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+--- Thread: Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile (/thread-3232.html)
Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - James H. Fetzer - 26-03-2010
JUDYTH COMMENTS ON KATHY'S CATCH ON TWO PHOTOGRAPHS
[NOTE: I am going to verify with Judyth that I have this post right.]
WHAT HAPPENED HERE?
KATHY C. MADE SOME GOOD REMARKS ABOUT THE PHOTO TO THE
LEFT OF LEE OSWALD OF NOV. 22 –TAKEN WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER.
I DECIDED TO COPY A MORE PRISTINE PHOTO ON THE INTERNET.
![[Image: 2vl0go3.jpg]](http://i44.tinypic.com/2vl0go3.jpg)
IN FACT, IT IS FROM JACK WHITE’S COLLECTION – A PASTICHE THAT
INCLUDES A COUPLE OF PHOTOS, SOME OF WHICH I DO NOT ACCEPT
AND WANT TO KNOW THEIR TRUE PROVENANCE.
![[Image: 14ln3pj.jpg]](http://i39.tinypic.com/14ln3pj.jpg)
THE PHOTO SHOWN ON THE LEFT IS THE ONE JACK WHITE POSTED AT
THE EDUCATION FORUM.
1) IT HAS BEEN COPIED SO MUCH THAT MANY DETAILS THAT ARE ON
THE PHOTO TO LEFT ARE MISSING. MANY OF THESE DETAILS (WASHED
OUT) WOULD HAVE MATCHED TO THE NOV. 22 PHOTO OF LEE H. OSWALD.
THAT WAS SHOWN NEXT TO IT. THE DETAILS CAN BE SEEN JUST FINE
IN THE MORE PRISTINE PHOTO.
2) THIS PHOTO, OF ‘LEE’ TOO, IS TOO WIDE, AGAIN BY ABOUT 10% --
BUT CURIOUSLY, THIS TIME THE EXTRA WIDTH BEGINS JUST WHERE THE
‘LINE’ IS SHOWN (MUCH MORE CLEARLY, FOR SOME REASON, IN PHOTO
TO THE LEFT)…WHERE THIS LINE, IN FACT, SHOULD HAVE FADED OUT MORE,
AS DID OTHER DETAILS. INSTEAD, THIS LINE IS STRONGER. AND NOT ONE
BUT TWO LINES ARE VISIBLE.
3) THE TRULY DISTURBING THING IS THAT ONLY A SECTION OF THIS PHOTO
HAS BEEN WIDENED — AN AREA EXTENDING APPROXIMATELY AT THE JUNCTION
WHERE EARS ATTACH AT THE TOP OF THE EARS TO THE HEAD, AND JUST BELOW
THE LINE OF THE LOWER LIP, CENTER. THE DISTORTION ENHANCES THE WIDTH
OF THE FACE IN JUST THIS AREA, MAKING ONLY HIS PART OF THE FACE MARKEDLY
WIDER THAN THE ORIGINAL PRISTINE PHOTO.
![[Image: jfx30j.jpg]](http://i39.tinypic.com/jfx30j.jpg)
THE DIFFERENCE CAN BE SEEN BY THE UNAIDED EYE.
THE HUMAN EYE SCANS THIS LENGTH DIFFERENCE AUTOMATICALLY.
A LONGER DISTANCE RADICALLY CHANGES IDENTIFICATION FACTORS
FOR PEOPLE.
4) TAKE A RULER AND SEE FOR YOURSELF. IT’S AMAZING, ACTUALLY.
5) THIS KIND OF DISTORTION COULD NOT BE MADE UNDER A SCANNER,
OR BY PHOTOS REPHOTOGRAPHED TOO MANY TIMES. THE DISORTION IS
ACROSS ONLY A CERTAIN AREA — NOT THE WHOLE PHOTO — WHICH IS A
PHOTOSHOP EFFECT.
THE CHANGES FROM THE PRISTINE PHOTO ARE SO EXTREME THAT THE PHOTO
JACK SUPPLIED SHOULD BE DISCARDED AS HOPELESSLY DISTORTED FOR ID
PURPOSES.
6) I HAVE NOW SEEN THREE INSTANCES OF DISTORTED OR MISREPRESENTED
PHOTOS:
1) THE FEET OF MARGUERITE NOT LINED UP PROPERLY TO ACCOUNT FOR
WEARING HEELS IN ONE PHOTO AND FLOPPY SLIPPERS IN THE OTHER…
![[Image: 1o14bo.jpg]](http://i40.tinypic.com/1o14bo.jpg)
IN ADDITION, A STATEMENT SAYING BOTH WERE TAKEN IN 1947 WAS NOT
CORRECT. THE WOMAN ON THE LEFT ON THE ORIGINAL DUAL PASTICHE WAS
MARGUERITE SHORLY AFTER NOV. 22, 1963.
2) THE NOV. 22 PHOTO OF LEE WAS DISTORTED 10% -- WHICH MADE HIS FACE
LOOK TOO FAT AND THUS DID NOT MATCH THE PHOTO HERE AT UPPER RIGHT.
WHEN CORRECTED, THERE WAS A BETTER MATCH…THEN KATHY POINTED OUT THE
ODDITIES OF THE PHOTO ON THE UPPER LEFT.
3) SURE ENOUGH, SHE WAS RIGHT. THE LINE SHOLD HAVE BEEN FADED OUT.
IT’S ALMOST AS IF SOMEBODY CUT THE PHOTO THERE AND BLEW THAT PART
UP AND THEN CONNECED IT AGAIN, USING PHOTOSHOP OR A LITERAL PRINTOUT
THAT WAS CUT.
THAT MAY NOT BE EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED, BUT SOMETHING HAPPENED TO IT.
THE PHOTO AT THE UPPER LEFT, HERE, HAS BEEN DISORTED IN A VERY PARTICULAR
SECTION. WHEN CORRECTED (BY REMOVING THE EXTRA WIDTH OF THE DISTORTED
SECTION), HOWEVER, IT THEN MATCHES THE PRISTINE PHOTO’S SECTION.
7) PRINT THIS OUT 3 TIMES, CUT OUT THE PHOTOS, REMOVE THE EXTRA LIP AMOUNT
(USE RULER) AND THEN THE FEAURES OF BOTH PHOTOS LINE UP JUST FINE.
8) WHAT HAPPENED TO THE FADED-OUT EDUCATION FORUM PHOTO THAT IT HAS
SIGNIFICANT DISTORTION IN A KEY FACIAL I.D. AREA, FORENSICALLY SPEAKING?
NOW I HAVE RESERVATIONS ABOUT THE PROVENANCE AND HANDLING OF THESE
PHOTOS.
WHERE DID THEY COME FROM?
WHY ARE THEY DIFFERENT FROM EARLIER, CLEARER PHOTOS?
WHO GAVE THEM TO JACK WHITE, OR TO JOHN ARMSTRONG?
JVB
[quote name='Kathleen Collins' post='187871' date='Mar 26 2010, 12:33 AM']
The photo on the left, in my very humble opinion, has been fooled with. The line right under the eyes tells me it's been tampered with. This is a fake picture. I believe the weight on the face is contrived, as is the hair. This is not Lee Oswald, imo.
Kathy C[/quote]
Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - Jack White - 27-03-2010
David Healy Wrote:Jan Klimkowski Wrote:...
How did LHO learn of these mafia "free phones"?
Why would LHO have been given access to mafia "free phones" to make long distance love calls? That's not helping the Mob to make money.
I believe LHO's step father was involved in the mob numbers racket in New Orleans, which was 'somehow' linked to the mob heirarchy in Dallas... FWIW
David...John Pic was an insurance man. Ed Ekdahl was an electrical
engineer. Those were LHO's only step-fathers, and both marriages
were brief. I know of no mafia connections. Perhaps you are thinking
of Dutz Murret, who I think was an uncle. He was "reputed" to have
a connection to Marcello. His daughter Dorothea, if my memory is
correct, was in the CIA, and had contact with LHO in Japan. She would
be LHO's cousin, I think.
Jack
Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - James H. Fetzer - 27-03-2010
Jack,
How can you say--in the same post, no less--that Lee "had no mafia
connections", while acknowledging that he had an uncle who was, as
you put it, "'reputed' to have a connection with [mafia boss] Marcello"?
I appears to me that you are excusing the contradiction because you
do not know any better personally. I take it there are multiple sources
that support the alleged connection between Dutz Murret and Marcello.
Judyth reports that Lee knew Marcello personally. Would you at least
grant that, if the alleged connection between Dutz Murret and Marcello
did exist, then there was "a connection" between Lee and the mafia?
Jim
Jack White Wrote:David Healy Wrote:Jan Klimkowski Wrote:...
How did LHO learn of these mafia "free phones"?
Why would LHO have been given access to mafia "free phones" to make long distance love calls? That's not helping the Mob to make money.
I believe LHO's step father was involved in the mob numbers racket in New Orleans, which was 'somehow' linked to the mob heirarchy in Dallas... FWIW
David...John Pic was an insurance man. Ed Ekdahl was an electrical
engineer. Those were LHO's only step-fathers, and both marriages
were brief. I know of no mafia connections. Perhaps you are thinking
of Dutz Murret, who I think was an uncle. He was "reputed" to have
a connection to Marcello. His daughter Dorothea, if my memory is
correct, was in the CIA, and had contact with LHO in Japan. She would
be LHO's cousin, I think.
