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+--- Thread: Definite proof the BYPs were faked - and who is Johnnie GRIZZAFFI and what did he say? (/thread-13599.html)
Definite proof the BYPs were faked - and who is Johnnie GRIZZAFFI and what did he say? - Peter Lemkin - 28-01-2015
Did Groden get to examine them? Who, among those we trust, did get to see them?..if anyone we trust did.
Definite proof the BYPs were faked - and who is Johnnie GRIZZAFFI and what did he say? - Herbert Blenner - 28-01-2015
David Josephs Wrote:Sorry HB, I have ZERO faith in the HSCA photographic panel... The HSCA was set up to simply justify the WCR conclusions -
Once again, you want to take the word of the HSCA and WCR, take it.
The only thing the HSCA proves is that an ongoing conspiracy to cover-up the real perpetrators of the crimes was alive and kicking in the mid 70's.
Maybe ask Sprague or Fonzi about your precious HSCA.
It's the same BS with the handwritting analysis and most everything else the HSCA concludes.
And when independent evidence is produced suggesting a frontal shot - our government goes on the war path to discredit it.
When witnesses state there are shots from the front, the WCR and HSCA does everything in its power to discredit it.
Sound like an innocent government doing their due diligence to me HB.... ::
Just out of curiousity HB, have you seen any evidence of these microscopic examinations which claim the markings are the same?
Have you actually seen these images/negatives in person?
What is it about a government report, THIS government report that gives you cause to believe them when virtually every bit of incriminating evidence was manipulated into position and confirmed by "government" report
as corroborated evidence against Oswald... when we learn daily that this evidence IS the conspiracy and not indicative of what actually happened of what the evidence actually says.
Why do you buy their bullsh!t HB?
Some members of the HSCA medical panel reported that the remnant throat wound had features by which the same panel argued that entering bullets made the small scalp wound and the transverse back wound.
The photographic panel also had members who reported observations contrary to the conclusions of their group. In particular these members reported that all the backyard photographic materials had negative scratch marks in precisely the same location.
http://hdblenner.com/scratch.htm
In this case their observations evidenced the extremely tedious procedure of impressing the same signature of the Imperial Reflex camera upon all the photographic materials.
Definite proof the BYPs were faked - and who is Johnnie GRIZZAFFI and what did he say? - Jim Hargrove - 29-01-2015
Hmmm... let's go back to yesterday.....
Many of us no doubt would trust the Dallas Police over the FBI in this sordid affair (faint praise indeed!), but nonetheless give little credence to any DPD filing system about the evidence of "Lee Harvey Oswald's" so-called possessions.
Even assuming, for a moment, that most of them (except, obviously, for Captain Westbrook) were honest, the Dallas Police never had a chance in this case. It's true that Stovall and another or two said SOME of the Backyard Photos evidence was found in a cardboard box at... where else?... The Paine's. And here's the first page of Stovall B to "prove" it:
But what was actually in that box will never be proved. Why?
Because less than 24 hours after the assassination, all of Oswald's so-called possessions were SECRETLY SENT to FBI headquarters in Washington, DC. AND THIS FACT WAS KEPT SECRET FOR DECADES!! MANY TALENTED RESEARCHERS TODAY DON'T RECOGNIZE THIS SIMPLE FACT! In Washington, to the 225 items among Oswald's possessions listed by DPD, the FBI added some 230 additional items. Most of us know the drill here. A Minox spy camera became a LIGHT METER! An entire STAMP KIT magically appeared. A 1956 IRS tax return, minus 1956 U.S. Marine income, became part of the public record! And then the "improved Oswald possessions" were returned to Dallas, before being "OFFICIALLY" sent to Washington on 11/26/63. How do we know this?
How do we know this?
Because FBI specialist James Cadigan accidentally spilled the beans. His sworn testimony was deleted by the Warren Commission on instructions, apparently, by Allen Dulles, thusly...
