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+--- Thread: John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee (/thread-11170.html)
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - David Josephs - 01-10-2013
Jim Hargrove Wrote:David Josephs Wrote:I added this statement to my last post to you - Just because I may find something lacking in a single piece of the PUZZLE, does not mean I can no longer see what the puzzle picture is... H&L is proven in hundreds of ways...That a few items in this proof may not be as strong or conclusive as first offered is not a condemnation of the conclusion... I simply perfer to seperate SOLID evidence from conjuecture.... and HARVEY attending BJHS in the FALL 1953 has not yet been proven to my standard... In fact there is evidence that Ft. Worth could have been a stop before NOLA... for how long, we do not knowDJ
Fair enough, David. Rightly or wrongly, I believe I've been rhetorically beaten up by professionals a few times over the years, and I may be a bit too sensitive to criticism, even the mildest and most constructive sort. If you come up with anything concrete indicating John is wrong about the fall '53 semester at PS 44 and Beauregard JHS, I'll try to keep an open mind.JIm
Jim -
Much Appreciated. Now, FALL 1953 is a complete mystery.
- Whether the ZOO photo was indeed August 1953
- Louise Robertson "maid" in the summer of 1953 told FBI of Jacobi Hospital (yet Jacobi not completed until Nov 1955)
- HARVEY is seen and remembered in North Dakota
- the first line of the FORGED 53-54 BJHS record has 2 classes each with a single and LAST TERM REPORT before the final grade suggesting only part time attendance
- HEAD says one thing and says the other... we cannot assume one or the other is correct just cause it makes our argument stronger
- CE1413 p817 shows the BACK of the BJHS card (supposedly) as it was referred to a number of times - the "incomplete" that is written reflects an "Originally Admitted" date of 9/8/55
and the notation that the transcripts were sent to : "Arlington Heights Senior High / Fort Worth Tex / 9/18/56" so the BJHS record went to EASTON HIGH for the 55-56 school year yet he does not leave according to these records until
OCT 14, 1956.
What we do know is there are FBI FORGED RECORDS of BJHS for Sept 53 thru June 55... while we have HARVEY at STRIPLING living at 2220 THOMAS PLACE, right across the street from the school. He does spend some time at BJHS with Myra in the FALL 1954... that we know FOR SURE... and we must decide what parts of the BJHS record are accurate, if any.
More to come
DJ
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Jim Hargrove - 01-10-2013
OK, David,
If you come up with anything concrete indicating John is wrong about the fall '53 semester at PS 44 and Beauregard JHS, I'll try to keep an open mind.
JIm
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - David Josephs - 01-10-2013
Jim Hargrove Wrote:OK, David,
If you come up with anything concrete indicating John is wrong about the fall '53 semester at PS 44 and Beauregard JHS, I'll try to keep an open mind.
JIm
Jim... I believe I've already done that...
there is no other evidence related to that time period (a BIG clue as to the importance of that time) - all we have are HEAD's conflicting statements, the Cumulative and then the GRADE CARDS that only show one TERM REPORT.
I posted the HEAD statements and here are the GRADE CARDS showing only 1 TERM REPORT for the FALL.... while each of the SPRING CARDS has all three TERM REPORTS filled in.
LOGIC tells us that for a student to attend even a SINGLE CLASS for a FULL TERM they would have 3 full TERM REPORTS... There are indeed 94 days from 1/13/54 to 6/4/54.
We KNOW that LEE was at PS44 starting 9/14/53... 90 days BACK from 1/13 is Sept 1st which is also possible for a start date for the TERM for BJHS.
One wonders though why the two classes would not then have all of the TERM REPORTS filled in for the entire semester.
This only suggests the student arrived LATE IN THE TERM which HARVEY is known for doing.
I made a math error in my counting days back from 1/13/54 - FORWARD to June 4th is 94 days yet BACKWARD from 1/13 for 90 days takes us to AUGUST 18th, NOT Sept 1st.
HARVEY did not start BJHS in mid AUGUST 1953. This to me once again indicates that this student arrived LATE IN THE TERM... and the "Re Ad" numbers are simply plug figures to get us to 180+ days.
Jim - these #'s do not MEAN anything - for if they were supposed to mean the # of days a student attends we have an impossible start date for the 1953 FALL TERM. But there are grades there for some reason...
If we knew more about the actual TERM DATES we could possbily settle it. Concrete enough? Add to this the problem that NONE of the GRADE CARDS shows 12 absences for 54-55 and you have the makings of a cut/paste/copy set of "records".
The real question that remains is where did HARVEY's records go? Judge Kelly give FBI MALONE the OSWALD record from FAMILY COURT - the question is whether these are ALL OF HARVEY's RECORDS from the NYC schools or if they are copies of an original file held by the School District. It appears they are ORIGINAL COURT RECORDS - what that means exactly is unknown... by they are gone.