Jack
Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - James H. Fetzer - 27-03-2010
JUDYTH COMMENTS ABOUT DAVID LIFTON:
[NOTE: As a point of logic, when there is a conflict between two reports,
they cannot both be true but they could both be false. It appears to be
the case that David Lifton has confounded the date of Oswald's arrival in
New Orleans on April 25th, when his aunt confirms that he was virtually
without appropriate clothing for interviews, and the next day, April 26th,
when Judyth and Lee met before he acquired the nicer clothing he wore
to the interview, where his appearance was described by records which
he (Lifton) appears to have misunderstood, just as he appears to have
confounded the village of Kankun with the city of Cancun, in that case,
no doubt, because they pronounced the same, one in a set of blunders.]
SEE MY COMMENTS BELOW, RE LIFTON....INSIDE HIS MESSAGE BELOW...THE
ATTACHED SHOWS WHAT CLOTHING LEE HAD WITH HIM. HIS AUNT WAS
SPECIFIC ABOUT THE FACT THAT LEE DID NOT HAVE A SUIT AND THAT SHE
DID NOT KNOW HOW HE COULD LOOK PRESENTABLE JOB HUNTING WITHOUT
ONE. THE DESCRIPTION IS IMMEDIATELY AFTER LEE HAD ARRIVED IN NEW
ORLEANS, WHICH WAS APRIL 25 -- NOT APRIL 26, AS LIFTON ERRONEOUSLY
REPORTS.
![[Image: 280jbf5.jpg]](http://i41.tinypic.com/280jbf5.jpg)
I HAVE ALREADY STATED TO THIS FORUM THAT I HAD READ NORMAN MAILER'S
DISGUSTING BOOK, AND MARINA AND LEE, WHICH ARE SKEWED ACCOUNTS,
AS MY SOLE EXPOSURE BEFORE JAN. 2000, WHEN CONWAY GAVE ME A LANCER
NEWSLETTER.
I DID NOT KNOW LANCER EVEN EXISTED UNTIL SHE TOLD ME ABOUT IT. SHE
(CONWAY) SHOULD BE HONEST ENOUGH TO ADMIT THAT IF SHE WERE ASKED.
I HAD BEEN, BY THEN, BEEN TALKING TO "60 MINUTES" INVESTIGATORS FOR A
TOTAL OF OVER ONE HUNDRED HOURS OF GRILLING, AS NONE OF YOU HAVE
EVER EXPERIENCED. AFTER LIFTON QUESTIONED ME QUITE A BIT ABOUT HOW
"60 MINUTES" WAS TREATING ME AND RATHER SCORNED HE FACT THAT I HAD
FLOWN THERE "CABIN CLASS", "60 MINUTES" NEXT FLEW ME IN TO NEW YORK
FIRST CLASS. WISH I'D TOLD THEM MORE ABOUT LIFTON, BUT I NEVER HEARD
FROM LIFTON AGAIN.
AFTER A SINGLE CONVERSATION, HE TOLD McADAMS I WAS A 'FANTASIST' AND
THAT I HAD CLAIMED I KNEW--AND LEE KNEW--LEE'S HANDLER'S REAL NAME.
AS I SHOWED EVERYONE HERE RECENTLY, LIFTON'S CLAIM WAS BASED ON HIS
JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS.
I CLEARLY SHOWED THAT THE WAY HE HAD WORDED THE QUESTIONS AND HIS
CONCLUSIONS WERE ABSOLUTELY FAULTY AND MISLEADING.
I DO HOPE THAT DIALOGUE AND MY REPLY WILL BE POSTED AGAIN.
I NOTICE THAT MR. LIFTON DOES NOT BRING UP THIS OBJECTION OF HIS NOW.
HE GOES ON TO A BRAND NEW OBJECTION THAT IS JUST AS SPECIOUS.
IT WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE TO SEE A LITTLE GRACIOUSNESS AND MAYBE HIS
SAYING HE HAD BEEN WRONG. INSTEAD, HE PREFERS TO ATTACK AGAIN.
HERE ARE SOME ELEMENTARY POINTS THAT DAVID LIFTON DOES NOT UNDERSTAND:
1) LEE OSWALD ARRIVED ON APRIL 25, NOT APRIL 26--LIFTON HAS THE WRONG DATE.
THIS IS HOW HE BEGINS HIS 'INVESTIGATION.'
2) LEE'S AUNT MURRET SAW LEE'S CLOTHING SOON AFTER HE HAD MOVED TO NEW
ORLEANS. THE TIME LINE USED BY MCADAMS, ETC., SAYS LEE MOVED IN WITH HIS AUNT
AND UNCLE ON APRIL 25. THIS IS IN ERROR. IN HER TESTIMONY AND ELSEWHERE,
YOU FIND THAT LEE MOVED IN WITH THEM A FEW DAYS LATER. I GOT GRLLED ON
THAT BY "60 MINUTES" AND THEY LOOKED AND FOUND LEE HAD BEEN AT THE YMCA
FOR SEVERAL DAYS FIRST, JUST AS I SAID. LEE WAS AT THE YMCA AND I WAS AT
THE YWCA, SO THIS WAS EASY FOR ME TO REMEMBER AND HAS NOTHING AT ALL
TO DO WITH "INSERTING" MYSELF INTO THE RECORD.
THE WAY THESE PEOPLE GET YOU:
A) IF IT IS IN THE RECORD, THEN YOU INSERTED YOURSELF
B) IF IT IS NOT IN THE RECORD, YOU ARE LYING
GO AHEAD AND DESTROY THE WITNESS, AND DO NOT LET ME EVER GET A CHANCE
TO PRESENT MORE INFORMATION TO YOU, BUT BEFORE YOU PULL THE TRIGGER,
READ AGAIN LIFTON'S FAULTY ANALYSIS OF WHAT HE THOUGHT I SAID ABOUT
"KNOWING HE NAME" OF LEE'S HANDLER -- DESPITE MY STATEMENTS AT ALL TIMES
TO THE CONTRARY OF WHAT HE REPORTED.
THIS MAN SPOKE TO ME JUST ONE TIME -- 20% OF IT WAS ABOUT "60 MINUTES"
INVESTIGATION, ETC -- AND HE HAS NOT CONTACTED ME AGAIN FOR OVER A
DECADE. HE DID, HOWEVER, LINK MY NAME WITH OSAMA BIN LADEN AFTER 9/11,
WHICH CAUSED ME TO BE HOUNDED BY CRAZY CREEPS, AND MY PHONE TAPPED.
HE SAID IT WAS JUST A JOKE.
I HAD TO LIVE WIH THE RESULTS.
HE ALSO POSTED OTHER 'JOKES.'
SCROLL DOWN TO SEE MY FURTHER RESPONSE BELOW, IN LIFTON'S MATERIAL,
AS POSTED.
JVB
JUDYTH RESPONDS TO DAVID LIFTON'S POST:
David Lifton
Today, 05:11 AM
Post #647
Experienced Member
Group: Members
Posts: 78
Joined: 24-May 06
Member No.: 4784
Jack,
When I first spoke with Judyth in March, 2000,
=="FIRST SPOKE" ? THIS WAS THE ONLY TIME LIFTON EVER 'SPOKE' WITH ME.
IT WAS A TELEPHONE CONVERSATION THAT HE ILLEGALLY TAPED, A FELONY IN
CALIFORNIA, SINCE HE DID NOT TELL ME. HE DESCRIBED THE CONVERSATION
TO JOHN McADAMS, TO WHOM HE SENT MATERIAL ABOUT ME ALL THE TIME --
AT VARYING TIME LENGTHS-- 30 MINUTES, 2 HOURS, I 1/2 HOURS -- WHICH
CLUED MARTIN SHACKELFORD WHO ALSO POSTED THERE THAT HE HAD TAPED IT.
WORSE, IT ALSO CLUED US THAT IF HE DESCRIBED IT WITH DIFFERENT LENGTHS,
DID HE HAVE HREE DIFFERENT VERSIONS? DID THAT MEAN HE COULD EDIT IT TO
SAY ALMOST ANYTHING HE LIKED, SINCE HE MENTIONED DIFFERENT DURATIONS?
HE EXHIBITED HOSTILITY AND SCORN IMMEDIATELY AND NEVER CONTACTED ME
AGAIN. WAS THIS BECAUSE HIS BIOGRAPHY DID NOT MENTION ME? I AGREED
HE COULD CALL BECAUSE I WANTED HIS BOOK TO BE THE BEST ONE POSSIBLE,
AS I WAS TOLD BY CONWAY THAT HE HAD WORKED HARD ON LEE'S BIOGRAPHY.
SHACKELFORD CONFRONTED HIM ABOUT THE ILLEGAL TAPING AND MR. LIFTON
ADMITTED IT. BY THAT TIME MR. LIFTON HAD PUT OUT A BIG STORY THAT LEE
AND I KNEW LEE'S HANDLER'S REAL NAME.
I HAVE ALREADY REFUTED THAT ON THIS FORUM.
HE JUMPED TO CONCLUSIONS BECAUSE HE HAD NO RESPECT FOR ME, BASED ON
HIS CERTAINTY FROM THE BEGINNING THAT HE COULD NOT BE WRONG.
TODAY, HE IS JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS AGAIN.
I HAVE ALWAYS AND UNDEVIATINGLY STATED THAT LEE WAS 'SO CLEAN CUT" AND
"LOOKED SO NICE" THAT I ACCEPTED HIS OFFER TO WALK ME BACK TO THE "Y."
April 24-29, 1963 (Wednesday - Monday) - Oswald's whereabouts from Wednesday
afternoon until Monday are unknown except for Friday's appearance at the New Orleans
office of the Louisiana Employment Commission. (WC Vol 8, p. 135)
WHAT MR. LIFTON FAILED TO MENTION WAS THE TIME. NOR DID HE KNOW A THING
ABOUT LEE OSWALD'S SCHEDULE THAT DAY.
