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+--- Thread: The "Other" Zapruder Film (/thread-4558.html)
The "Other" Zapruder Film - A.J. Blocker - 11-01-2011
Take depositions from those that claim to have seen other versions of the Z film, especially those on NBC or CBS premises. Take depositions from those that claim to have seen other versions of the Z film in LA law offices or at Hollywood parties or in Dallas homes of Oil millionaries.
Then supoena H.L. Hunts family, Clint Murchison Jnr's family, NBC and CBS current presidents to release these films thru a class action civil suit that claims they are for witholding evidence in a capital crime.
The "Other" Zapruder Film - Bernice Moore - 12-01-2011
Perhaps Jack, or David can add information to this, but there is or was a report, that there were film crews in trucks or such reported in the area that day, i recall rich mentioning such, but that's all i recall...ourselves we know there is another film taken somewhere in the park area down near the underpass, with the view filmng up towards the tsbd, we saw a clip that day on telly, my dad and husband hollared out loud to come running, i did it was only seconds long a quick clip, it may have been on cbc or an american channel probably buffalo, and we never saw it again that long week-end, they tried the other channels many times during that afternoon and evening but to no avail, it showed the limo coming towards the underpass, it showed also the fence area steps etc, not close up, and when i came upon the forum, rich's and read about the other zapruder film, i was not really surprised as the clip we saw had never been seen again by us,within the telly specials videos etc..down through the years.i contacted scott myers at that time first, and he helped me view every film available on the web, there is not another like it showing that opposite view, when i contacted rich some time later the first thought on his mind was did we see the limo stop, no, and if so we did not notice, so there it sat until one day rich was at the alts, and low and behold a man had posted with just about the same info about a film he saw that was the same as ours,and he wanted to know, i think what film it was from, rich tried to contact him but his information was no longer active, so all i know is there is somewhere another film not like the zapruder but a film taken showing the view from down near the area of the underpass looking up towards the corner of elm and houston, we know what we saw, we did not add anything to what we saw or did not see, just the limo view from the south side, taking off, for rich,and the angle of the view, but nothing else came to mind and we did not add any information other than what i have stated here, so if that one can disappear, then others could have also, though i imagine they are all alive and well, and perhaps as the ss show their copy of the zapruder to their members on how to assassinate a president,perhaps they show the missing also, and they more than likely show the real snappy zappy to their trainees..for now......best b:rockandroll:
The "Other" Zapruder Film - Peter Lemkin - 12-01-2011
A.J. Blocker Wrote:Take depositions from those that claim to have seen other versions of the Z film, especially those on NBC or CBS premises. Take depositions from those that claim to have seen other versions of the Z film in LA law offices or at Hollywood parties or in Dallas homes of Oil millionaries.
Then supoena H.L. Hunts family, Clint Murchison Jnr's family, NBC and CBS current presidents to release these films thru a class action civil suit that claims they are for witholding evidence in a capital crime.
Where there is a will, there's a way....sadly there is no 'will' to subpoena anyone about any of the assassinations topside; and us common serfs don't have such authority.
May I suggest, just as friendly advice, you not post suggestions of eliminating people - even if meant in jest o rin a metaphoric 'thought experiment' sense. Such are the times.... The government does it all the time, but again, serfs even thinking or speaking about such can be dealt a very bad 'hand'.
The "Other" Zapruder Film - Peter Lemkin - 12-01-2011
Bernice Moore Wrote:i finally dug it up and milicent cranor saw the other film, on the premises of NBC in NYC...
in the following Rich speaks for himself, as he always did in his replies to some questions...often asked...
The "other" film -- FAQs
Post by: admin on March 15, 2009, 06:51 AM
Since I appeared recently on Len Osanic's "Black Op" radio
program, I have been receiving several questions, I'll try and
answer them here:
1. Where can this film be viewed?
I really don't know. I believe that copies exist in various places around the world.
However I have no knowledge where it can be viewed. I never at any time possessed
a copy myself. When I saw it, the film was shown by a person unknown to me along
with some others in a suburb of Washington DC (College Park, MD).