Finally, I think you'll find there are a number of records related to BJHS and Warren Easton
Moving forward a bit:
If we extend the same attendance dates to 1954-55 we find that from SEPT 1, 1954 to JAN 12, 1955 is only 79 days of school with 94 still in the SPRING.... unless you want to push the start back to the middle of AUGUST.
The 168 days (180 days) leaves us with the same problem... 94 + 79 = 173... (yet 168 plus the 5 absences we see on most 54-55 GRADE CARDS does add up) So either the FALL TERM started much earlier than we think, the SPRING TERM ends weeks after they said... or ???.
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CE1413 has the "INCOMPLETE" notation yet has the wrong year leaving as 10-14-56 rather than 1955.
You will also please note the "Transcript sent to:" at the bottom is ARLINGTON HEIGHTS Senior High... problem being CE1413 p817 has the bottom cut off showing the date 9/18/56
for the sending of the transcripts to Arlington. HARVEY attended ARLINGTON from 9/18/56 until he joins the MARINES in OCTOBER 24 1956
Also notice that the CE1413 version does not have the initials or date of 12/5/63 in the lower right hand corner NOR does the "copy" align with the rest of the page when the upper right box of information is overlaid exactly..
It is not possible to align these "copies" with the CE exhibit .... It APPEARS as if each of htese three areas where combined fromdifferent records (or blanks) and finished afterward...
In CE1413 we have a letter from MO on Oct 7, 1955 explaining that HARVEY will be leaving school and moving to San Diego all the while LEE is working at Tujague's.... H&L is a highly supported theory year after year...
I hope those following this thread are seeing that...
DJ
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John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Jim Hargrove - 01-10-2013
David,
You've obviously worked hard on this, and I'm trying to look at it with an open mind, but I simply can't get beyond Step 1.
None of the additional documents you have shown indicate days of attendance. Only the "Register of Attendance" does, and that shows 89 days of attendance for the fall term of '53-54. Despite the two different statements attributed to Mr. Head by the FBI, only his latter statement makes sense, since the other interpretation would indicate the school was violating state law the 54-55 school year.
If I was in charge of modifying documents to make a child disappear, I'd alter as little as possible--only what was needed--to avoid creating other problems with wholesale changes. And I certainly wouldn't invent a number that suddenly put an entire junior high school in violation of state law referenced in my own report. My bet is that the FBI simply didn't realize the conflict created by the 53-54 fall term attendance records in PS 44 and Beauregard. We are, after all, only left to analyze their mistakes.
You bring up some interesting inconsistencies, but they hardly prove this attendance record is wrong, at least in my opinion. Perhaps we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Jim
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - David Josephs - 02-10-2013
Jim Hargrove Wrote:David,
You've obviously worked hard on this, and I'm trying to look at it with an open mind, but I simply can't get beyond Step 1.
None of the additional documents you have shown indicate days of attendance. Only the "Register of Attendance" does, and that shows 89 days of attendance for the fall term of '53-54. Despite the two different statements attributed to Mr. Head by the FBI, only his latter statement makes sense, since the other interpretation would indicate the school was violating state law the 54-55 school year.
If I was in charge of modifying documents to make a child disappear, I'd alter as little as possible--only what was needed--to avoid creating other problems with wholesale changes. And I certainly wouldn't invent a number that suddenly put an entire junior high school in violation of state law referenced in my own report. My bet is that the FBI simply didn't realize the conflict created by the 53-54 fall term attendance records in PS 44 and Beauregard. We are, after all, only left to analyze their mistakes.
You bring up some interesting inconsistencies, but they hardly prove this attendance record is wrong, at least in my opinion. Perhaps we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Jim
Jim - what you would do is really neither here nor there... we have records from which to deduce a story.... records offered as "evidence"
The FBI tells us there are 127 days of school from March 23, 1953 thru the end of the PS44 term and BEFORE the FALL TERM starting Sept 14, 1953.
THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE
Are you going to question how stupid it was to have FORGED such a poor document or do we take this as proof they were indeed FORGED and the info contained on them is WORTHLESS ??
Now to BJHS... YOU are holding on to one of two sentences an administrator offered as his understanding of the terms... when they are applied to a real school year - as we did with the PS44 records - we also find that the # of days, the GRADE CARDS show that the INFO IS WORTHLESS...
Listen to what you wrote Jim - "We are, after all, only left to analyze their mistakes."
Mistakes made while FORGING OSWALD'S SCHOOL RECORDS... creating a FALSE RECORD...
Do you see how holding on to "90" days in the FALL of 1953 has no meaning at all? What DOES have meaning is the fact that a TERM REPORT was written for the FALL TERM for both classes.
Since the FBI school records tell us LEE leaves around Jan 8, 1954 and starts BJHS on 1/13/54, those grades APPEAR to apply to the FALL term and are not possible given where LEE was until 1/13/54. end of story... until we can find that the SPRING TERM started and ended on a different day than we believe.
