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+--- Thread: The Two NPIC Zapruder Film Events: Signposts Pointing to the Film's Alteration (/Thread-The-Two-NPIC-Zapruder-Film-Events-Signposts-Pointing-to-the-Film-s-Alteration)
The Two NPIC Zapruder Film Events: Signposts Pointing to the Film's Alteration - Dawn Meredith - 24-10-2012
PS: Jan nailed it, above!
Dawn
The Two NPIC Zapruder Film Events: Signposts Pointing to the Film's Alteration - David Josephs - 24-10-2012
Phil Dragoo Wrote:Perforated Number: The Zapruder 8mm film was identified during processing with a number 0183 perforated vertically within the 8mm width as a part of company practice for customer identification a control system to match the processing request or order to the film. The perforation would typically be located at the core of the returned 8mm reel, thus placing it following the scene exposed last the customer tails end of side two. Also note that as the laboratory receives the film, this location is at the outside end of the camera spool, immediately following the integral camera thread-up leader that will be removed prior to processing.
Selected Analysis JFK Photographic Evidence 15 -STUDY 1 - R.J. Zavada, Aug. 31, 1998
http://www.jfk-info.com/zstudy1b.pdf
Maybe I'm missing something here Phil...
Isn't the evidence in Zavada's ARRB study here conclusively saying that the film called the "In Camera Original" has NONE OF THE MARKINGS that the in Camera Original SHOULD have...
and is only identified as ORIGINAL based on the "0183" print thru seen on the SS copies....
There is nothing in Zavada's study that supports this "original" as being the original...
I've tried to tie the math together again...
Zavada states that the edge printing is 10.5 inches apart on the film...
I went thru the Zframes and found the following: suggests to me that the altered film was copied onto this roll of film so the IS area works and the spacing of the edge print works.
18 frames / 24 - 42: edge print
48 frames / 43 - 91: blank
17 frames / 92 - 109: edge print
46 frames / 110 - 156: blank
17 frames / 157 - 174: edge print
48 frames / 175 - 223: blank
17 frames / 224 - 241: edge print
45 frames / 242 - 287: blank
17 frames / 288 - 305: edge print
48 frames / 306 - 354: blank
18 frames / 355 - 373: edge print
45 frames / 374 - 419: blank
17 frames / 420 - 437: edge print
48 frames / 438 - 486: to end without edge print
This suggests that 10.5 inches = 48 frames = .21875 inches per frame
486 - 133 = 353 frames of the assassination = 6'3"
6'3" / .21875 inches per frame = 343 frames
there is also 2'7" of BLANK FILM... equates to 86-87 frames at .21875" per frame.
plus 25'1" of SPLICED IN BLANK FILM... which equates to 1,376 frames.
How can there be an explanation for the ORIGINAL, not to have the 0183 on it as well as NOT HAVING the processing edge print on the MOTORCADE SIDE yet it appears on the Home Movie side...
and then there's the elusive 0184....
DJ
(EDIT - instead of using estimates of 48 frames = 10.5 inches, I went to find the actual dimensions of each frame... there is also a slight line between each frame that will add up as well...
I adjust this measurement in my next post - sorry for the assumption rather than the source info))
The Two NPIC Zapruder Film Events: Signposts Pointing to the Film's Alteration - Greg Burnham - 24-10-2012
Jan,
Thanks for your very astute observations. I find myself in the uncomfortable position of being a witness...uncomfortable for several reasons.
First, I much prefer being a researcher. I don't like the type of attention that typically accompanies the former. Second, the objectivity that
is necessary to think critically can be inadvertently compromised by one's personal affective reaction to direct sensory stimuli as opposed to
the natural buffer a researcher enjoys by virtue of a more than "arm's length" proximity to the immediate impact of the subject.
Given those things, the very best I can do is simply state what I recall as dispassionately as possible. Approaching it otherwise is too large a
drain of energy to be sure. I think I'll go take a nap now.
The Two NPIC Zapruder Film Events: Signposts Pointing to the Film's Alteration - Phil Dragoo - 24-10-2012
David
That's the point of my transcribing Zavada's paragraph: here is the typical; the most important film of the 20th century is atypical.
Absence of 0183 indicates forgery.
Absence of 0184 is tossed off as "automatic advance"--a mechanical anomaly, not the existence of another film not extant.