MY EARLIEST WRITING MENTIONS THAT AFTER MEETING LEE...WE HAD SAID GOODBYE
AND I WENT UPSTAIRS TO MY ROOM, SHARED WITH FOUR OTHER GIRLS, AT THE 'Y':
."..I went upstairs to lie down on my ugly little bed for awhile -- and to read Robert’s
two letters again. Later that day, I took a bus to Ochsner’s Clinic and filled out application
papers for my summer internship, writing in the “Y” as housing choice. The Clinic was
practically in the middle of nowhere: the last thing I wanted was a room at Brent House,
on Ochsner’s campus, with nothing but bland, expensive hospital food to eat. I’d eaten
way too much of that. The ‘Y’ was close to good, cheap restaurants -– plus movie
theatres, universities, and libraries.
There was other entertainment, too: that night, one of my stripper friends took me to
her club to watch her act. I got to go in the back to help with her hair, her costume, and
her make-up. She was part of a three-girl dance routine most of the night. From the side
door, I also got to watch as much of her solo act as I could bear."
APPARENTLY MR. LIFTON BELIEVES THAT LEE HAD SPENT ALL DAY AT THE EMPLOYMENT
AGENCY.
THE TRUE TIMELINE:
1) I AM WORKING A ROYAL CASTLE FROM 6:00-8:00 AM AND I AM AT THE POST OFFICE
BY 8:30.
2) APPROX. 8:30-8:45 I MET LEE OSWALD, WHO WAS DRESSED NEAT AND CLEAN, NOT
IN GRUBBY CLOTHES AT ALL--
3) HE WALKED ME TO THE "Y" -- HE SAID HE WAS LIVING AT THE "Y" FOR NOW BUT LATER
WOULD BE MOVING TO HIS UNCLE'S HOUSE...HE SAID HE HAD TO BORROW A WHITE SHIRT,
SAID NOTHING ABOUT A SUIT, BECAUSE HE HAD TO GO JOB-HUNTING.
4) AT NO LATER THAN 10:00 AM, WE FINISHED TALKING AND I WENT INSIDE THE "Y" TO
GET SOME REST.
THEN I REPORT THAT I WENT TO OCHSNER'S TO FILL IN APPLICATION PAPERS. I EVEN
REPORT ON WHAT HAPPENED THAT NIGHT.
DURING THAT SAME TIME PERIOD, LEE OSWALD HAD PLENTY OF TIME TO BORROW A SUIT,
ETC. HOW DO WE KNOW HE HAD TO BORROW ONE? I ATTACHED HIS AUNT'S TESTIMONY.
==NOTE: BY THE WAY, COMMON LOGIC TELLS YOU THAT LEE OSWALD WOULD NOT HAVE
STARTED JOB HUNTING THE SAME DAY HE ARRIVED IN NEW ORLEANS, APPEARING CRISP
AND NEAT IN A SUIT AFTER HIS LONG BUS RIDE FROM DALLAS.
I had the sense that she had carefully "studied the books" --i.e., the Warren Report, plus
Mailer, McMillan, perhaps the Ferrell chronologies, etc.--and was methodically "inserting
herself" into the record, wherever she could.
==I BELIEVE MR. LIFTON HAD THE SENSE THAT HIS BOOK WAS RUINED AND HE DECIDED I
COULD NOT POSSIBLY BE A BONA FIDE WITNESS AFTER ALL THAT TIME, SO HE DECIDED TO
DEEP-SIX ME RATHER THAN HAVE TO DELAY HIS BOOK. BUT I DID NOT GO AWAY. HE TRIED
HARD TO RUIN MY REPUTATION, AND McADAMS & CO PUBLISHED WHATEVER HE TOLD THEM.==
HE WAS WELL-ARMED WITH HIS TAPE RECORDER FOR HIS ONE AND ONLY CALL. THIS CALL
WAS MADE BEFORE MARCH, ACCORDING TO THE FACT THAT IN THE EMAIL BELOW,
I MENTION SOME TME HAS GONE BY.
ON MARCH 18, 2000, I WROTE THIS TO xxxxxxxxx: [NAME TO BE GIVEN TO DR. FETZER]
Well, all I'd like to know...I would like to know his name.
I have to be careful. You mentioned David Lifton -- He talked to me for an hour, would not
ask me any questions, and I know you respect him, but he jumped to conclusions when I
said Lee knew the real name of his handler. (Phillips, also Bender/Droller). What he did not
understand, and did not take the time to inquire about, was that we searched diligently to
find out these names. We were ale to put two and two together by the 20th -- rather late,
I would say, in the game -- as to the positions and goals of some of these people. Lifton
simply told an associate I'd made a "fatal error."
My "fatal error" was believing that he would keep the information to himself, which he did
not, and that he would ask me if something bothered him. No, I had to find out second-
hand. There are several "outrageous" elements to what I have to say, but when all the
details are known, they make sense. For example, we first learned that Phillips was
involved when he showed up at Reily's. I saw Boatner's secretary and Bill [Monaghan]
talking together about "Phillips". I just heard it once, that's all I needed. The rest we
we figured out from his meeting in Ft. Worth, and then the disaster in Mexico City.
Believe me, if you knew the time constraints on the materials Lee had couriered there,
you would understand his real desperation. It was actually Hurricane Flora that ruined
everything -- they said -- an act of God forgotten in history, unless, like Lee and me,
so many lives had not depended on Castro's medical team in place around him--instead,
they were sent all over the island, and our big chance for getting penetration of these
materials into Cuba were delayed for too long.
I am pleased that you still have enough heart left in you to respond. That gives me
some hope that at least we can be friends. I do trust you--call it a gut instinct. I
sensed your anger and frustration.
All my friends are dead except six people--fortunately, two of these are on tape, one
on film. One is significant and known, has been out of sight for years. We, the women,
some of us, you see, have survived.
Anyway, if you will tell me who this person is, and if they are not prone to judge without
hearing me out, that is essential. It takes about twelve hours to explain all the details.
It take six hours to explain enough so you don't jump to conclusions. Liftton gave me
an hour, then only wanted to know when the book was coming out. It was a real burn
for me.
I mention this, since you mentioned Lifton, who then talked to Chapman. What a mess
-- that's the main reason I'm seeking a fair hearing, to balance this. I have half a dozen
persons, some surely known to you, who have thoroughly investigated -- and seen --
the information.
I am very pleased, again, that you've had enough heart to respond. Don't give up. I
am not a half-baked fool. The only stupid thing I've done, since back then, is to trust
Mr. Lifton.
Yours,
JV
"xxxxxxxxx" wrote back to me: [Agaijn, I will supply the name to Dr. Fetzer]
Dear Judyth,
What can I say?
It wasn't so much that "it got to me." I was just tired of reading the same book over and
over again -- different titles, different authors, same dead-ends. Beating one's head
against the wall repeatedly may be less lethal than lifting it up and getting it blown off,
but it hurts nevertheless.
For what it's worth, I hope your story does get to someone who can do the appropriate
checks and give it all the attention it deserves. (Yes, I worded that carefully, as I've seen
scams before.) Would you mind if I passed your e-mails to me along to a researcher I
know (and trust) in this area? I won't do so without your permission. He hasn't written a
book himself, but I know he has been a researcher for others' books, and he is highly
regarded as an archivist in the case.
Let me know one way or another. If you say yes, I cannot guarantee he will contact you.
It's just the best I can do.
xxxxxxxxx
10:30 PM 3/18/00 -0600
==NOW I (JUDYTH) WILL CONTINUE WITH LIFTON'S STATEMENT==
Because she's very smart, and had assimilated so much data, the net result was to
project a sense of verisimilitude. Many buy into the resultant "story"; I did not.
==Again, if I'm intelligent, then I am a fraud. If I am stupid, then I could not have done
done the things that I had told him about. HE LEAVES NO ROOM FOR A REAL WITNESS.==
In that March, 2000 conversation, Judyth went through her narrative about how she
met Oswald at the post office, on day he arrived in New Orleans, which was 4/26/63.
[ERROR, Mr. Lifton] And in connection with that, Judyth told me how he was dressed
-- as an ordinary worker. Grubby work clothes, etc.
==I said he was clean-cut and looked so nice and neat that I allowed him to walk me
home. He wore a very neat, clean khaki shirt that later was damaged when he made
the training film. (We later used it and his equally worn but clean pants for a dog that
had newborn puppies).==
However, I had recently been studying the records and had assembled a New Orleans
chronology; [which was already in error beginning with day of arrival!] so I was in fact
aware of a contemporaneous New Orleans record stating how he was dressed that day.
As it turns out, on that day (April 26, 1963, the day Oswald went to the Louisiana
employment agency to seek work) the interviewer (one John Rachal, as noted in the
Warren Report) happened to make a record of how Oswald was dressed. He was in a
suit, dress shirt, and tie.
Being aware of this, I questioned Judyth carefully on this very point. Judyth insisted that
Oswald was dressed in grubby clothes and like an ordinary worker.
==Lifton did not look careflly enough into the record. i am a witness, and I know what
happened. Lee told me he was going to borrow a white shirt -- he did not mention a suit
-- perhaps his relaives generosly added the suit? I later saw that Lee had his old dark
suit from the USSR, but for sure, he owned no white shirt or didn't have it with his stuff.
Now, Lee leaves me in the morning and has time to see his aunt and change clothes.==
Here is a logical time line:
April 25 -- Lee arrives around 11:00 AM from Dallas, checks into the YMCA, calls his
relatives, and they invite him over. I know he ate dinner that evening with David Ferrie.
