James H. Fetzer Wrote:Ed,

What proof do you have that he was killed in this raid? You are committing a brazen example of begging the question by taking for granted that he was still alive to be killed. Try David Ray Griffin, OSAMA BIN LADEN: DEAD OR ALIVE? if you care about the truth.

Ed Jewett Wrote:Getting Access to the Secrets of the Osama Bin Ladin Kill

http://cryptome.org/0005/schmidle/schmidle-access.htm

Ed Jewett Wrote:The Mysterious Death of Osama bin Laden: Creating Evidence Where There Is None

by Dr. Paul Craig Roberts

The New Yorker has published a story planted on Nicholas Schmidle by unidentified sources who claim to be familiar with the alleged operation that murdered Osama bin Laden.

There is no useful information in the story. Its purpose seems simply to explain away or cover up holes in the original story, principally why did the Seals murder an unarmed, unresisting Osama bin Laden whose capture would have resulted in a goldmine of terrorist information and whose show trial would have rescued the government's crumbling 9/11 story?

The gullible Schmidle tells us: "There was never any question of detaining or capturing him--it wasn't a split-second decision. No one wanted detainees,' the special-operations officer told me." In other words, the SEALs murdered bin Laden, because the US government did not want detainees, not because trigger-happy stupid SEALs destroyed a font of terrorist information.

Why did the SEALS dump bin Laden's body in the ocean instead of producing the evidence to a skeptical world?

No real explanation, just that SEALS had done the same thing to other victims. Schmidle writes: "All along, the SEALs had planned to dump bin Laden's corpse into the sea--a blunt way of ending the bin Laden myth." But before they did so, the US checked with an unidentified Saudi intelligence operative, who allegedly replied, "Your plan sounds like a good one."

I mean, really.

After all of Sy Hersh's New Yorker revelations of US government lies and plots, one can understand the pressure that might have been applied to the New Yorker to publish this fairy tale. But what is extraordinary is that there was a real story that Schmidle and the New Yorker could have investigated.

In the immediate aftermath of bin Laden's alleged murder by the SEALs, Pakistani TV interviewed the next door neighbor to bin Laden's alleged compound. Someone supplied the video with an English translation running at the bottom of the video. According to the translation, the next door neighbor, Mr. Bashir, said that he watched the entire operation from the roof of his house. There were 3 helicopters. Only 1 landed. About a dozen men got out and entered the house. They shortly returned and boarded the helicopter. When the helicopter lifted off it exploded, killing all aboard. Mr. Bashir reports seeing bodies and pieces of bodies all over.

The US government acknowledges that it lost a helicopter, but claims no one was hurt. Obviously, as there were no further landings, if everyone was killed as Mr. Bashir reports, there was no body to be dumped into the ocean.

A real investigation would begin with Mr. Bashir's interview. Was he actually saying what the English translation reported? I have not been able to find the interview with the English translation, but I believe this is the interview that I saw. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0vo-L3VACs

Surely there is a qualified interpreter who can tell us what Mr. Bashir is saying. If the English translation that I saw is not a hoax, then we are presented with a story totally different from the one the government told us and repeated again through Mr. Schmidle.

If the English translation of Mr. Bashir's interview is correct, one would think that there would be some interest on the part of US news organizations and on the part of the intelligence committees in Congress to question Mr. Bashir and his neighbors, many of whom are also interviewed on Pakistani TV saying that they have lived in Abbottabad all their lives and are absolutely certain that Osama bin Laden was not among them.

Mr. Schmidle goes to lengths to describe the SEALs' weapons, although his story makes it clear that no weapons were needed as bin Laden is described as "unarmed" and undefended. The "startled" bin Laden didn't even hear the helicopters or all the SEALs coming up the stairs. In addition to all his fatal illnesses which most experts believe killed him a decade ago, bin Laden must have been deaf as neighbors report that the sound of the helicopters was "intense."

When Pakistanis on the scene in Abbottabad report a totally different story from the one that reaches us second and third hand from unidentified operatives speaking to reporters in the US who have never been to Abbottabad, shouldn't someone qualified look into the story?

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25898

Ed Jewett Wrote:We'd have to ask several questions.

1) Precisely what kind of dialysis was he on if he were on it? There are multiple types: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialysis Yes, we share a bias about Western medicine and Western technologies and Western standards for surgical cleanliness. Certainly a consistent lack of attention to the process can increase morbidity and mortality. But, as ntoed in the Wikipedia entry, the process was invented by jury-rigging: "Due to the scarcity of available resources, Kolff had to improvise and build the initial machine using sausage casings, beverage cans, a washing machine and various other items which were available at the time."

2) What is the level of sophistication in terms of nursing, para-medicine and medicine available to the mujahadeen or others in remote rugged parts of Afghanistan and Pakistan (or in urban settings)? What is known about the cadre of people who traveled with bin Laden? Any combatant worth his salt has to have a system/knowledge of medical care/health maintenance or he won't maintain a viable unit for long.

3) What would the purpose be, from the perspective of the US intelligence community and its allies, in floating a false story about OBL's need for dialysis if it weren't true? Was it, instead, a way of perhaps flushing out (pardon the pun) information and/or informants about his whereabouts? And if it was a false story, did the correspondents noted in the article posted by Fetzer participate? Are they known to be fronts for floating disinformation?

There is much disinformation circulating; that is a given. But it can't all be disinformation; otherwise there would be no credibility; the known formulae for mixing truth and disinformation are in the magnitude of the 80/20 rule, not at the low end of the spectrum.

4) Did the purpose of the propaganda/intelligence approach change over the years? What served and worked pre-9/911, circa 9/11, post 9/11 and circa "OBL death raid" may be entirely different packages.

Everything about Ossama bin Laden is shrouded, but perhaps we should be careful in buying into the notion that the Muslim world is incapable of understanding methods of treatment for disease.