunity for all sorts of student mischief, class cutting, substitutions (sheesh!) etc. Kids are often counted when they're not there and sometimes even missed when they are. Generally, attendance records are posted by home room records and supplemented by the office for tardies, half-day absences, illness, etc.
By the same token, setting up floor-by-floor grade levels is fine until the numbers of needed classrooms don't add up to the available spaces and suddenly a change is needed, though I see no indication whatsoever that something like that happened in this case. I wouldn't bet the NYC school calendars match others from middle America, either. Here in the Midwest, many public schools start before Labor Day, some in mid-August. Don't know about New Orleans, though.
David Josephs Wrote:The summer of 1953 remains one of the most intriguing and under-documented period on Oswald's young life. The maid, Louise Robertson, tells us the OSwalds moved in the summer of 1953, Robert tells us he visits the Oswalds that summer and takes the famous Zoo photo while denying he was there in Nov 1952 (John Pic tells a different story)... Then there is the North Dakota testimony, the belief by MO's sister Lillian that they first went to Ft Worth
John has become even more skeptical about Ms. Robertson, though he questioned in the book how HARVEY's "mother," always seeming to live hand to mouth, could have afforded a maid. Robert probably believed he was doing his patriotic duty when he testified, but he made some obvious slip-ups; Stripling School, for example. "What tangled lives we lead when at first we do deceive," eh?
Jim
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Jim Hargrove - 25-09-2013
Phil Dragoo Wrote:David
....
You have demonstrated Beauregard Civics instructor Ada Clark and its Science instructor S. Busch have the same handwriting
....
Hi, Phil,
I'm getting eye strain trying to see the above. Can you give me a hint where to look in the records David posted?
Jim
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - David Josephs - 26-09-2013
Jim Hargrove Wrote:Phil Dragoo Wrote:David
....
You have demonstrated Beauregard Civics instructor Ada Clark and its Science instructor S. Busch have the same handwriting
....
Hi, Phil,
I'm getting eye strain trying to see the above. Can you give me a hint where to look in the records David posted?
Jim
Give me a minute Jim... I will do an overlay and show you and everyone else... Phil has a GREAT eye...
DJ
Not only is the writing VERY similar... the names of the Science teacher at the top of the card is not the same as the bottom (R. Beaver and S. Bush - hey... did someone pull a pretty suggestive joke at our expense here... or was that vernacular more recent ?? )
Jim... there was what looks like only 5 absences not 12... someone must have known the 180 day rule... Please address the FACT only one term report appears for both part-time classes... STILL suggests he was there during that term.. only means to me that possibly HARVEY did not enter BJHS until much later in the year (Nov/Dec) and may have spent time in Ft Worth or elsewhere those months... sorry, I am still not convinced the 179 plus 5 absences is an accurate reflection of ANY child's time there, let alone indicative of a child having been there the entire FALL TERM... but only a part of it.
I am inclined to first believe the "89" is part of the forgery and designed to have it add to 180 again and NOT the # of days HARVEY attended BJHS in the FALL... but he DID attend while he was supposedly at PS44 in NYC....
and that's the important point.
DJ
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