This of course is consistent with Zavada's verbose The-Dog-Ate-The-Film-But-The-Vomitus-Is-Authentic.
Your demonstration of the inconsistencies and arithmetical analysis indicates forgery.
I mean, come on--the camera had a 24fps setting and a 48fps setting but "Zapruder's camera ran at 18.3fps"--
--and this warm wetness on America's leg is rain.
CD Jackson left the scene, so can't answer questions.
McMahon saw eight shots from three directions.
Hollywood professionals go coffee-through-the-nose when they see the bubblegum wound inflate/deflate w/zero splatter.
This film doesn't rise to the values of I Caught Bigfoot Skipping Through The Woods.
The Two NPIC Zapruder Film Events: Signposts Pointing to the Film's Alteration - David Josephs - 26-10-2012
Phil Dragoo Wrote:David
That's the point of my transcribing Zavada's paragraph: here is the typical; the most important film of the 20th century is atypical.
Absence of 0183 indicates forgery.
Absence of 0184 is tossed off as "automatic advance"--a mechanical anomaly, not the existence of another film not extant.
This of course is consistent with Zavada's verbose The-Dog-Ate-The-Film-But-The-Vomitus-Is-Authentic.
Your demonstration of the inconsistencies and arithmetical analysis indicates forgery.
I mean, come on--the camera had a 24fps setting and a 48fps setting but "Zapruder's camera ran at 18.3fps"--
--and this warm wetness on America's leg is rain.
CD Jackson left the scene, so can't answer questions.
McMahon saw eight shots from three directions.
Hollywood professionals go coffee-through-the-nose when they see the bubblegum wound inflate/deflate w/zero splatter.
This film doesn't rise to the values of I Caught Bigfoot Skipping Through The Woods.
Let's go a little further Phil... I think we can even figure our how it was altered and refilmed... (btw - it was 16 and 48 fps, not 24 if I rememebr correctly)
If there was alteration with information removed… the Original film HAD to have more frames 48fps is the only other option to 16fps
In the Archive Horne tells us we have 6'3", 75", of film that contains Assassination imagery... what we do not learn from his statement is whether he means 486 total frames or just from 133-486 = 353 frames
Regular 8mm frame dimensions
Camera aperture size (HxW): 3.68 x 4.88mm
Frame area: 17.96sq. mm (3.68x4.88)
Aspect ratio: 1.33:1
16:9 useable frame area: 13.4sq. mm (75%)
normal frame rate: 16fps
3.68mm = .14488 inches PER FRAME
75" of film = 517 frames / 18.3 = 28.25 seconds of film
Zapruder was 486 frames / 18.3 = 26.56 seconds of film
28.25-26.56= 1.69 seconds of film missing at 18.3 if Hornes measurement is accurate
(QUESTION for anyone: how many frames of developed images are there on the A SIDE of the film, the PERSONAL SIDE and pre motorcade frames…? I've seen the numbers somewhere but can't put my hands on them Horne says there were about 177 frames shot pre-motorcade…25.6 inches of film on side B and that SIDE A was filled completely)
That is the only imagery on the 33'1"of film that makes up the "IN CAMERA ORIGINAL" (btw a blank spool has 25 feet of useable film per side, not 33, the final length will include leaders and such placed film at processing.)
75" has images, then there are 2 spliced sections of completely BLANK FILM (not leader, film) HOW CAN ANYONE CLAIM THIS IS AN IN CAMERA ORIGINAL when the "0183" and "Processed by KODAK" edge printing is NOT on this film as well?
Anyway,
486 frames of film = 26.56 seconds of film at 18.3, at 48fps = 1275 frames (IF the entire film was taken at 48fps since the camera easily switched from 16 to 48 fps, it is virtually impossible to tell when this would have been on and off)
No let me make a point while asking a question… if one was to take a 48fps shot film and removed the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] and 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] frame from each 3 frame segment, wouldn't this now look like a film shot at 16fps ? The distance between frame exposures goes from 1/48[SUP]th[/SUP] to 1/16[SUP]th[/SUP] of second and what we see in frames 1/4/7/10/13 on a 48fps film SHOULD BE the same as frames 1/2/3/4/5 on a 16fps film of the same event from the same location.
If frames 1/4/7/10/13 are placed next to each other, run at 16 and RE-filmed at 16fps, wouldn't the IS area of these frames ALSO BE 1/16[SUP]th[/SUP] of a second apart?