More than any other single human being, J. Edgar Hoover hid the truth of the Kennedy assassination. That the so-called truth is just lies is proved, I hope, by this post and so many others. Had the FBI not destroyed the original DPD photos of Oswald's "evidence," me might have something more to go on. Hoover, of course, blamed DPD for "faulty techniques."
The Dallas Police, assuming they ever cared, never had a chance. Neither did the rest of us, but would any of us have guessed back then that all the American TV networks, newswires, and newspapers would abandon the truth so easily?
Why would anyone now--at this late date--base this case on some out-of-date DPD file system?
Definite proof the BYPs were faked - and who is Johnnie GRIZZAFFI and what did he say? - David Josephs - 29-01-2015
Well Done Jim...
Another 2 pieces of evidence besides Cadigan is Day himself letting us know all the evidence was taken... One in Jan, one on 11/22...
Definite proof the BYPs were faked - and who is Johnnie GRIZZAFFI and what did he say? - Albert Doyle - 29-01-2015
" Vince Drain also present actually took possession of all evidence. "
(Obviously including the box of Oswald's possessions taken from his residence)
This degree of manipulation would be indicative of further corrupted involvement in Lee Harvey Oswald's assassination by Jack Ruby.
Definite proof the BYPs were faked - and who is Johnnie GRIZZAFFI and what did he say? - Jim Hargrove - 31-01-2015
One other point here....
In the late 1990s, John Armstrong spent day after day wearing little white evidence gloves in the National Archives examining the original objects alleged to comprise Oswald's possessions in 1963. He had the Stovall and Turner exhibits (the 225-item DPD inventory) on one side of his desk, and on the other side pages 263-283 of CE 2003 (the FBI-directed 455-item inventory made after the FBI had secretly taken the possessions to Washington and secretly returned them--greatly expanded--to Dallas). John was only allowed to examine 20 items per day, and so it took some time, but he eventually held in his hand EVERY object listed in the DPD inventories. He examined and then checked off each item on the Stovall and Turner exhibits, and noted that every single object listed on the DPD inventory included initials from the Dallas cops.
Many items at the Archives were not called out on the Stovall and Turner exhibits. Among the items missing from the DPD inventory was any photograph or negative resembling what we now refer to as the Back Yard Photos. But there were some Back Yard Photo exhibits at the National Archives and some referred to in CE 2003. Interestingly, though, John said he examined them carefully, and not a single one was initialed by DPD personnel.
Definite proof the BYPs were faked - and who is Johnnie GRIZZAFFI and what did he say? - Peter Lemkin - 31-01-2015
Jim Hargrove Wrote:One other point here....
In the late 1990s, John Armstrong spent day after day wearing little white evidence gloves in the National Archives examining the original objects alleged to comprise Oswald's possessions in 1963. He had the Stovall and Turner exhibits (the 225-item DPD inventory) on one side of his desk, and on the other side pages 263-283 of CE 2003 (the FBI-directed 455-item inventory made after the FBI had secretly taken the possessions to Washington and secretly returned them--greatly expanded--to Dallas). John was only allowed to examine 20 items per day, and so it took some time, but he eventually held in his hand EVERY object listed in the DPD inventories. He examined and then checked off each item on the Stovall and Turner exhibits, and noted that every single object listed on the DPD inventory included initials from the Dallas cops.
Many items at the Archives were not called out on the Stovall and Turner exhibits. Among the items missing from the DPD inventory was any photograph or negative resembling what we now refer to as the Back Yard Photos. But there were some Back Yard Photo exhibits at the National Archives and some referred to in CE 2003. Interestingly, though, John said he examined them carefully, and not a single one was initialed by DPD personnel.
Well, that is interesting! So, according to J.A., there now are zero photos or negatives of the BYPs in the 'evidence' - or at least not filed as DPD-acquired evidence. Any more information on these 'exhibits' of the BYPs? Only photos, or also a negative; and which ones on display?
Definite proof the BYPs were faked - and who is Johnnie GRIZZAFFI and what did he say? - Jim Hargrove - 31-01-2015
Peter Lemkin Wrote:Well, that is interesting! So, according to J.A., there now are zero photos or negatives of the BYPs in the 'evidence' - or at least not filed as DPD-acquired evidence. Any more information on these 'exhibits' of the BYPs? Only photos, or also a negative; and which ones on display?