2. Do you believe it is an unedited version of the Zapruder Film?
Personally, I do not believe the film is in any way a version of the Zapruder
film. The Z film appears amateurish to me and unrealistic in the sense that it
seems like an animated "cartoon". The "other" film seemed to be professionally
done with great color rendition and smooth panning. Additionally, I am unsure as
to whether Zapruder shot the film attributed to him. A French photo journalist
who saw the film on several occasions does refer to it as an unedited version
of the Z film FWIW.
3. What are the major discrepancies in what is seen on both films?
The "other" film shows the limo on Houston Street as it turns onto Elm.
The Z film does not even though Z testified that he began filming when
the limo first came into view and did not stop filming until the limo left
the Plaza,
The 'other" film shows the limo making a wide turn onto Elm, nearly going
up on the curb and as though it first was headed to the service road in front
of the TSBD. Greer apparently struggled to navigate into the center of Elm.
The crowd appeared quite animated as the limo progressed down Elm St.
In the Z film, the crowd appears frozen.
In the "other" film, the Umbrella man is seem pumping the umbrella up and down,
not just holding it over his head. I've concluded that he may have been signaling
the various shooters to open fire -- that JFK was still alive. In the Z film the open
umbrella seems stationary except that a slight rotation can be detected.
The dark complected man with the cap alternately nicknamed TA (The Accomplice)
and The Cuban is seen in the "other" film motioning with an upraised arm while
he stepped into the street and was approaching the limo. He formed his up-raised
hand into a fist -- perhaps the infantryman's signal to "stop." I have concluded
that he was trying to attract Greer and Kellerman to stop the limo exactly at
his position -- which they did. the Limo was stopped ~2 to 3 seconds. The Z
film shows no stop.
The stop was so sudden that it jostled the occupants forward. A portion of this
forward motion can be detected in the extant Z film.
With the limo stopped, Greer turned to face JFK. At that moment JFK received
2 shots to the head: one from the rear causing his head to move forward slightly
and one to the right temple, fired from the front, resulting in a violent explosion
out the rear of JFK's head and sending a huge spray of blood and brain matter
toward DPD Officer Hargis hitting his helmet with what William Manchester
termed a "red sheet" and with such force that Hargis later said he thought he
himself was hit. This most gory explosion of matter is not accurately
portrayed in the extant Z Film.
Apparently once that Greer saw that JFK was hit, he then swung around and
accelerated the limo leaving Dealey Plaza and passing the lead car to entrance
the Stemmons freeway.
4. If the Zapruder film is altered, why did "they" leave in the explosive
head shot?
The first thing to keep in mind is that "they" never believed the Z film would
be viewed by the public. Members of the WC stated that they believed only
a few college professors would even read their report. With Time, Inc. and
the FBI controlling access to the Z film they could control who could view it
or even selected frames from it. If questioned, they could always say it was
being withheld due to concern over the Kennedy family's right to privacy.
In 1975, the extant Z film was shown on national TV on Geraldo Rivera's
"Goodnight America" program by Robert Groden. That segment
can be found on MPI's DVD Image Of An Assassination." The public
was shocked to see the head shot. To many, the Z film was proof of a
second gunman, one firing from the front. To counter those beliefs a
Nobel winning physicist (Luis Alvarez) concocted a "jet effect" theory to
explain how a shot from the TSBD could cause the violent "back and to the
left" reaction defying Newton's 2nd law of motion. Newton's second law of
motion can be formally stated as follows:
The acceleration of an object as produced by a net force is directly proportional
to the magnitude of the net force, in the same direction as the net force, and
inversely proportional to the mass of the object.
(http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/GBSSCI/PHYS/CLASS/newtlaws/u2l3a.html).
The alterationists IMO HAD to leave in the fatal head shot. They couldn't
very well claim that JFK was a victim of whiplash. At the necessary time
Dr Alvarez was dragged out to produce a total canard.
5. Why was the Zapruder film fabricated/altered?
IMO, and simply stated, the purposes of altering the Z film, in order of
priority, were:6. On 11/23, Dan Rather claimed to have viewed the Z film, the first
- To remove all evidence of multiple shooters
- To remove evidence of shots from any direction but the rear if possible
- To remove evidence of Secret Service complicity
reporter to do so. He claimed that JFK's head was throw violently
forward not backward. How can that be?