Most of he day, he spends with his aunt and uncle and cousin, talking. It's been ten years,
after all.
A cousin, I think Marilyn, talked to hm the first day he was there. She was upset because
he said he was an atheist, and she yelled at him. I remember that from talking to Lee
about his aunt and uncle. They were Catholics and I had wanted to become a nun and
religion was one of our favorite topics. So to all their chronology questions at "60 Minutes",
without access to a calendar -- and he same for Nigel Turner -- I would go through some
days for all 24 hours.
So on the 25th, I have since learned his aunt is on record noticing he has very few clothes.
Lee actually had some boxes and sea bags, etc. but no nice clothes with him for job hunting.
His aunt wants him to be nicely dressed. I assume she offered to help and told him to come
back next day, she by then would have nice shirt, etc., for Lee.
April 26 -- We meet, Lee mentons he is going to have to leave to pick up a white shirt from
his aunt's. I do not expect to see Lee H. Oswald again (but he sees me again on the 27th).
He had to dress in old clothes because that is all he had with him, according to his own aunt,
in testimony. He could not walk naked to his aunt's house.
His aunt in later testimony says, after a few days, Lee moves in with them. She describes in
detail such things as he only has one pair of shoes. She obviously loved him and cared about
him to notice such details. I only saw the USSR suit -- but Lee dressed at his aunt's place
and then he goes to the employment agency.
BUT LIFTON ONLY SEES LEE DRESSED IN OLD CLOTHES AND THEREFORE CONCLUDES THAT
I MADE IT UP! HE JUMPED TO CONCLUSIONS -- AGAIN! IN FACT, I BELIEVE WE HAVE NOW
STRENGTHENED MY STATEMENT THAT LEE OSWALD WAS WEARING OLD CLOTHES -- BUT
LIFTON THE RESEARCHER, WITH HIS YEARS OF EXPERIENCE, DID NOT CATCH THAT. NOW
I AM SUPPOSED TO HAVE DONE ALL THAT RESEARCH A DECADE AGO, WHEN MY CHILDREN
TESTIFY I NEVER, EVER DID ANY SUCH THING. YET I GET IT RIGHT AND LIFTON WRONG.
LIFTON THOUGHT IT OUT THIS WAY:
LEE OSWALD, THE SAME DAY HE ARRIVED IN TOWN WENT -- NEAT AND TIDY AFTER HIS
LONG RIDE FROM DALLAS -- DRESSED TO KILL, WItH A SUIT ON, AND GOES STRAIGHT TO
THE EMPLOYMENT AGENCY. LIFTON'S ERROR OF A WHOLE DAY TELLS ME THAT HE ISN'T
THINKING AS WELL AS HE USUALLY DOES -- HE IS FACING A REAL WITNESS HE DOES NOT
WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE -- SO HE REASONS TO HIMSELF, "NO, NO! SHE CAN'T BE REAL!
IT RUINS MY BOOK!" THE PROBLEM HE HAS -- WHICH I HAVE ALSO FACED WITH OTHER
RESEARCHERS -- IS WELL DESCRIBED BY COGNITIVE DISSONANCE THEORY.
That, among other things, convinced me that Judyth was not credible.
==WELL, MR. LISTON, ALL YOU HAVE DONE IS CONVINCED ME THAT YOU JUMPED TO YET
ANOTHER FALSE CONCLUSION. AS A WITNESS, I AM IN A SOMEWHAT BETTER POSITION
THAN YOU ARE, BECAUSE I WAS HERE. YOU NEVER EVEN MET LEE OSWALD. HE WAS NO
SAINT, BUT HE WAS NOT THE WRETCH HE WAS MADE OUT TO BE.
From Rachal Deposition Exhibit (Volume 21, p. 283): "will relocate. . Neat. Suit. Tie. Polite."
From Rachal's Warren Commission affidavit: "I recall that Oswald was neatly dressed, with a
suit, dress shirt, and tie, on the occasion of our initial interview." (Rachel Affidavit; 11 WCH 475).
No doubt Judyth, upon learning of this "problem," will now perhaps claim that Oswald changed
his clothes from a "suit, dress shirt, and tie" at the time of his 4/26/63 interview, to the work
clothes he was wearing at the post office. But when and where would he do that?
==YOU HAVE IT BACKWARDS, MR. LIFTON, BECAUSE YOU DID NOT INTERVIEW ME. IF YOU
HAD, YOU WOULD HAVE LEARNED THAT WE MET VERY EARLY ON THE 26TH. WHATEVER ELSE
TRANSPIRED, LEE'S AUNT TELLS US THAT HE HAD NO SUITABLE (GEE, A PUN!) CLOTHES. IT IS
WHOLLY LOGICAL THAT HE COULD NOT WALK NAKED FROM THE "Y"...DO NOT GO BY McADAMS'
WARPED TIMELINE THAT HAS LEE OSWALD MOVING INTO THE MURRET HOME ON THE 25TH.
HIS AUNT MENTIONS IT WAS SEVERAL DAYS LATER. THAT MEANS IT IS ENTIRELY LOGICAL THAT
LEE, SO EARLY IN THE MORNING, HAD YET TO ACQUIRE SUITABLE CLOTHING BUT DID LATER.==
I have no interest in pursuing this matter anymore--
==OF COURSE NOT. YOU ARE NOW ON RECORD AS HAVING MADE ONE TIMELINE ERROR AND
WITH FALSE ASSUMPTIONS, BECAUSE YOU N-E-V--E-R HAD AN INTEREST IN INTERVIEWING ME
EXCEPT TO DISCARD ME. IS THIS THE WAY THAT YOU WANT TO BE REMEMBERED?==
except to note that I had this experience with Judyth in March, 2000, and this issue of how
Oswald was dressed on 4/26/63 occurred in the same conversation in which Judyth talked
about how Oswald was supposedly intending to meet her in Cancun (which did not exist at the time).
[NOTE: One of the hazards of dropping into a thread with a post like this one is that the author
runs the risk of having missed important rebuttals that may have intervened in the meanwhile.
In this case, the "Cancun/Kankun" blunder, where the village of Kankun existed long before the
area was developed and came to be known as "Cancun" was addressed in post #40 on page 3.]
==MR. LIFTON, I ENDED UP WITH A DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY. LEE AND I BOTH WANTED TO
VISIT ARCHEOLOGICAL RUINS AND PRIMITIVE VLLAGES NEARBY, ONE OF WHICH WAS CALLED
KANKUN AND HAD BEEN STUDIED IN THE EARLY 60'S. I POINTED OUT THAT AREA ON A MAP TO
MY AGENT. [THIS HAS BEEN EXPLAINED MANY TIMES, INCLUDING EARLIER ON THIS THREAD.]
NEAR CHICHEN-IZA WAS TO BE OUR FIRST MEETINGPLACE AFTER HE WAS ABLE TO LEAVE DALLAS.
THE ENTIRE AREA WAS CALLED KANKUN, WHICH IS THE ORIGIN OF THE NAME OF THE RESORT CITY.]
LEE SAID WE WOULD GO TO A FINE HOTEL IN THAT AREA, WHICH I WONDERED MIGHT BE A JOKE
-- HE JOKED A LOT -- AS I ENVISIONED THE PRIMITIVE VILLAGE! BUT TO MY SURPRISE, RIGHT AT
CHICHEN-ITZA IS THE MAYALAND HOTEL, WHICH HAS BEEN THERE SINCE THE 1930'S. I VISITED IT
AGAIN FOUR YEARS AGO AND TOLD THE PROPRIETORS ABOUT LEE'S PLAN. IT IS A 5-STAR HOTEL.
![[Image: orl53o.jpg]](http://i47.tinypic.com/orl53o.jpg)
FOR ALMOST A DECADE WE HAVE TOLD YOU AGAIN AND AGAIN--PLATZMAN TOLD YOU, MARTIN
SHACKELFORD TOLD YOU, AND SO DID I -- THAT MY AGENT REWROTE MY BOOK TO BECOME ITS
CO-AUTHOR , HE WROTE IT AS 'CANCUN' AND WE DIDN'T THINK IT MATTERED UNTIL YOU AND
McADAMS & CO. HAD A HISSY-FIT, SAYING THAT WAS AN ANACHRONISM.
WHEN I LEARNED THAT THE SPELLING WAS NOW IMPORTANT TO MY DETRACTORS, I BROUGHT OUT
THE JOURNAL REFERENCE TO KANKUN AS A VILLAGE BY THAT NAME, TO SAY NOTHING THAT THE
WHOLE AREA IS CALLED THAT -- "KANKUN" -- BUT YOU HEARD "CANCUN" AND INSIST I DID NOT
MEAN "KANKUN".
ON THE BASIS OF THIS INFERENCE, YOUR FALSE TIMELINE ABOUT LEE'S SUIT, AND YOUR EQUALLY
FALSE ASSUMPTION THAT LEE AND I SAID WE KNEW WHO HIS HANDLER WAS, WHEN WE SAID NO
SUCH THING, YOU HAVE ESTABLISHED NOTHING EXCEPT YOUR HOSTILITY AND UNFAIRNESS.
"KANKUN, SPELLED WITH K'S, MEANS "BASKET OF SNAKES" FOR THE WHOLE AREA WAS A JUNGLE,
AND SNAKE-INFESTED. NO WONDER IT WAS HARD FOR ME TO BELIEVE THAT LEE REALLY MEANT
WE WOULD GO TO A 'FINE HOTEL' THERE.