We have ZERO NADA NOTHING ZIP on the whereabouts of HARVEY from the time Louise Robertson the maid says they left NYC in the middle of the summer 1953... and AFTER Robert takes the Zoo photo... if this was indeed Summer 1953 during his furlough... until Myra DeRouse tells us HARVEY is in her homeroom class Jan/Feb 1954 and is NOT the kid in the BJHS photo missing a tooth.
Best I can do right now Jim... As JA and I have concluded, we can't KNOw anything from these documents other than they were CREATED/FORGED and that SOME OF THE SOURCE DATA has to be correct for one or the other student...
What that is almost doesn't matter -
ALL that matters is the repeated fact that the documents funneled thru the FBI related to the history of LEE is a combination of LEE and HARVEY with the HARVEY records gone to history.
AS JA asked me rhetorically - why does Hoover send AGENTS to retrieve the 10 year old school records of this man within the first 2 days after the assassination - as if that information, TAKEN IN THE ORIGINAL FORMS, would have any bearing on the evidence required to prove LHO killed Tippit or JFK....
DJ
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Jim Hargrove - 02-10-2013
Since I posted a link a few days ago, John has reworked my original write-up on the Mexico City mini-page to describe more fully the history of each of the four different images of "Lee Harvey Oswald." Definitely worth another look if you just saw my write-up:
[URL="http://harveyandlee.net/4LHO/Mexico%20City.html"]
http://harveyandlee.net/4LHO/Mexico%20City.html[/URL]
http://harveyandlee.net/4LHO/Mexico%20City.html[/URL]
Jim
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - David Josephs - 04-10-2013
We have already shown that the COPIED SCHOOL RECORDS the FBI gave the WC are woefully inaccurate and even APPEAR like they were cut/paste/copied together... They tell a story which cannot be reconciled with real time... while ignoring the realities of where each child was, worked and went to school. Certain records CANNOT BE FORGED without undue awareness... The records of the MARINES is not something that can be easily recreated which is why the DoD had to write a letter - to Blakey - explaining how OSWALD remained in Japan.... even though the records and witnesses state otherwise....
Was an Oswald in Taiwan - it certainly appears so...
---------------
Pricilla Johnson interviewed HARVEY Oswald in Russia...
One of the most glaring bits of evidence supporting H&L is the time HARVEY spent in FORMOSA (Taiwan) while LEE was receiving medical attention for a STD at ATSUKI JAPAN.
The FBI - WCD 13 - quotes Pricilla's statement to the FBI: Which is simply another Brick in the wall of references to OSWALD being in FORMOSA in Sept/Oct 1958... alos included are JA exhibits showing his return from Ping-Tung, his Summary showing he went to Ping Tung and the Medical records showing he was treated in Japan during the same time...
DJ
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John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - David Josephs - 04-10-2013
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10478&relPageId=10
"Collateral investigation....POSTIVIELY placed him (OSWALD) in Dallas... the evening of 11/21/63."
Anyone HAVE or SEEN this "collateral investigation"?
DJ
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John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Jim Hargrove - 05-10-2013
David Josephs Wrote:The FBI - WCD 13 - quotes Pricilla's statement to the FBI: Which is simply another Brick in the wall of references to OSWALD being in FORMOSA in Sept/Oct 1958... alos included are JA exhibits showing his return from Ping-Tung, his Summary showing he went to Ping Tung and the Medical records showing he was treated in Japan during the same time...
DJ
Great find on the PJM statement! Priscilla always seemed so eager to help the government's case against LHO: according to Marina, she basically wrote Marina's book... and even more famously she just happened to be hanging around when the much-needed Mexico City bus ticket was "found." (Jim DiEugenio has a detailed article on her at: http://www.ctka.net/pjm.html.)
No doubt she would be appalled to learn that she has been inadvertently helpful offering evidence for John Armstrong's case. The other example that comes to mind is her published report from the Moscow interview that the Russian-speaking Oswald told her his family moved to North Dakota. (According to John McAdams, Priscilla later claimed she had mis-read her notes and read N.O. as N.D. Pretty good excuse, except JA recalls that her handwritten notes were published in the FBI "Series 2" microfilm from UMI, and that "North Dakota" was spelled out.)
Jim
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - David Josephs - 07-10-2013
Seems to me if the FBI reports that LEE Oswald was in Dallas on thursday night... Don't they need to explain who Wesley drove home thurswday after work and back friday morning... ?? :
hock::and obviously if they are pulling this information from an FBI report of a collateral investigation... SOMEONE sees LEE in Dallas Thursday night... while HARVEY is playing with his kids...
Any assistence in finding this report would be appreciated
DJ
David Josephs Wrote:http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10478&relPageId=10
"Collateral investigation....POSTIVIELY placed him (OSWALD) in Dallas... the evening of 11/21/63."
Anyone HAVE or SEEN this "collateral investigation"?
DJ
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