So why 18.3fps and how does the NPIC even know to consider 18fps THAT weekend?
LIFE has already provided NPIC, by Sunday evening, the frames, at 18fps, on which shots are seen: 190/264/312… Doesn't this suggest that "264" is the SBT seen at 224 how are they 40 frames off?
To recap:
A film at 48fps would look exactly like a 16fps film if we were to remove the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP]/3[SUP]rd[/SUP] frames from each 3 frame sequence
There are enough frames per second at 48fps to create a believable 18.3fps final film and still remove almost 2/3's of the frames.
There SHOULD BE 517 frames worth of exposed film in 6'3"… there are only 480 frames in the extant portion of the assassination (6 damaged frames 156/7, 208/9/10/11)
Not every bit of the film needed to be filmed at 48fps…. Yet there are tell-tale signs of alteration…
1 no Stop/Start indication at z133
2 break at 156
3 break at 207
4 damage/replacement at z341, z350
5 no IS area on 486
Adding now Altgens claiming the headshot was right in front of him… and I'm pretty confident that 156 350 was originally 48fps…
I just can't decide whether Z would film the whole thing at one speed to allow for any changes needed… or not.
132 to 133 is about how much time? At 48fps there are plenty of frames to choose the right one to be 133… and to remove ALL the excess… 5 seconds(?) of film at 48fps is 240 frames, PLUS the 2 of 3 frames between 1-132 & 133-156 to get the speed to 18.3.
We can deal with 157-207 and 212 thri 350 once we have a few answers here...
DJ
The Two NPIC Zapruder Film Events: Signposts Pointing to the Film's Alteration - Phil Dragoo - 26-10-2012
http://www.copweb.be/Zapruder Camera.htm
In various discussions it is said though Zapruder's was single-shot, 16fps or 48fps, at the time, the industry was moving to 18fps; further, it is stated FBI tested Zapruder's spring-wound camera and found it to operate at an average of 18fps.
Your hypothesis that Zapruder may have operated at 48fps allowing ample material to modify as required seems sound.
In Assassination Science, 1998, The Case for Zapruder Film Tampering: The Blink Pattern, Mike Pincher and Roy L. Schaeffer state their pattern on page 227:
The [limousine] emergency light pulse rate was a constant one established at .41 seconds by an electronic flip-flop switch installed into the electrical circuitry. At 18fps, if unaltered, the Zapruder film would feature the emergency light pulse occupying about seven frames per side. Using the Robert Hughes film, these durations were calculated by observing the limousine as it approached the intersection of Main and Houston streets.
. . .
However, the Zapruder film emergency light blinking pattern lacks this consistency. By examining the blink pattern from Z-133 to Z-181, it is clear that more than seven frames are seen in the pattern, indicating a faster speed than 18fps.
. . .
[The article authors provide Enclosures 4-A, 4-B, 4-C, presenting their findings in four paragraphs and two charts.]
Enclosure 4-A page 236 excerpted:
Because Zapruder's camera only had two settings: 16 and 48 fps, and the blink rate was more than seven continuous flashes per side, the film in Zapruder's camera had to run at a faster setting than 18.3 fps. By closely examining the blink rate chart from Z-133-238 the altered film appears to fluctuate between 12 to 24 fps.
~~~
As analysis shows the limousine to roll at eleven mph while Palamara's 59 describe dramatic departure from that constant, QED frames have been excised.
~~~
Here is a useful exposition from assassinationresearch.com titled Altering the Zapruder Film:
http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v1n1/healy7.html
The Two NPIC Zapruder Film Events: Signposts Pointing to the Film's Alteration - David Josephs - 27-10-2012
So why create a frame by frame recreation (and survey plat) only to provide data that cannot be matched to the actual film?
In fact, data that proves what we see on the z film is not possible...
case in point... with both vehicles moving at 8mph... Hill runs from his spot about 8 feet from the front of the QM, and 5-7 feet to the limo in basically 4 steps...
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/dhjosephs/Hillandlimorun-norightstep.jpg
Hill makes it from the front of the QM to the rear of the limo in basically one large LEFT LEG step...
Watch both Nix/Muchmore and see what appears to me as a SLIDE STEP of his left leg/foot... as he sets it down it seems to move closer to the limo..