MR. LIFTON DOES NOT MENTION THAT HE AND THE NEWSGROUP INSISTED HERE WERE NO "FINE
HOTELS" IN THAT JUNGLE. THIS WAS ONE MORE "PROOF" THAT I "HAD MADE IT UP." WHEN HE
WAS EVENTUALLY FORCED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE EXISTENCE OF MAYALAND HOTEL, HE STILL
DOES NOT ADMIT TO YOU THAT A FINE HOTEL ACTUALLY HAD EXISTED IN THAT AREA IN 1963.
HE ONLY TELLS YOU TO FOCUS ON "CANCUN" AS HE HEARD IT OVER THE PHONE. I WAS CRUCIFIED
OVER THAT ISSUE UNTIL DEB BERT AND OTHERS NOTED THAT MAYALAND WAS BUILT RIGHT THERE
AT CHICHEN-IZA, WHERE I SAID LEE AND I WOULD MEET. LOOK AT A MAP AND POINT YOUR FINGER
THERE -- THE OLD MAPS WE LOOKED AT SAID "KANKUN", THE NEW ONES SAY THE CITY "CANCUN".
==IT MAKES ME WONDER HOW MANY TIMES I MUST DISPROVE FALSE ALLEGATIONS OVER AGAIN==
So in the same conversation in which she referred to a (then) non-existent destination for their
meeting, she also had she also had Oswald's clothing wrong--at least "wrong" insofar as these
Louisiana records attest; as to what he was known to be wearing on that specific day: April 26, 1963.
DSL
==WHICH I SHALL ASSUME I HAVE NOW EXPLAINED IS BASED UPON BLUNDERS ABOUT THE DATE
ON WHICH HE ARRIVED IN NEW ORLEANS, HIS AUNT'S TESTIMONY ABOUT HIS LACK OF SUITABLE
CLOTHING, AND THE DATE ON WHICH WE MET AND HE LATER APPLIED FOR EMPLOYMENT, DRESSED
AS HE HAS BEEN DESCRIBED IN THE "LOUISIANA RECORDS" UPON WHICH MR. LIFTON DEPENDS.==
[NOTE: I will confirm with Judyth that I have presented this complex material as she has intended.]
[quote name='David Lifton' date='Mar 26 2010, 05:11 AM' post='187882']
Jack,
When I first spoke with Judyth in March, 2000, I had the sense that she had carefully "studied the books" --i.e., the Warren Report, plus Mailer, McMillan, perhaps the Ferrell chronologies, etc.--and was methodically "inserting herself" into the record, wherever she could.
Because she's very smart, and had assimilated so much data, the net result was to project a sense of verisimilitude. Many buy into the resultant "story"; I did not.
In that March, 2000 conversation, Judyth went through her narrative about how she met Oswald at the post office, on day he arrived in New Orleans, which was 4/26/63. And in connection with that, Judyth told me how he was dressed--as an ordinary worker. Grubby work clothes, etc.
However, I had recently been studying the records and had assembled a New Orleans chronology; so I was in fact aware of a contemporaneous New Orleans record stating how he was dressed that day.
As it turns out, on that day (April 26, 1963, the day Oswald went to the Louisiana employment agency to seek work) the interviewer (one John Rachal, as noted in the Warren Report) happened to make a record of how Oswald was dressed. He was in a suit, dress shirt, and tie.
Being aware of this, I questioned Judyth carefully on this very point. Judyth insisted that Oswald was dressed in grubby clothes and like an ordinary worker.
That, among other things, convinced me that Judyth was not credible.
From Rachal Deposition Exhibit (Volume 21, p. 283): "will relocate. . Neat. Suit. Tie. Polite." From Rachal's Warren Commission affidavit: "I recall that Oswald was neatly dressed, with a suit, dress shirt, and tie, on the occasion of our initial interview." (Rachel Affidavit; 11 WCH 475).
No doubt Judyth, upon learning of this "problem," will now perhaps claim that Oswald changed his clothes from a "suit, dress shirt, and tie" at the time of his 4/26/63 interview, to the work clothes he was wearing at the post office. But when and where would he do that?
I have no interest in pursuing this matter anymore--except to note that I had this experience with Judyth in March, 2000, and this issue of how Oswald was dressed on 4/26/63 occurred in the same conversation in which Judyth talked about how Oswald was supposedly intending to meet her in Cancun (which did not exist at the time). So in the same conversation in which she referred to a (then) non-existent destination for their meeting, she also had she also had Oswald's clothing wrong--at least "wrong" insofar as these Louisiana records attest;as to what he was known to be wearing on that specific day: April 26, 1963.
DSL
[/quote]
Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - James H. Fetzer - 27-03-2010
A MISSING POST (TO WHICH I REFER ABOVE AND THEREFORE POST NOW)
With appreciation to Jack, here are some responses from Judyth to Jack and to
Junkkareinen. I must say that, when I compare Jack and Barb's remarks with
Judyth's rebuttals, I find her replies convincing and Jack and Barb's far off-base.
And my thanks to Dixie for pointing out to Jack that Judyth has been here before.
Jim...
You are a newcomer to the Judyth experience. Get a complete copy of
her written story, as told to Martin Shackleford and some other LNs, and check
it against documentation. Rich DellaRosa did this. John Armstrong did it. Mary
Ferrell did it. After 9 months or so of study, all found she did not pass the
smell test.
One of the smelliest to me was her claim that Carlos Marcello took an interest
in the two lovers and put Lee and Judyth up at fancy hotels for love trysts. Huh?
===
THIS IS NOT TRUE. IT WAS CLAY SHAW.
===
Her claim that people who saw them together mistook her for Marina when
she looks nothing like Marina.
===
I ATTACH A PHOTO COMPOSITE OF MYSELF AND MARINA...MARINA WAS KEPT INSIDE SO MUCH THAT IN THE BOOK MARINA AND LEE IT SAYS SHE HADN'T EVEN BEEN TO THE FRENCH QUARTER UNTIL SEPT. AT THAT TIME LEE STAYED BEHIND AND SHE AND RUTH PAINE, WITH THEIR KIDS, WENT. WHY DIDN'T HE GO?.
![[Image: hs9ly8.jpg]](http://i50.tinypic.com/hs9ly8.jpg)
LEE AND I HAD BEEN TO THE FRENCH QUARTER MANY TIMES. HE STAYED BEHIND BECAUSE HE DID NOT WANT TO BE SEEN WITH HIS WIFE THERE. MANY PEOPLE THOUGHT WE RESEMBLED EACH OTHER. YOU DECIDE IF IT WAS CLOSE ENOUGH IF YOU'D NEVER MET MARINA OSWALD.
Her claim of being passionate lovers when perhaps they worked at the same
company for only two months.
1) WE WERE BOTH HIRED ON MAY 9, 1963.
2) AFTER 11 WEEKS AND ONE DAY OF WORKING TOGETHER--ALMOST THREE MONTHS--LEE WAS TERMINATED ON FRIDAY, JUNE 19.
A) LEE AND I WORKED AT STANDARD COFFEE COMPANY ONE FULL WEEK BEFORE TRANSFERRING TO REILY. IT'S ON RECORD. AT THAT COMPANY, WHICH HAD ONLY THREE ROOMS, WE WERE TOGETHER FOR HOURS AT A TIME THERE.
B) WE RODE THE SAME BUS TO TOWN EACH MORNING AND MOST EVENINGS RETURNED BY BUS. WHEN HE GOT ON THE BUS IN THE MORNING, THE NEXT STOP WAS MINE. THAT'S HOW CLOSE WE LIVED TO EASCH OTHER.
C) WE MOVED INTO OUR RESPECTIVE APARTMENTS, FOR THE RECORD, THE SAME WEEK.
SEE DR. JOHN WILLIAMS' ANALYSIS IN "JUDYTH AND LEE IN NEW ORLEANS" WHICH EXPLAINS THE MATHEMATICAL PROBABILITIES.
3) I WAS TERMINATED ON AUGUST 9TH, THE DAY LEE WAS ARRESTED. READ THE BOOK.
===
The claim about a honeymoon in Cancun after Lee divorced Marina,
when the resort of Cancun did not exist then.
===
As Martin Shackeford has pointed out again and again, which is constantly ignored, there was a village called "Kankun" (after which Cancun was named). Yes, Lee said we would meet near Cichen-Itza which was in the news that year, and then go to "a fine hotel", which I thought might have been a joe. But it is not. Attached see Mayaland hotel, right at Chichen-Itza, not far from the ancient coastal village of Kankun...Cancun was developed several years later, but it was not I who said that but, as I have explained many times, when I pointed to the area, my literary agent said "Cancun."
CANCUN was placed in the book DEADLY ALLIANCE. As I have explained, the book was stolen from me and has not been edited by me and has errors. Yet I will never be allowed to correct them. Attached is a photo of Mayaland hotel, a fine hotel in operation since the 1930s, right where Lee said we would be meeting.
Note that a hotel is named after the original village KANKUN...thishas been transliterated by these people into Cancun, as did Dr. Platzman and my literary agent. It's easy to mistake.
Results include your SearchWiki notes for "Kankun village":
See a preview of the shared page
1. Hostel Kankun (Cancun, Mexico) - Hostel Reviews - TripAdvisor
Rated 3.5 out of 5.0
1 review
Hostel Kankun, Cancun: See traveler reviews, candid photos, and great deals for Hostel Kankun, ... Mamitas Village, N/A, 0.7 mi 1.1 km, 4 of 5 stars ...
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g150807-d577741-Reviews-Hostel_Kankun-Cancun_Yucatan_Peninsula.html - Cached -
Get her written story and check it out. Have you read her claims, or have
you just formed an opinion based on what she has told you. (You are the
latest in a LONG LIST of researchers she has charmed.)
