Gordon Gray Wrote:IMO it was more complicated and less coordinated than that. The sponsors knew that an ambush was being organized on the mechanic level. The various sponsors had their own special interests and agendas. The military hawks wanted an excuse for a first strike at the Soviet Union. The bankers and industrialists, wanted the Vietnam escalation and the profits that would ensue. The Anti Castro Cubans and their CIA handlers wanted an invasion of Cuba, the Mob wanted to be rid of Bobby Kennedy. They all had their facilitators make contingency plans for all the possible scenarios that could result from the attempted assassination. Most importantly plausible deniability. Phillips was still trying to push his Castro did it scenario even after the Warren Commission was formed. The Sponsors weren't all on the same page about the goals, and the failure to kill Oswald, forced them to improvise, and let things play out. I don't think there was a unified central plan. As to LBJ; my understanding is that Connolly and the conservative wing of the Texas Democratic Party didn't want a motorcade at all for fear of an embarrassing incident and also because the rank and file who would turn out would make the liberal Kennedy look too popular. The Kennedy people for that very reason wanted a motorcade. The Connolly people wanted the Trade Mart location and the Secret Service and the Kennedy people wanted the Women's Building. The Women's building would have resulted in a motorcade that went west to east through Dealey Plaza and would have gone straight down Main street at a speed that would have precluded an ambush there. A compromise of a motorcade to the Trade Mart that took the motorcade east to west through Dealey Plaza was reached. The person responsible for forging this compromise was Bill Moyers.

Albert Doyle Wrote:

Gordon Gray Wrote:IMO it was more complicated and less coordinated than that. The sponsors knew that an ambush was being organized on the mechanic level. The various sponsors had their own special interests and agendas. The military hawks wanted an excuse for a first strike at the Soviet Union. The bankers and industrialists, wanted the Vietnam escalation and the profits that would ensue. The Anti Castro Cubans and their CIA handlers wanted an invasion of Cuba, the Mob wanted to be rid of Bobby Kennedy. They all had their facilitators make contingency plans for all the possible scenarios that could result from the attempted assassination. Most importantly plausible deniability. Phillips was still trying to push his Castro did it scenario even after the Warren Commission was formed. The Sponsors weren't all on the same page about the goals, and the failure to kill Oswald, forced them to improvise, and let things play out. I don't think there was a unified central plan. As to LBJ; my understanding is that Connolly and the conservative wing of the Texas Democratic Party didn't want a motorcade at all for fear of an embarrassing incident and also because the rank and file who would turn out would make the liberal Kennedy look too popular. The Kennedy people for that very reason wanted a motorcade. The Connolly people wanted the Trade Mart location and the Secret Service and the Kennedy people wanted the Women's Building. The Women's building would have resulted in a motorcade that went west to east through Dealey Plaza and would have gone straight down Main street at a speed that would have precluded an ambush there. A compromise of a motorcade to the Trade Mart that took the motorcade east to west through Dealey Plaza was reached. The person responsible for forging this compromise was Bill Moyers.

A common mistake people make is that the Northwoods framing of Oswald would have led to a nuclear exchange. If you go back and look at what the military advisors were telling JFK they said a window of opportunity existed for a pre-emptive first strike where the US would enjoy a nuclear capability advantage that would justify the attack. Once Kennedy was assassinated both the US and USSR went on high nuclear alert which defeated any chance of a first strike and would have been a messy all out exchange had it occurred. Whoever altered NSAM 273 was sending a message to the generals once Johnson took over.

Adele Edisen Wrote:This video may be a duplicate, but it's worth watching again.

JFK: Will We Ever Know the Truth? (Video)
by Russ Baker with Abby Martin

Video: 11:25 minutes long

Sorry. I forgot to include the link to the video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYgFGFU3iPM

Adele

Gordon Gray Wrote:The Military believed that the superiority in number and quality of US missiles would lead to annihilation of the Soviet Union, with acceptable collateral damage on the part of the US.

Albert Doyle Wrote:

Gordon Gray Wrote:The Military believed that the superiority in number and quality of US missiles would lead to annihilation of the Soviet Union, with acceptable collateral damage on the part of the US.

There was some psychology involved with JFK compromising over Cuba that kind of defused the all-or-none mentality of the nuclear bomber generals. People like LeMay were dangerous because they had a mindset of scorched earth Germany where the ability of the enemy was destroyed by means of total destruction. The nuclear bomb was a quick way to achieve that minus some lingering radiation. I think the Cuba compromise sort of affected the generals and made them realize there were other options than WWIII. With their guilt over having actually murdered Jack Kennedy like bloody handed murderers they probably accepted the compromise of VietNam as a means of satisfying their anti-communist objectives.

Gordon Gray Wrote:

Albert Doyle Wrote:

Gordon Gray Wrote:The Military believed that the superiority in number and quality of US missiles would lead to annihilation of the Soviet Union, with acceptable collateral damage on the part of the US.

There was some psychology involved with JFK compromising over Cuba that kind of defused the all-or-none mentality of the nuclear bomber generals. People like LeMay were dangerous because they had a mindset of scorched earth Germany where the ability of the enemy was destroyed by means of total destruction. The nuclear bomb was a quick way to achieve that minus some lingering radiation. I think the Cuba compromise sort of affected the generals and made them realize there were other options than WWIII. With their guilt over having actually murdered Jack Kennedy like bloody handed murderers they probably accepted the compromise of VietNam as a means of satisfying their anti-communist objectives.

This is a remarkabley romantic notion. They compromised their position because they felt guilty? Do you really believe those guys in the bleachers at the Bethesda morgue, smoking their cigars, were capable off feeling guilt. These were ruthless people. And they were hell bent on destroying Communism. And they thought Kennedy was one. His approach to Castro was the final straw.

Tracy Riddle Wrote:It's easy to call them psychopaths, and from our perspective they are, but in their own minds they were dedicated patriots trying to protect their country from the menace of Communism. People like LeMay, David Sanchez Morales, Guy Banister and others sincerely believed that anyone to the Left of them politically was a danger to "America" as they envisioned it. Many of the people on the Right are just cynics who care about money and power, but the "true believer" types are the really dangerous ones.

Gordon Gray Wrote:This is a remarkabley romantic notion. They compromised their position because they felt guilty? Do you really believe those guys in the bleachers at the Bethesda morgue, smoking their cigars, were capable off feeling guilt. These were ruthless people. And they were hell bent on destroying Communism. And they thought Kennedy was one. His approach to Castro was the final straw.