I'd put it more that he says that none of the photos followed the traditional chain of evidence for "Oswald's possessions." In a recent conversation, he said that none of the BYPs at the Archives in the late 1990s had DPD initials on them. Harvey and Lee (the book, not the website) has several long write-ups on the photos and the various cameras Marina said she took them with before settling on the Imperial Reflex that she obviously didn't know how to use. From memory, John wrote that the evidence seems to suggest that some of the BYPs were in FBI hands by the evening of 11/22 (before the secret evidence transfer to Washington in the middle of that night), while others, of course, appeared days, weeks, and even decades later. The whole history is preposterous... almost comical, and involved the FBI and Marina in some of their earliest scandals. Hoover had to get personally involved extracting at least one of his agents from his lies. Other researchers have written extensively on this subject too, but I'm most familiar with JA's work. DJs work here is quite interesting!
Definite proof the BYPs were faked - and who is Johnnie GRIZZAFFI and what did he say? - Peter Lemkin - 31-01-2015
Jim Hargrove Wrote:Peter Lemkin Wrote:Well, that is interesting! So, according to J.A., there now are zero photos or negatives of the BYPs in the 'evidence' - or at least not filed as DPD-acquired evidence. Any more information on these 'exhibits' of the BYPs? Only photos, or also a negative; and which ones on display?
I'd put it more that he says that none of the photos followed the traditional chain of evidence for "Oswald's possessions." In a recent conversation, he said that none of the BYPs at the Archives in the late 1990s had DPD initials on them. Harvey and Lee (the book, not the website) has several long write-ups on the photos and the various cameras Marina said she took them with before settling on the Imperial Reflex that she obviously didn't know how to use. From memory, John wrote that the evidence seems to suggest that some of the BYPs were in FBI hands by the evening of 11/22 (before the secret evidence transfer to Washington in the middle of that night), while others, of course, appeared days, weeks, and even decades later. The whole history is preposterous... almost comical, and involved the FBI and Marina in some of their earliest scandals. Hoover had to get personally involved extracting at least one of his agents from his lies. Other researchers have written extensively on this subject too, but I'm most familiar with JA's work. DJs work here is quite interesting!
OK, from 'Oswald's alleged possessions' is a better term; but, we know that other items the DPD obtained and even said they initialed are now not [the shells from the Tippit shooting, for example]. This was not done poorly, it was faked - even several times changed as needed to counter 'problems' and discoveries of the press and Public. It is a joke - a very sad one. The FBI was likely most responsible for faking and changing and adding and disappearing parts of 'evidence'. Some arm of the 'Justice' Dept.! I think the DPD did a bit of their own faking/adding/changing/disappearing too - but it seems less than the FBI and CIA and other Federal Agencies and entities. Hoover was and is a disgrace this Nation will never live down until they denounce him and take his name off of the FBI building. He is responsible for multiple acts of obstruction of justice, conspiracy, murder, treason, and worse!! I'll look in JA's book - its just over there on the shelf - about the BYPs. But we are chasing our tails, as this is faked evidence, faked photos, faked who took them and when, faked chain of evidence [or no chain of evidence], etc. One could make a list of the 100 reasons the 'official version' must be wrong - or 1000 reasons; even 10.000 reasons or more...it is only how much effort you want to exhaust. It only takes ONE thing to disprove the official version [and have it so it would have been thrown out of court, had it ever come to court...which they knew they couldn't...thus killing the patsy.] The BYPs, however, have a special place in the 'game' to set up the patsy....along with just a few other faked acts/events. For this reason, it is not time wasted, IMO, to try to discover exactly how, who and when they faked/tampered with this phoney 'evidence'. :
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Definite proof the BYPs were faked - and who is Johnnie GRIZZAFFI and what did he say? - Albert Doyle - 31-01-2015
Any chance the envelope the Back Yard Photos came in was initialed and simply not available?