===
I go with John Armstrong. If he says her stories do not fit the documentation,
then they do not.
===
John Armstrong never, ever investigated me--only a second-hand investigation...
a single telephone call he says I made to him, which I did not.
===
Jack
Rarely do we agree on anything, Jack .... and this is probably the biggest thing. You have given your friend good advice, I hope he heeds it. Judyth is good, very good ... she is very intelligent, and heck, she was majoring in creative writing at UL Lafayette in the late 90s when this all started. It's also interesting that her supprters are nearly all male, the most vociferous ones being those who have met her or spoken to her. She always has an explanation, an excuse for everything. But do some simple fact checking on the basics of her story, and it falls apart.
===
My supporters are male? That's the reason to discredit me? I have female supporters, believe it or not. Pamela McElwain Brown, for example (nearly all of all her posts have been erased)--
I realize she has issues about the limo--there is also Terry Mauro, Lnda Mnor, and others, too.
Anyway, is it a sin to think men are mostly smarter than women and intellectually superior to them? That has always been my impression.
===
Judyth has taken some basics from her life ... being an outstanding science student and working at Reily Coffee and strung them together with events that do not check out to tell a story of a young girl conscipted into the CIA while a high school junior at a science fair in Indiana, . . .
===
THIS IS FROM THE STOLEN BOOK, DEADLY ALLIANCE, OUTLINE THAT DR. PLATZMAN WROTE. IT HAD BEEN A SPECULATION AND WAS MORPHED INTO THAT STATEMENT. IT WAS STOLEN FROM MY COMPUTER IN HOLLAND AND PRESENTED AS A FINISHED DOCUMENT WHEN I HAD NO HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO CORRECT IT. THANK GOD, I ALREADY TOLD YOU ABOUT THIS AND THAT THEY WOULD USE THIS TO DISCREDIT ME.
===
. . . to being molded into a secret cancer researcher funded and looked over all the way to Dave Ferrie's kitchen in Louisiana.
She claimed that as a high school student, some group of former military intel types had a class in Russian created just for her at the local community college so she could learn Russian and be able to read Russian cancer research journals.
Aside from being laughable on its face, I did some research and have documented that the school already HAD a Russian class two years before Judyth claims one was created there for her.
===
BARB IS LYING. SHE KNOWS THAT THE CLASSES SHE IS TALKING ABOUT WAS NOT TAUGHT BY DR. CONCEVITCH, BUT BY A DIFFERENT PROFESSOR. IT WAS A DAY CLASS AND I COULD NOT ATTEND. COL, DOYLE AND RETIRED MILITARY OFFICERS--YES, A COUPLE HAD BEEN INTEL, SO WHAT?--WANTED ME TO LEARN SOME RUSSIAN BECAUSE THERE WERE CANCER REPORTS OUT THERE IN RUSSIAN. IT WAS THE HEIGHT OF THE COLD WAR AND I WAS GOOD AT LANGUAGES. ASK BARB WHY IN THE WORLD A HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT WAS TAKING A RUSSIAN CLASS AT NIGHT? THINK ABOUT THAT.
THEY CONTACTED DR. CONCEVITCH AND HAD A NIGHT CLASS SET UP. BARB DOES NOT MENTION THE NIGHT CLASS AT ALL, WHICH IS INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST OF HER. SHE KNOWS IT EXISTED AND THAT I ATTENDED IT. THE CLASS HAD ABOUT 15 STUDENTS ATTENDING. DR. CONCEVICH WAS NOT FROM BRADENTON, WHERE THE COMMUNITY COLLEGE WAS LOCATED. HE DROVE IN FROM SARASOTA.
ANOTHER THING BARB DOESN'T MENTION IS A LETTER FROM MY MOTHER SHOWING THE CLASS WAS 'FUNDED'--I DID NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT COLLEGE RUSSIAN CLASS WHILE IN HIGH SCHOOL. WHO PAID FOR IT? THE MILITARY GUYS. I HAVE PENTY OF RECORDS TO SHOW THAT A LOT OF RETIRED MILITARY OFFICERS WERE LIVING IN THE AREA WHO WERE COL. DOYLE'S FRIENDS. (HE WAS ALSO RETIRED, BUT TEACHING PHYSICS AT MY HIGH SCHOOL).
ED HASLAM, NIGEL TURNER, WIM DANKBAAR THOROUGHLY RESEARCHED SUCH INFORMATION, AS DID SHACKLEFORD AND PLATZMAN. BUT BARB WOULD PREFER ONLY TO MENTION THE DAY CLASSES AT THE COLLEGE.
===
She claims funding, grants, scholarships from the American Cancer Society, the National Science Foundation, NIH, etc ... researched all, spoke to people, have the annual reports for some of them, have letters from the American Cancer Society .... in not one of these place's records is any record of her ever having received a dime in either cash or equipment as she claims. (She did win a $250 prize toward college tuition in a high school science fair in Florida from the local chapter of the ACS there.) Beyond that, none of them ever heard of her.
===
AS I HAVE PREVIOUSLY EXPLAINED, THE GRANTS WERE AWARDED TO ME THROUGH THE COLLEGE AND UNIVERSITY I ATTENDED AS I WAS AN UNDERGRADUATE. NEWSPAPER ARTICLES MENTION THESE GRANTS AND AWARDS--ACCORDING TO JUNKKARINEN, THE NEWSPAPERS ARE ALL WRONG.
===
She claimed to be the star of a summer program at Roswell Park Cancer Institute, with accolades and grants and scholarships heaped upon her and Dr. Moore of RP then becoming a secret mentor of sorts and overseeing her cancer research as she went off to college, he and Ochsner being somehow involved in her handling. Funny thing is, when I contacted Roswell Park with a question about the summer progrsam (it is still ongoing) I received a letter back from the dean, vice president and member of the board saying that Judyth "never completed the program as she was dismissed." I nearly fell off my chair. Lots of denials (first) then revisions, then excuses followed. But that is the word from RP and it was verified later by a reporter in her hometown in Florida who had been directed to me for some info for a story he was writing for the local paper.
===
THIS IS GETTING TOO MUCH. I AM SENDING A COPY OF THIS TO ED HASLAM. THIS WAS THRASHED OUT BEFORE. I WORKED IN DR. MOORE'S LAB AND WAS ENROLLED IN THE OTHER PROGRAM, BUT MY MAIN DUTIES WERE WITH DR. MOORE. I WAS INVITED PERSONALLY BY HIM TO WORK IN HIS LAB AND WAS ALSO ENROLLED IN THE SUMMER PROGRAM, WHICH I ATTENDED FOR SEMINARS AND PRESENTATIONS AND ALSO TO LEARN HOW TO HANDLE VIRUSES, WITH DR. GRACE.
I COMMITTED A HOUSING VIOLATION AND DR. MIRAND ASSUMED, THINKING BACK AFTER OVER FORTY YEARS, THAT THIS KICKED ME OUT OF THE PROGRAM HE WAS OVERSEEING, BUT HE WAS NOT THE BOSS AND I CONTINUED ON,.
NEWSPAPER ARTICLES SHOW WHEN I CAME BACK HOME, THERE WAS A BIG PARTY AS THE INSTITUTE AND AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY HAD TOLD REPORTERS ALL ABOUT WHAT I HAD MANAGED TO GET DONE.
I WAS THERE TO THE END OF THE SUMMER AND MY ONGOING WORK WAS SUPPORTED BY RPMI AFTERWARDS, AS THE ABSTRACT SHOWS, WHICH USES MELANOMA HAMSTER CELL LINES FROM RPMI--AND I WAS ENGAGED, AS THE ABSTRACT POINTS OUT, ACTIVELY AT THAT TIME IN CONTINUING RESEARCH. HOW COULD I HAVE GOTTEN THE AMSTER MELANOMAS TO WORK WITH IF I HAD BEEN DISMISSED? DID I STEAL THEM?
WHEN FIRST CONTACTED , RPMI SAID I HAD ATTENDED DURING 1962 AS A HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT. THEY WERE OFF BY A WHOLE YEAR...IT WAS 1961 AND I ATTENDED AS A COLLEGE STUDENT. NEXT THING I KNEW, DR. MIRAND SAID I HAD BEEN DISMISSED--A SURPRISE OF COURSE TO ALL, INCLUDING ME. I PRESENTED MY FINAL SEMINAR PAPERS AND HE CONGRATULATED ME.
I WAS VERY UPSET AND WROTE TO HIM, AND HE WROTE BACK (I CAN PROVIDE THE LETTER) SAYING IT WAS HIS UNDERSTANDING THAT I HAD BEEN DISMISSED BUT HAD PERHAPS BEEN KEPT ON IN THE BOSS' LAB. NOT JUST 'PERHAPS'--I WAS. HE ALSO SAID HE WAS STAYING OUT OF THIS.
I KNOW HE WAS UPSET BECAUSE I HAD MOVED FROM THE 'Y' BUT THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH MY LAB WORK, AS THE HOUSING VIOLATION PROBLEM WAS TAKEN CARE OF BY DR. MOORE. I BELIEVE THE PASSAGE OF YEARS ONLY LEFT THE IMPRESSION THAT I HAD BEEN DISMISSED BECAUSE HE'D BEEN SO UPSET AND ANGRY ABOUT IT.
I WAS IN THE BOSS'S LAB, NOT IN MIRAND'S LABS.
SEE ATTACHED FILE ABOUT RETURNING FROM RPMI:
[Note: This file was not attached. I will check it out.]
BARB THEN SAYS....
===
I also sought to confirm what RP had told me by tracking down a couple of students who attended the same session she did. One did not remember her, one did ... and recalled she had caused a big problem and then was gone from the program.
