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+--- Thread: Vincent Bugliosi pre Reclaiming History (/Thread-Vincent-Bugliosi-pre-Reclaiming-History)
Vincent Bugliosi pre Reclaiming History - Cliff Varnell - 17-06-2013
Keith Millea Wrote:Quote:[FONT=&]Inside The LC: [B]The Strange but Mostly True Story of Laurel Canyon and the Birth of the Hippie Generation
Part I[/B][/FONT]
Exactly Cliff,what a crock,but then I'm always reminded by McGowans title...
"The Mostly True Story of"......
It implies that the hippie generation was born in Laurel Canyon.
The Hippie Generation was born in San Francisco and at Sandoz.
My take on the MK/ULTRA connect is this -- by the early 60's it was apparent that LSD had limited operation usage as a "mind control" drug. It was non-addictive. One didn't suffer cravings for LSD as one might suffer a craving for heroin or chocolate croissants.
Heroin and crack cocaine are weaponized drugs because lots of people become severely addicted.
LSD failed as a mass weaponized drug. It was "weaponized" when given to someone without their knowledge -- but how that person would react was entirely unpredictable, depending on their state of mind when coming on to it. LSD was largely unsuitable as "mind control" -- its effect was the mercurial opposite.
So there was an institutional dump of the stuff -- giving it away for free and then making money selling it. "The first one's always free."
Laurel Canyon...the birthplace of folk-rock and country-rock.
Psychedelic hard rock was born in San Francisco.
Vincent Bugliosi pre Reclaiming History - Jan Klimkowski - 17-06-2013
Anyone who has taken acid trips or babysat for a person tripping knows that LSD is not an addictive drug and that it is not a drug of overt control.
However, it is a drug that enables one person to influence and manipulate the perceptions of another person. This is why shrinks have a long and ongoing history of continuing to use LSD in therapy, sometimes in specially licensed clinics.
Set and setting.
LSD, like many natural hallucinogenices, can also be used in rites of passage.
In journeys from one emotional state to another.
My own considered suspicion is that LSD can be used in "imprinting". To "record" an incident at the neuronal level is a particularly vivid fashion, in the same fashion that neurologists have now proven that trauma causes memory to be laid down in a dangerously potent fashion.
There are also claims that "Manson Acid" was not always LSD.
Adam Gorightly made the following observations in the The Shadow over Santa Susana:
Quote:Through his lectures, written material and personal correspondence, I have pieced together John Judge's version of the Manson Family Conspiracy, extrapolated from the seeds of Mae Brussell's seminal research. Part of Judge's argument stems from a conversation Charles Manson had with Tim Leary in Folsom Prison - when the two were located in cells next to each other - and Manson asked Leary why he did not "use acid to control people?" To Judge, Charlie's question revealed a basic contradiction, because LSD - in his opinion - was a drug that would be useless as a control agent of any sort, except to create a state of confusion. For anyone who's experimented to any degree with LSD, it quickly becomes evident that - as an agent to control minds - it's a highly unpredictable compound.
...........................
It is Judge's opinion - along with that of the late Mae Brussell - that the type of "acid" the Mansonoids were using was a military version, unlike the stuff found on the streets, and though it was called "acid" was actually different from LSD-25. Judge believes that the MK-ULTRA version of "acid" was a psilocybin derivative called EA1729 that was used at Wright Patterson Air Force Base as part of MK-ULTRA experiments. According to Judge, this is the same "acid" that a buddy of David Berkowitz's named Terry Patterson - who served with him in Korea - claimed Berkowitz was given by the "brass" while in the Army, when he was placed in a special program reportedly for "profiled" candidates, after he asked for conscientious objector status. Mae Brussell was convinced that Berkowitz was another in a long list of MK-ULTRA patsies, and more correctly referred to him as "Son of Uncle Sam".
.................................
It has also been documented that Tex Watson tripped out on a belladonna concoction - Telache - a short time before the Tate-LaBianca murders, and was never "quite the same". Belladonna has a long history in the annals of espionage, another of the slew of chemical compounds used under the auspices of MK-ULTRA during the 50s. The derivative of belladonna that was used in these experiments was Atropine, a natural extract of the plant.
Would I want my set and setting for any kind of hallucinogenic trip to be controlled by Charlie Manson? Hell - No.
This thread is about Bugliosi and the Manson family.
I certainly do not believe that every great rock or folk band of the sixties is some sort of MK-ULTRA creation.
I do believe that there are lots of loose ends and provocative traces surrounding the Manson family.
