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Reclaiming Parkland - Jan Klimkowski - 06-07-2013
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:(And by the way, Shreck has a very long section on the whole Manson was Thetan issue. Its very interesting how it got started.)
Jim - do you regard Schreck as a reliable source on anything?
Reclaiming Parkland - Jim DiEugenio - 06-07-2013
I thought I explained this.
I just said that whatever he sources properly and whatever I can corroborate. The stuff about Rostau is corroborated by Sanders through a newspaper article.
That is the kind of thing I can use. As I can Manson's views of The Beatles, because Manson said it himself.
Period.
But I don't want to get into this kind of stuff since its not part of what I am going to use.
And then I am gone.
Reclaiming Parkland - Jan Klimkowski - 06-07-2013
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:I thought I explained this.
I just said that whatever he sources properly and whatever I can corroborate. The stuff about Rostau is corroborated by Sanders through a newspaper article.
That is the kind of thing I can use. As I can Manson's views of The Beatles, because Manson said it himself.
Period.
But I don't want to get into this kind of stuff since its not part of what I am going to use.
And then I am gone.
And much of the Ed Sanders stuff is from the deleted chapters of The Family.
As a lawyer, the Bug used whatever he considered helped his case, and omitted whatever didn't.
Much of what was omitted from Helter Skelter was suppressed.
A familiar MO.
Reclaiming Parkland - Jim Hackett II - 07-07-2013
Ready to order too.
Interesting discussion here abouts too.
Reclaiming Parkland - Charles Drago - 07-07-2013
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:Can we calm down a bit?
If I were any calmer, I'd be asleep.
My tone was not fervid, my thoughts were not scrambled by passions.
I'm sure, Jim, that you're not attempting to draw attention from my message by suggesting that the messenger was somehow ... beside himself.
Good?
Thanks.
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:My book is not about Manson.]
I never meant to state or imply that it was.
Based on what you've revealed about the text and subtext of your new book, however, I'm led to conclude that you will reference the "Manson" affair more than simply in passing. I can't imagine how you can probe the deep political elements observable in Bugliosi's work without an in-depth discussion of Helter Skelter and its main character.
I guess that I'm hard-pressed to understand how, as you state, you can meaningfully discuss "Helter Skelter ... only as far as to show that the popular mythology about the Tate/LaBianca murders is wrong ... [and] that Bugliosi had a prime and large role in spawning it" while harboring the paper-thin (my term) understanding of it all that you yourself describe.
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:My job is not to solve [the Manson] case. Sorry. I think JFK, RFK and MLK is plenty for one guy to do. Don't you think so? I sure as heck do.
Here's that pesky straw man of yours again. I never suggested that you should be expected to "solve" the Manson mystery, but only be sufficiently conversant with the official version and adept at plumbing its deep political depths.
And just for the record, neither you nor I have "solved" the cases of the murders of JFK, RFK, and MLK. The obligation to do so is no more yours than it is anyone else's.
So we're clear.
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:My job is only to show how what VInce did in that case is as flawed as what he did in Reclaiming History.
So excuse me if I don't join up with Gorightly and John Judge and The Shadow over Santa Susana on this right now. That was never my intent. My intent is to show how this reflects on VB. That is it. And that is quite good enough for my limited purposes.
I'll reiterate what I posted earlier in this thread:
"By your own admission, Jim, it's clear that your learning curve is appropriately steep and, at this point in time, represents a journey barely begun. With all due respect, please consider extending your deadline until you've been able to mine insight from the startle reflex.
I'm sure you'll agree that the last thing the canon of deep political research needs is another under-informed book-length examination of extraordinarily complex and challenging subjects."
Reclaiming Parkland - Charles Drago - 07-07-2013
I find the practice of pre-cognitive reviewing of books, films, etc. to be both abhorrent and often indicative of deep political action.
Please understand that my comments regarding Reclaiming Parkland are meant to express concerns based NOT upon the reading of this as yet unpublished volume, but rather upon recent posts made here by its author.
I intend to purchase, read with an open mind, and offer informed comment upon the book as soon as possible.