IMO, he may have been shown an early attempt of an altered film in which
the frames were reversed. But it is possible that he saw NO film at all --
and he was instructed what to say. Keep in mind that on 11/22, Rather was
simply a TV reporter for the local Dallas CBS affiliate -- but virtually overnight
he was promoted to CBS's official White House Correspondent. Quid pro quo??
7. Will the "other" film ever become accessible to the public?
I truly doubt it. It is a dangerous property because that one film proves that
JFK was murdered as a part of a well planned and executed conspiracy. It
lays the WCR bare as an intentionally written pack of lies and proves the
complicity of the Secret Service, the FBI, and the highest levels of the
U.S government.
I have known of ~ a half dozen people who have seen the film in the distant,
past -- yet no two ever saw it in the same place at the same time. I truly
wish that someone would come forward and report a more recent viewing.
I truly do.
Ah, makes me miss Rich. I don't know what years he saw it, but I know I contacted him privately and told him that I know someone who wishes to remain nameless in this regard who saw it not too many years ago and their report to me contained the same basic features that Rich mentions.
Its always been a fantasy of mine that when a new President is inaugurated, some group of spooks [official ones, with high clearances and big salaries and positions] sit the new Prez down and show him this film in the dark. Then the lights come on and they ask, "Any questions Mr. President?" In my mind the new Presidents never ask anything or mention it ever again. However, after the viewing any remaining autonomy they might have thought they had is then in the negative range of numbers, if not into imaginary numbers......
The "Other" Zapruder Film - Charles Drago - 12-01-2011
A.J. Blocker Wrote:If that fail's, hire someone to start eliminating relatives of these two great American families until the current patriarch gives up their copies of the assassination film which we have proof was obtained with hours of the assassination by a H.L Hunt employee.
Under no circumstances will I sit silent while an e-publication which I co-own is used to publish a call for murder.
I am a Free Speech absolutist, and I wholeheartedly defend A. J. Blocker's right to make such a call.
I am also within my legal and moral rights to oppose and, within rules established by this forum's owners, reject publication on DPF of incitements to violence.
The "Other" Zapruder Film - Pamela McElwain-Brown - 12-01-2011
I attended a screening of the Zapruder film in NYC in the late fall of 1964. At the time, I knew that this was unusual, but had no idea that it would be virtually unheard of. I included a reference to this event in my esay "SS-100-X" in CAR CRASH CULTURE, Palgrave,2002. The film was shown following the David Wolper b+w documentary on the JFK administration called "1000 days". I sat in the front row, and watched this clear copy. My impression was that all the debris flowed to the rear, and there was no 'blob'. Having this experience has influenced everything I believe about the Zapruder film(s). When I tried to track down the theatre, I initially thought it might have been the Bleeker. However, I contacted the grandson of the owner at that time, and he said he didn't think so. He pointed me to someone else who said he thought it was shown at the Charles Theatre, on the lower East Side. I have since visited that site and it fits with my recollections; so does the interior, from photos.
The "Other" Zapruder Film - Jack White - 12-01-2011
Pamela McElwain-Brown Wrote:I attended a screening of the Zapruder film in NYC in the late fall of 1964. At the time, I knew that this was unusual, but had no idea that it would be virtually unheard of. I included a reference to this event in my esay "SS-100-X" in CAR CRASH CULTURE, Palgrave,2002. The film was shown following the David Wolper b+w documentary on the JFK administration called "1000 days". I sat in the front row, and watched this clear copy. My impression was that all the debris flowed to the rear, and there was no 'blob'. Having this experience has influenced everything I believe about the Zapruder film(s). When I tried to track down the theatre, I initially thought it might have been the Bleeker. However, I contacted the grandson of the owner at that time, and he said he didn't think so. He pointed me to someone else who said he thought it was shown at the Charles Theatre, on the lower East Side. I have since visited that site and it fits with my recollections; so does the interior, from photos.
Too bad you cannot provide more info than this. Proof of this would
be highly significant.
Jack
The "Other" Zapruder Film - Paul Rigby - 12-01-2011
Frank Nelson Wrote:A thought kicking around the minds of several people I interact with is perhaps the �Zapruder movie� was prepared way in advance of the attack and all that was used from Zapruder�s film was just the background spectators...
Not so. The version of the film we have is remarkable for the Elm Street spectators it omits. This is precisely what one would expect of a film (either) prepared in advance and/or subject to extensive revision.