===
NAME OF THE GIRL, BARB? I ONLY HAD ONE GIRLFRIEND THERE, FROM HUNGARY.
===
She claims to have a green iced tea glass that Oswald gave her thast was a promotional item being given away with Luzianne tea that summer at Reily Coffee ... in fact, she claims Oswald essentially stealing this glass to give it to her is what really got him fired. I contacted Reily Coffee about the promotion and learned they did have a green glass with tea giveaway once ... a "one time only" promotion that happened in like 1961 (don't have the info in front of me). No such promotion according to their records in 1963.
===
RIGHT--THEY HAD TO ADMIT THEY HAD THIS GREEN GLASS AS A PROMOTIONAL ITEM BECAUSE SOMEBODY MIGHT SHOW UP BESIDE ME WHO REMEMBERED IT...BUT THEY HAVE A 'RECORD' WHICH BARB DOES NOT PRODUCE--JUST WHAT MR. REILY TOLD HER--THAT YES, THEY USED THE GREEN GLASS TWO YEARS EARLIER. PRAY, HOW WOULD I HAVE KNOWN ABOUT A GREEN GLASS EVER USED AS A PROMOTIONAL ITEM? HOWEVER, IT WAS A SHORT RUN AND ONLY RAN ONE DAY. IT IS POSSIBLE THESE WERE LEFT OVER BOXES AND USED FOR A SPECIAL PROMOTION, SUCH AS A GRAND OPENING OF SOME STORE.
BARB DOES NOT PRODUCE A RECORD OF WHEN THE RUN ON GREEN GLASSES WAS MADE.
WHY? THEY DID RUNS ALL THE TIME.
THE CHANCES OF MR. REILY REMEMBERING THAT A RUN OF GREEN GLASSES WAS DONE AT REILY'S IN 1961, NOT 1963, AFTER MORE THAN 40 YEARS, IS REALLY QUITE SILLY, AS REILY DID NOT KEEP INVENTORIES ON THEIR PREMIOUM RUNS MORE THAN A COUPLE OF YEARS. MRS. RELY DOES NOT HAVE A RECORD. I KNOW, BECAUSE I KEPT SUCH RECORDS MYSELF FOR THE COMPANY.
===
Lots more, I have checked many things. Anyway, you are correct Jack, Fetzer, and anyone else, needs to do some serious checking before they find themselves mesmerized with her memories and information about her days in the arms of Oswald.
Bests,
Barb :-)
[quote name='Barb Junkkarinen' post='185181' date='Feb 28 2010, 06:38 PM'][quote name='Jack White' post='185174' date='Feb 28 2010, 05:56 PM']
Jim...You are a newcomer to the Judyth experience. Get a complete copy of
her written story, as told to Martin Shackleford and some other LNs, and check
it against documentation. Rich DellaRosa did this. John Armstrong did it. Mary
Ferrell did it. After 9 months or so of study, all found she did not pass the
smell test.
One of the smelliest to me was her claim that Carlos Marcello took an interest
in the two lovers and put Lee and Judyth up at fancy hotels for love trysts. Huh?
Her claim that people who saw them together mistook her for Marina when
she looks nothing like Marina.
Her claim of being passionate lovers when perhaps they worked at the same
company for only two months. The claim about a honeymoon in Cancun
after Lee divorced Marina, when the resort of Cancun did not exist then.
Get her written story and check it out. Have you read her claims, or have
you just formed an opinion based on what she has told you. (You are the latest
in a LONG LIST of researchers she has chaarmed.)
I go with John Armstrong. If he says her stories do not fit the documentation,
then they do not.
Jack[/quote]
Rarely do we agree on anything, Jack .... and this is probably the biggest thing. You have given your friend good advice, I hope he heeds it. Judyth is good, very good ... she is very intelligent, and heck, she was majoring in creative writing at UL Lafayette in the late 90s when this all started. It's also interesting that her supprters are nearly all male, the most vociferous ones being those who have met her or spoken to her. She always has an explanation, an excuse for everything. But do some simple fact checking on the basics of her story, and it falls apart.
Judyth has taken some basics from her life ... being an outstanding science student and working at Reily Coffee and strung them together with events that do not check out to tell a story of a young girl conscipted into the CIA while a high school junior at a science fair in Indiana, to being molded into a secret cancer researcher funded and looked over all the way to Dave Ferrie's kitchen in Louisiana.
She claimed that as a high school student, some group of former military intel types had a class in Russian created just for her at the local community college so she could learn Russian and be able to read Russian cancer research journals. Aside from being laughable on its face, I did some research and have documented that the school already HAD a Russian class two years before Judyth claims one was created there for her. She claims funding, grants, scholarships from the American Cancer Society, the National Science Foundation, NIH, etc ... researched all, spoke to people, have the annual reports for some of them, have letters from the American Cancer Society .... in not one of these place's records is any record of her ever having received a dime in either cash or equipment as she claims. (She did win a $250 prize toward college tuition in a high school science fair in Florida from the local chapter of the ACS there.) Beyond that, none of them ever heard of her.
She claimed to be the star of a summer program at Roswell Park Cancer Institute, with accolades and grants and scholarships heaped upon her and Dr. Moore of RP then becoming a secret mentor of sorts and overseeing her cancer research as she went off to college, he and Ochsner being somehow involved in her handling. Funny thing is, when I contacted Roswell Park with a question about the summer progrsam (it is still ongoing) I received a letter back from the dean, vice president and member of the board saying that Judyth "never completed the program as she was dismissed." I nearly fell off my chair. Lots of denials (first) then revisions, then excuses followed. But that is the word from RP and it was verified later by a reporter in her hometown in Florida who had been directed to me for some info for a story he was writing for the local paper. I also sought to confirm what RP had told me by tracking down a couple of students who attended the same session she did. One did not remember her, one did ... and recalled she had caused a big problem and then was gone from the program.
She claims to have a green iced tea glass that Oswald gave her thast was a promotional item being given away with Luzianne tea that summer at Reily Coffee ... in fact, she claims Oswald essentially stealing this glass to give it to her is what really got him fired. I contacted Reily Coffee about the promotion and learned they did have a green glass with tea giveaway once ... a "one time only" promotion that happened in like 1961 (don't have the info in front of me). No such promotion according to their records in 1963.
Lots more, I have checked many things. Anyway, you are correct Jack, Fetzer, and anyone else, needs to do some serious checking before they find themselves mesmerized with her memories and information about her days in the arms of Oswald.
Bests,
Barb :-)
[/quote]
Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - Jack White - 27-03-2010
jack white Wrote:The above is quite clear. David said the step-father of LHOdavid healy Wrote:jan klimkowski Wrote:...
How did lho learn of these mafia "free phones"?
Why would lho have been given access to mafia "free phones" to make long distance love calls? That's not helping the mob to make money.
i believe LHO's step father was involved in the mob numbers racket in new orleans, which was 'somehow' linked to the mob heirarchy in dallas... Fwiw
David...John Pic was an insurance man. Ed Ekdahl was an electrical
engineer. Those were LHO's only step-fathers, and both marriages
were brief. I know of no mafia connections. Perhaps you are thinking
of Dutz Murret, who i think was an uncle. He was "reputed" to have
a connection to Marcello. His daughter Dorothea, if my memory is
correct, was in the CIA, and had contact with LHO in Japan. She would
be LHO's cousin, i think.
Jack
had mafia connections. I wrote that neither Pic nor Eckdahl
had mafia connections. I said that it was Murret who was
alleged to have mafia connections. Anyone who misinterprets
what I wrote needs to read more slowly and comprehend what
is written.
Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - David Healy - 27-03-2010
Jack White Wrote:jack white Wrote:The above is quite clear. David said the step-father of LHOdavid healy Wrote:jan klimkowski Wrote:...
How did lho learn of these mafia "free phones"?
Why would lho have been given access to mafia "free phones" to make long distance love calls? That's not helping the mob to make money.
i believe LHO's step father was involved in the mob numbers racket in new orleans, which was 'somehow' linked to the mob heirarchy in dallas... Fwiw
David...John Pic was an insurance man. Ed Ekdahl was an electrical
engineer. Those were LHO's only step-fathers, and both marriages
were brief. I know of no mafia connections. Perhaps you are thinking
of Dutz Murret, who i think was an uncle. He was "reputed" to have
a connection to Marcello. His daughter Dorothea, if my memory is
correct, was in the CIA, and had contact with LHO in Japan. She would
be LHO's cousin, i think.
Jack
had mafia connections. I wrote that neither Pic nor Eckdahl
had mafia connections. I said that it was Murret who was
alleged to have mafia connections. Anyone who misinterprets
what I wrote needs to read more slowly and comprehend what
is written.
Murret, that's who I was thinking of.... His uncle.... thanks Jack!
Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - James H. Fetzer - 27-03-2010
JIM DIRECTS QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS TO JACK:
HOW CAN YOU DENY THERE WERE "CONNECTIONS" TO THE MOB
IF HIS UNCLE WAS AN ASSOCIATE OF MARCELLO? YOU APPEAR
TO BE EVADING THE QUESTION. IF HIS UNCLE WAS ASSOCIATED
WITH MARCELLO, THEN LEE HAD CONNECTIONS TO THE MAFIA!
NOT ONLY THAT BUT, ACCORDING TO JUDYTH, LEE EVEN KNEW
MARCHELLO PERSONALLY AND ENCOUNTERED HIM AT THE "500
CLUB", WHERE HE AND RUBY AND MARCELLO DISCUSSED GUN
RUNNING. BUT YOU DENY HE HAD CONNECTIONS TO THE MOB?