For Hill to make that run, the limo has to be going less than 4mph... removing the right frames and it appears as if the limo simply slows slightly...
and then the LIMO is gone... QM does NOT immediately follow...
yet in McIntyre, the QM has caught up with the speeding limo... did we MISS something?
Could the SS agents have jumped out while everyone was watching the limo speed away and no one gets it on film... The end of Bell shows the QM almost on top of the limo BEFORE they leave the triple overpass...
I realize we believe the film was altered - some of us at least - I would like to get past that conclusion and work on HOW it was done... specifically,
while identifying more of the anomolies that support the conclusion
DJ
The Two NPIC Zapruder Film Events: Signposts Pointing to the Film's Alteration - Jan Klimkowski - 27-10-2012
David Josephs Wrote:I realize we believe the film was altered - some of us at least - I would like to get past that conclusion and work on HOW it was done... specifically,
while identifying more of the anomolies that support the conclusion
DJ
David - your analysis is interesting.
However, Doug Horne in the OP of this thread has given the most convincing account yet of what was done, and where it was done, to the original rushes.
My working hypothesis is that the Time Life Zapruder, and the variations on Zapruder as shown to Greg and others, are all cut downs of a master film which has never been shown to the public or any JFK researcher.
The master film would provide a genuine historical record of what happened in Dallas.
Time Life Zapruder, and the various Zapruderettes, provide tantalising clues by omission or alteration, but do not provide a genuine historical record.
Given this, I think endless analysis of a deliberately corrupted and partial text (Time Life Zapruder) is essentially a distraction.
In short, the master film might help answer deep political questions, whilst Time Life Zapruder and the Zapruderettes are akin to Waiting for the Man, humming his song.
The Two NPIC Zapruder Film Events: Signposts Pointing to the Film's Alteration - David Josephs - 27-10-2012
Jan Klimkowski Wrote:David Josephs Wrote:I realize we believe the film was altered - some of us at least - I would like to get past that conclusion and work on HOW it was done... specifically,
while identifying more of the anomolies that support the conclusion
DJ
David - your analysis is interesting.
However, Doug Horne in the OP of this thread has given the most convincing account yet of what was done, and where it was done, to the original rushes.
My working hypothesis is that the Time Life Zapruder, and the variations on Zapruder as shown to Greg and others, are all cut downs of a master film which has never been shown to the public or any JFK researcher.
The master film would provide a genuine historical record of what happened in Dallas.
Time Life Zapruder, and the various Zapruderettes, provide tantalising clues by omission or alteration, but do not provide a genuine historical record.
Given this, I think endless analysis of a deliberately corrupted and partial text (Time Life Zapruder) is essentially a distraction.
In short, the master film might help answer deep political questions, whilst Time Life Zapruder and the Zapruderettes are akin to Waiting for the Man, humming his song.
edit - Forgot to say thanks Jan... and that Horne's work is the basis of all my work... I'm just taking it further...
Intersting the use of the term "MASTER" versus "ORIGINAL" in Phillips note to Rowley: and of course, Zap shows his "BEST COPY" the next morning yet Max here tells us that Zap only has the master... no copies... with a third print to DC... seems to me we're still left with 4 copies... or 2 "originals" the 8mm one sent to Rowley and the 16mm one seen at NPIC.
Finally, other than 48fps, I see no way to "cut down" the original... If the FBI did not determine 18.3 fps until much later, how does LIFE and NPIC eve consider that speed in their analysis unless they are TOLD that weekend that 18fps was the number....
CD - 87 Folder 1
CO2 34030 11/22
9:55
To: Chief Rowley
From: Max D. Phillips
Subject: 8mm movie film showing President
Kennedy being shot
Enclosed is an 8mm movie film
taken by Mr. A. Zapruder, 501 Elm St., Dallas
Texas (RI8-6071)
Mr.. Zapruder was photographing
the President at the instant he was shot.
According to Mr. Zapruder, the position of
the assassin was behind Mr. Zapruder.
Note: Disregard personel scenes
shown on Mr. Zapruder's film.. Mr. Zapruder
is in custody of the "master" film. Two prints
were given to SAIC Sorrels, this date.
The third print is forwarded.
Max D. Phillips
Special Agent - PRS
The Two NPIC Zapruder Film Events: Signposts Pointing to the Film's Alteration - Jan Klimkowski - 27-10-2012
David - see my posts #7 and #25 in this thread.