Reclaiming Parkland - Cliff Varnell - 07-07-2013
Anthony Thorne Wrote:I'm reading through the Naval Intelligence, MKUltra and the Hippie Movement thread, following the various links
https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?698-Naval-Intelligence-MKUltra-and-the-Hippie-Movement&highlight=manson
and it's clear that the official Helter Skelter narrative conceals a tightly compacted morass of nasty, interconnected activity that many folks would prefer to see left alone.
Does it?
Or is "Helter Skelter" just one of a thousand things some tripping hippie (Manson) might go on and on about -- one of those things a murderous scamp (Susan Atkins) might seize on to save her own neck?
The only activity I see in the article cited is an author studiously avoiding the actual history of rock n roll in the State of California in the mid-60's. He's trying so hard to write Laurel Canyon Babylon he puts the LA cart before the San Francisco horse, musically speaking.
A good friend of mine was a friend of Frank Zappa. He said Frank often lectured about the evils of pot (and all mind-altering drugs) as a government plot to dumb down American youth. "He wouldn't have tolerated any Manson family types in his house for very long," my friend tells me.
Get high at Frank's house and you got yer ass kicked out pronto.
Now Frank Zappa stands accused of inciting a youth movement fueled by the government's desire to dumb down American youth?
First of all, of course, the hippie movement began in San Francisco and the LA rock scene followed.
Second of all, Frank wasn't a saint but he was a brilliant musician and a great American and in my book anyone who thinks otherwise can go fuck themselves.
The guys who deserve the most credit for the hippie/LSD explosion are Bill Graham, Ken Kesey, and Augustus Owsley Stanley III. As well as the Jefferson Airplane, the Grateful Dead, Big Brother & the Holding Company, the Great Society, Blue Cheer, Quicksilver Messenger Service, and Moby Grape.
Graham was a foster kid, a German Jew refugee from Hitler who grew up in the Bronx.
Kesey was the son of Oregon dairy farmers.
Owsley had an elite background, the only person in this saga worthy of "deep" analysis, imho.
Reclaiming Parkland - Cliff Varnell - 07-07-2013
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:I thought I explained this. As I can Manson's views of The Beatles, because Manson said it himself.
Manson sez a lot of things.
That's what Manson does -- he talks. Incessantly, according to a ten year cellie of his.
Susan Atkins cherry-picked parts of Manson's on-going substance-fueled rap to paint him as a mind-control cult leader. She did this in the LA Times five days after she was charged with murder.
Her father claimed she was just trying to save her own hide. Seems apparent, to me...fwiw...
Reclaiming Parkland - Cliff Varnell - 07-07-2013
Quote:
Let's not forget that, during his time in prison, Charles Manson had become a Scientological Clear.
Are we to believe this because of something Charles Manson claimed?
Quote: In fact, it's believed he was an Operating Thetan.
Impressive for a guy who gives ample evidence of being a total fuck up.
Reclaiming Parkland - Jan Klimkowski - 07-07-2013
Cliff Varnell Wrote:Anthony Thorne Wrote:I'm reading through the Naval Intelligence, MKUltra and the Hippie Movement thread, following the various links
https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?698-Naval-Intelligence-MKUltra-and-the-Hippie-Movement&highlight=manson
and it's clear that the official Helter Skelter narrative conceals a tightly compacted morass of nasty, interconnected activity that many folks would prefer to see left alone.
Does it?
Or is "Helter Skelter" just one of a thousand things some tripping hippie (Manson) might go on and on about -- one of those things a murderous scamp (Susan Atkins) might seize on to save her own neck?
The only activity I see in the article cited is an author studiously avoiding the actual history of rock n roll in the State of California in the mid-60's. He's trying so hard to write Laurel Canyon Babylon he puts the LA cart before the San Francisco horse, musically speaking.
Cliff - if you've read the MK-ULTRA, Naval Intelligence and the hippie movement thread, you'll know that is far broader and more nuanced than the article linked in the OP, which for me is no more than some balls thrown in the air.