SHOULDN'T YOU BE MAKING FAR MORE QUALIFIED ASSERTIONS,
SUCH AS THAT, UNLESS WHAT JUDYTH IS SAYING IS TRUE, AS
FAR AS YOU KNOW, OTHER THAN A RUMORED ASSOCIATION OF
UNCLE DUTZ TO MARCELLO, HE HAD NO MAFIA CONNECTIONS?
THERE ARE SEVERAL POSTS ON THIS FORUM THAT SUGGEST THE
USE OF A BETTING LINE BY LEE AND JUDYTH WAS NOT BEYOND
THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY. ARE YOU WILLING TO ADMIT THAT
IT IS POSSIBLE THAT WHAT JUDYTH SAID ABOUT IT WAS TRUE?
BOTH OF THESE CASES ARE EXAMPLES OF SMALL POINTS WHERE
YOUR EXTREME BIAS AGAINST JUDYTH IS SHOWING. I AM SORRY
TO SAY IT, JACK, BUT THE QUESTIONS I AM ASKING BELOW ARE
FAR MORE SERIOUS AND I AM NOT GETTING ANSWERS FROM YOU.
YOU ARE POSTING PHOTOS SHOWING A "SECOND MARGUERITE"
WAS TALLER THAN THE ONE AT THE FUNERAL. THAT'S FINE, IF
WE HAVE GOOD REASONS TO TAKE THIS SECOND "MARGUERITE"
AS A REAL PERSON AND THESE PHOTOGRAPHS AS AUTHENTIC.
YOU ARE ALSO POSTING (ON THE SIMKIN FORUM) PHOTOGRAPHS
THAT SHOW THAT ROBERT OSWALD WAS VIRTUALLY LEE'S TWIN.
I AM THEREFORE NOW ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT ROBERT AND
WHETHER HE COULD HAVE IMPERSONATED LEE OVER AND OVER.
HERE IS WHAT I HAVE POSTED AT SIMKIN:
WHEN I ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PRINCIPLES OF SELECTION
THAT JOHN ARMSTRONG USED TO DETERMINE WHICH RECORDS
AND DOCUMENTS WERE GENUINE AND WHICH NOT, YOU OFFER
NO RESPONSE. THAT SUGGESTS HE VACUUMED ALL OF THEM UP.
I AM ALSO CONCERNED WITH THE PROVENANCE OF THE PHOTOS
OF THE SECOND MARGUERITE. MY FATHER'S SECOND WIFE WAS
ALSO NAMED "MARGUERITE". I COULD OFFER PHOTOGRAPHS OF
HER AND IDENTIFY HER AS A "SECOND MARGUERITE" AS WELL.
THE POINT I AM MAKING, JACK, IS THAT IT IS NOT DIFFICULT TO
FIND PHOTOS AND MAKE CLAIMS ABOUT THE IDENTITY OF THOSE
SHOWN. IF JOHN HAD NO PRINCIPLES FOR SORTING DOCUMENTS,
WHAT DID HE DO TO DETERMINE THE PROVENANCE OF PHOTOS?
AND IT APPEARS RATHER OBVIOUS AT THIS POINT IN TIME THAT
SOME OF THE IMAGES OF "THE TWO OSWALDS" ARE PHONY OR
FAKED. KATHY SPOTTED IT AND JUDYTH AGREES AS DO I THAT
ONE ON WHICH YOU HEAVILY DEPEND APPEARS TO BE ALTERED.
I THINK YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO ADDRESS THESE ISSUES.
MORE AND MORE, IT APPEARS TO ME THAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN
CHILD'S PLAY TO CREATE A PARALLEL IMPERSONATION. I HAVE
HIS BOOK, BUT I WOULD APPRECIATE HAVING SOME ANSWERS.
AND HASN'T ROBERT BEEN DISPOSED TO SUPPORT THE THEORY
THAT HIS BROTHER WAS THE ASSASSIN? SINCE THAT IS PURE
FANTASY, DOESN'T THAT SUGGEST THAT HE (ROBERT) MAY HAVE
BEEN DEEPLY INVOLVED? WHO BETTER TO IMPERSONATE LEE?
IF YOU AND JOHN DON'T HAVE DIRECT, CONVINCING ANSWERS
TO THESE QUESTIONS, THEN I AM GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME
TAKING ALL OF THIS SERIOUSLY. YOU HAD AN OBVIOUS DOUBLE
AT HAND. HOW MUCH TIME HAVE YOU SPENT IN STUDYING HIM?
[quote name='James H. Fetzer' post='187966' date='Mar 27 2010, 03:18 AM']
IS IT POSSIBLE ROBERT COULD HAVE BEEN A "SECOND OSWALD"?
DID YOU AND JOHN ATTEMPT TO TRACK ROBERT'S WHEREABOUTS
ON CRUCIAL DATES? THE PHOTO ABOVE ON THE LEFT DOES NOT
LOOK TO ME REMOTELY LIKE LEE OSWALD. I DOUBT THAT IT IS.
[quote name='Jack White' post='187962' date='Mar 27 2010, 03:04 AM']
Lee and Robert were almost as interchangeable as twins.
Jack[/quote]
[/quote]
James H. Fetzer Wrote:Jack,
How can you say--in the same post, no less--that Lee "had no mafia
connections", while acknowledging that he had an uncle who was, as
you put it, "'reputed' to have a connection with [mafia boss] Marcello"?
I appears to me that you are excusing the contradiction because you
do not know any better personally. I take it there are multiple sources
that support the alleged connection between Dutz Murret and Marcello.
Judyth reports that Lee knew Marcello personally. Would you at least
grant that, if the alleged connection between Dutz Murret and Marcello
did exist, then there was "a connection" between Lee and the mafia?
Jim
Jack White Wrote:David Healy Wrote:Jan Klimkowski Wrote:...
How did LHO learn of these mafia "free phones"?
Why would LHO have been given access to mafia "free phones" to make long distance love calls? That's not helping the Mob to make money.
I believe LHO's step father was involved in the mob numbers racket in New Orleans, which was 'somehow' linked to the mob heirarchy in Dallas... FWIW
David...John Pic was an insurance man. Ed Ekdahl was an electrical
engineer. Those were LHO's only step-fathers, and both marriages
were brief. I know of no mafia connections. Perhaps you are thinking
of Dutz Murret, who I think was an uncle. He was "reputed" to have
a connection to Marcello. His daughter Dorothea, if my memory is
correct, was in the CIA, and had contact with LHO in Japan. She would
be LHO's cousin, I think.
Jack
Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - Jack White - 27-03-2010
It is not clear whether the above message was written by JVB or Jim,
since the identity of the writer changes every few sentences.
Whoever wrote it lacks reading comprehension skills. In a reply to
David Healy, I wrote that neither Edwin Eckdahl nor John Pic had
ties to the mafia. I wrote that David must have been referring to
LHO's uncle Dutz Murret, who had alleged ties to the mafia. I said
NOTHING about any LHO ties to the mafia.
This assertition has been morphed into me stating that LHO had
no ties to the mafia.
However, I will state that the known record does not contain
any known connection of Murret to LEE since Lee was a small
child, nor to HARVEY since the year he spent at Beauregard
Junior High School. Even for the brief childhood years and the
Junior High year, there is no documentation of a close family
connection to Murret. A child under 6 and a teen aged 14/15
are not likely to be involved in the mafia. Even IF a relative
was connected, that does not make a child a mafioso.
Jack
Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - James H. Fetzer - 27-03-2010
These are all mine, Jack. Doesn't it even say so at the top: JIM
DIRECTS QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS TO JACK? Does it not?
You are really disappointing me, Jack. I have asked you some
very important questions about methodology you are avoiding.
I am not used to you displaying evasion and misrepresentation.
I am not even impressed with your response about connections
with the mafia. Was Dutz living with his wife when Lee arrived in
New Orleans? Wouldn't he have been aware of Lee's presence?
And speaking of reading comprehension, didn't I point out that,
if Judyth is right in what she says, Lee knew Marcello personally?
And, of course, he also knew Jack Ruby, who, as I understand it,
had a few connections to the mob himself. So I really don't think
you have a leg to stand on. And for you to imply that you can't
tell who authored a post when it states explicitly that these are
questions from me to you is almost beyond belief. What gives?
This originated with Judyth's explanation that they had access to
free phone calls because of a Mafia betting line. You disputed it
on the grounds that Lee had no connections to the Mafia. I think
the argument has gone downhill from there. Just say that you
misunderstood the matter and that I am right and we'll move on.
Stop evading the questions I have posed to you about Armstrong
and his methodology. I have asked several, including how John
decided which documents and records were authentic and which
not and whether Robert have been "the second Oswald". Please
answer them. My confidence in "two Oswalds" is rapidly waning.
Jack White Wrote:It is not clear whether the above message was written by JVB or Jim,
since the identity of the writer changes every few sentences.
Whoever wrote it lacks reading comprehension skills. In a reply to
David Healy, I wrote that neither Edwin Eckdahl nor John Pic had
ties to the mafia. I wrote that David must have been referring to
LHO's uncle Dutz Murret, who had alleged ties to the mafia. I said
NOTHING about any LHO ties to the mafia.
This assertition has been morphed into me stating that LHO had
no ties to the mafia.
However, I will state that the known record does not contain
any known connection of Murret to LEE since Lee was a small
child, nor to HARVEY since the year he spent at Beauregard
Junior High School. Even for the brief childhood years and the
Junior High year, there is no documentation of a close family
connection to Murret. A child under 6 and a teen aged 14/15
are not likely to be involved in the mafia. Even IF a relative
was connected, that does not make a child a mafioso.
Jack