I'm also intrigued by the claims that Joan Baez may have been a victim of trauma programming. See here.
Vincent Bugliosi pre Reclaiming History - Jim DiEugenio - 17-06-2013
I just finished the section of my new book on the Tate/LaBianca case.
Wow. I did not do that much research on it, only about three weeks worth. But even with just that, one can see that the thesis Bugliosi puts forth is really questionable.
In fact, its hard to believe he bought it. Because his partner at the trial, Aaron Stovitz, did not until the day he died.
In my book, I am going to do a bit of revisionism on the whole Helter Skelter idea.
Vince is not going to like it.
Vincent Bugliosi pre Reclaiming History - Keith Millea - 17-06-2013
On my Weirhere thread,I posted this nice interview with Rosie McGee.It takes a few minutes to get past her beginning personal profile,then she talks about Living with the dead in the early years.Some great early GD musings and pictures.I really liked one quote:
"The people who came looking for the "Summer of Love" in 1967,were a year too late."
Rosie McGee interview
Vincent Bugliosi pre Reclaiming History - Cliff Varnell - 20-06-2013
Jan Klimkowski Wrote:(snip for brevity)
There are also claims that "Manson Acid" was not always LSD.
Adam Gorightly made the following observations in the The Shadow over Santa Susana:
Quote:(snip for brevity)
It is Judge's opinion - along with that of the late Mae Brussell - that the type of "acid" the Mansonoids were using was a military version, unlike the stuff found on the streets, and though it was called "acid" was actually different from LSD-25. Judge believes that the MK-ULTRA version of "acid" was a psilocybin derivative called EA1729 that was used at Wright Patterson Air Force Base as part of MK-ULTRA experiments.
So was the EA1729 sold to Manson as part of an MKULTRA experiment -- or was it a case of Drug Dealing for Fun & Profit?
Vincent Bugliosi pre Reclaiming History - Jan Klimkowski - 20-06-2013
Cliff Varnell Wrote:So was the EA1729 sold to Manson as part of an MKULTRA experiment -- or was it a case of Drug Dealing for Fun & Profit?
Neither.
The allegation is that certain experimental narcotics were supplied to Manson by his handler.
As we know, much of the MK-ULTRA style experimentation was not carried out in laboratories.
It was field work, using disposable or deniable subjects. Eg orphans and cult members.
It is entirely possible that, like Jonestown, the Manson family was a plausibly deniable field experiment to see how much the human will could be controlled.
Vincent Bugliosi pre Reclaiming History - Cliff Varnell - 20-06-2013
Jan Klimkowski Wrote:Cliff Varnell Wrote:So was the EA1729 sold to Manson as part of an MKULTRA experiment -- or was it a case of Drug Dealing for Fun & Profit?
Neither.
The allegation is that certain experimental narcotics were supplied to Manson by his handler.
Well, you can't beat free drugs, after all...
Quote:As we know, much of the MK-ULTRA style experimentation was not carried out in laboratories.
It was field work, using disposable or deniable subjects. Eg orphans and cult members.
It is entirely possible that, like Jonestown, the Manson family was a plausibly deniable field experiment to see how much the human will could be controlled.
I'm in the market to buy Jonestown as such but as yet I'm not in the market to buy Manson.
Is there a solid lead on who Manson's handler might have been?
Vincent Bugliosi pre Reclaiming History - Jan Klimkowski - 20-06-2013
Cliff Varnell Wrote:Is there a solid lead on who Manson's handler might have been?
Several handlers have been speculated.
Because of lawsuits - which as we know only the richly connected can afford - they are rarely explicitly named.
If you hunt around the threads on DPF which have been linked, you can discern a lot.......
Vincent Bugliosi pre Reclaiming History - Tracy Riddle - 21-06-2013
Bugliosi supposedly was interested in the possibility of a second gun in the RFK assassination, but I don't know if he lost interest in the case.
From this article, Bugliosi started working on his book in 1989 already intent on proving Oswald's guilt:
[URL="http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/B%20Disk/Bugliosi%20Vincent/Item%2009.pdf"]
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/B%20Disk/Bugliosi%20Vincent/Item%2009.pdf[/URL]
Letters between Weisberg and Bugliosi:
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/B%20Disk/Bugliosi%20Vincent/Item%2001.pdf
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/B%20Disk/Bugliosi%20Vincent/Item%2006.pdf
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/B%20Disk/Bugliosi%20Vincent/Item%2007.pdf
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/B%20Disk/Bugliosi%20Vincent/Item%2008.pdf