Frank Nelson Wrote:In other words, the faces of the real attack victims could have been added to actor�s bodies filmed in a similar vehicle (or a portion of a similar vehicle) prior to the attack. Hollywood and Madison Avenue does this all the time, using stunt doubles and morphing faces and bodies. Bits and pieces of what Zapruder captured would then be merged into a finished illusion that was falsely portrayed as the �Zapruder film�.
Use of "doubles," back-projection, etc? Routine Hollywood and Madison Avenue practice well before 1963. Point well-made.
Frank Nelson Wrote:Why would this be done in advance? To have a quick propaganda film for the public and to fund the operation through magazine and newspaper sales. Exclusive massacre photos and film sells; sales equate to fat wallets.
And that was precisely the intention, early on at least. If you listen to Rather on CBS on November 25, there's no suggestion that the version of the Z-fake he'd just watched was intended for anything other than broadcasting. Other sources attest to the first version's distribution on the same day.
Frank Nelson Wrote:It�s easily realized that whoever ambushed JFK didn�t just happen to show up at the kill zone out of the wild blue a couple minutes before the shooting and just happen to have assault weapons in their possession; that location was picked well in advance and the attack probably rehearsed in advance as well. It�s not unreasonable to suspect the Zapruder filming was also prepared in advance.
I agree.
All in all, an incisive and thought-provoking post.
Incidentally, by far the strangest position is that of the pro-conspiracy anti-alterationists, who invite us to believe that the plotters were sufficiently bold and powerful to kill the President in broad daylight, but too timid and socially unconnected to move against the pieces of celluloid we are invited to believe blew their carefully nurtured fables out of the water. Now that really is weird; and is a powerful pointer to just how topsy-turvy is much of the exhausted assassination consensus.
Paul
The "Other" Zapruder Film - Pamela McElwain-Brown - 13-01-2011
Jack White Wrote:Pamela McElwain-Brown Wrote:I attended a screening of the Zapruder film in NYC in the late fall of 1964. At the time, I knew that this was unusual, but had no idea that it would be virtually unheard of. I included a reference to this event in my esay "SS-100-X" in CAR CRASH CULTURE, Palgrave,2002. The film was shown following the David Wolper b+w documentary on the JFK administration called "1000 days". I sat in the front row, and watched this clear copy. My impression was that all the debris flowed to the rear, and there was no 'blob'. Having this experience has influenced everything I believe about the Zapruder film(s). When I tried to track down the theatre, I initially thought it might have been the Bleeker. However, I contacted the grandson of the owner at that time, and he said he didn't think so. He pointed me to someone else who said he thought it was shown at the Charles Theatre, on the lower East Side. I have since visited that site and it fits with my recollections; so does the interior, from photos.
Too bad you cannot provide more info than this. Proof of this would
be highly significant.
Jack
I am continuing my research now. What would be valuable to you?
The "Other" Zapruder Film - Jack White - 13-01-2011
Pamela McElwain-Brown Wrote:Jack White Wrote:Pamela McElwain-Brown Wrote:I attended a screening of the Zapruder film in NYC in the late fall of 1964. At the time, I knew that this was unusual, but had no idea that it would be virtually unheard of. I included a reference to this event in my esay "SS-100-X" in CAR CRASH CULTURE, Palgrave,2002. The film was shown following the David Wolper b+w documentary on the JFK administration called "1000 days". I sat in the front row, and watched this clear copy. My impression was that all the debris flowed to the rear, and there was no 'blob'. Having this experience has influenced everything I believe about the Zapruder film(s). When I tried to track down the theatre, I initially thought it might have been the Bleeker. However, I contacted the grandson of the owner at that time, and he said he didn't think so. He pointed me to someone else who said he thought it was shown at the Charles Theatre, on the lower East Side. I have since visited that site and it fits with my recollections; so does the interior, from photos.
Too bad you cannot provide more info than this. Proof of this would
be highly significant.
Jack
I am continuing my research now. What would be valuable to you?
Highly significant would be a newspaper ad announcing the movie, its name,
theater and date. Old remembrances, even if accurate, are not good evidence.
Next would be finding another person who remembered seeing the same thing
you saw. That lends credibility to your remembrance.
Jack