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+--- Thread: FBI Evidence Proves Oswald's Ammunition was not Capable of Sufficient Accuracy to Kill JFK (/Thread-FBI-Evidence-Proves-Oswald-s-Ammunition-was-not-Capable-of-Sufficient-Accuracy-to-Kill-JFK)
FBI Evidence Proves Oswald's Ammunition was not Capable of Sufficient Accuracy to Kill JFK - Jim Hargrove - 18-04-2014
Drew Phipps Wrote:Thank you all for the nice compliments.
In my work, it is easy to see the government "construct" a case; Oz-like, you are supposed to be impressed by the thunder and smoke - pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. An analogous situation happened to the Warren Commission, they were handed a crappy set of cards and told what to make of it. The Warren Commission was playing catch up right from the starting gate. Projecting confidence isn't fraud, or is it?
Since the WC evidence is such a house of cards, I doubt that the "pre-assassination conspiracy" cared much about the difficult work they left for the consequent "post-assassination conspiracy," so long as the mission is accomplished, the shooters get away, and so long as there WAS a convenient patsy. Local law enforcement would see to the rest. Which indicates a disturbing lack of concern on the part of the plotters, and thereby should help us, now, identify some of the participants.
Welcome aboard, Mr. Phipps!
Since so much of the evidence appears to be invented from whole cloth, is it naive of me to wonder why so much of it is so bad? Why couldn't simple false details be written down, distributed in disappearing ink, and followed in J Edgar's basement crime lab or wherever all the bs was invented so that better evidence could be presented to us rubes? Was this some sort of Sicilian message?
He who dares seek peace had better run?
Jim
FBI Evidence Proves Oswald's Ammunition was not Capable of Sufficient Accuracy to Kill JFK - LR Trotter - 18-04-2014
Jim Hargrove Wrote:Drew Phipps Wrote:Thank you all for the nice compliments.
In my work, it is easy to see the government "construct" a case; Oz-like, you are supposed to be impressed by the thunder and smoke - pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. An analogous situation happened to the Warren Commission, they were handed a crappy set of cards and told what to make of it. The Warren Commission was playing catch up right from the starting gate. Projecting confidence isn't fraud, or is it?
Since the WC evidence is such a house of cards, I doubt that the "pre-assassination conspiracy" cared much about the difficult work they left for the consequent "post-assassination conspiracy," so long as the mission is accomplished, the shooters get away, and so long as there WAS a convenient patsy. Local law enforcement would see to the rest. Which indicates a disturbing lack of concern on the part of the plotters, and thereby should help us, now, identify some of the participants.
Welcome aboard, Mr. Phipps!
Since so much of the evidence appears to be invented from whole cloth, is it naive of me to wonder why so much of it is so bad? Why couldn't simple false details be written down, distributed in disappearing ink, and followed in J Edgar's basement crime lab or wherever all the bs was invented so that better evidence could be presented to us rubes? Was this some sort of Sicilian message?
He who dares seek peace had better run?
Jim
Jim, the ability for you to have this conversation and immediately examine the subject during a conversation with Mr Phipps, is miles and miles ahead of any thinking being done in the early 1960s. I believe you are in or near Canada, and Mr Phipps is in or near Austin, if I am correct. I don't know the age of you gentlemen, but I remember a lot of the 1950s, and a lot more of the 1960s, so I can tell you, the thought process of half of a century ago could not comprehend anything like this, and also didn't consider that so much energy would still be going on at this time. How likely would it be for you to know each other without the internet? The speed of electricity is just not something that was of concern back then as it relates to today. I just believe that has a lot to do with how sloppy things appear now, that were not so bad some time ago.
::fortuneteller::
FBI Evidence Proves Oswald's Ammunition was not Capable of Sufficient Accuracy to Kill JFK - LR Trotter - 18-04-2014
Bleep!::face.palm::
FBI Evidence Proves Oswald's Ammunition was not Capable of Sufficient Accuracy to Kill JFK - Drew Phipps - 18-04-2014
I am 53. One of my first childhood memories is watching my mother cry at the TV set, and if my memory at age 2.5 can be trusted, it was JFK's funeral. Although our technology has evolved by leaps and bounds, our criminal justice system would be instantly recognizable to any Founding Father. The Warren Commission's whitewash (to borrow a phrase from Harold Weisberg) of the case was convincing enough scientifically that most ordinary people bought it at the time. Probably most people wanted to believe it. But, as you know, there were critics of the WC from the beginning, Harold Weisberg among them.
Why wasn't a better cover up done? I don't think the reason has solely to do with technology. I am of the opinion that if the "plotters" and the "plodders" were the same group of folks, they would have had a more convincing cover story.
FBI Evidence Proves Oswald's Ammunition was not Capable of Sufficient Accuracy to Kill JFK - Jim Hargrove - 18-04-2014
Drew Phipps Wrote:Why wasn't a better cover up done? I don't think the reason has solely to do with technology. I am of the opinion that if the "plotters" and the "plodders" were the same group of folks, they would have had a more convincing cover story.
That's funny!
The plotters made a few mistakes too. The HSCA had to grant immunity to Castro's personal friend and gun supplier Robert McKeown before he would testify, but then he swore that a "Lee Oswald" visited him in '63 and tried to buy some rifles, eventually offering an absurdly high price when McKeown began to smell a rat. Had "Oswald" succeeded in the buy. is there much doubt that the weapon from Castro's good buddy and personal gunrunner would have replaced the trouble-plagued Carcano? That would have made the Castro-did-it plot even harder for Johnson to quash.
FBI Evidence Proves Oswald's Ammunition was not Capable of Sufficient Accuracy to Kill JFK - Bob Prudhomme - 18-04-2014
Although I have nothing in the way of proof to back up my beliefs, I tend to think the people that brought us the assassination would have been very pleased if other conspirators beside LHO had turned up and they all could have been tied in to Cuba and Russia.
The reason the coverup looks so "thrown together" is that it may very well be just that; a last minute scramble to implicate a lone assassin and avoid a nuclear exchange with the USSR. LBJ and the WC, should the truth ever come out, may go down in History one day as patriotic heroes that saved the lives of 120 million Americans.
FBI Evidence Proves Oswald's Ammunition was not Capable of Sufficient Accuracy to Kill JFK - Jim Hargrove - 18-04-2014
Bob Prudhomme Wrote:Although I have nothing in the way of proof to back up my beliefs, I tend to think the people that brought us the assassination would have been very pleased if other conspirators beside LHO had turned up and they all could have been tied in to Cuba and Russia.
The reason the coverup looks so "thrown together" is that it may very well be just that; a last minute scramble to implicate a lone assassin and avoid a nuclear exchange with the USSR. LBJ and the WC, should the truth ever come out, may go down in History one day as patriotic heroes that saved the lives of 120 million Americans.
You may be forgetting some basics here. There was a very obvious effort to set up Oswald for the hit during the six or eight weeks prior to the assassination, probably starting with Harvey Oswald's memorable performance at the Fair Play for Cuba charade in NOLA. But there was also the attempt by "Oswald" to buy rifles from Castro's friend and gunrunner, Robert McKeown, and then the string of set-ups in and around Dallas, probably by Lee Oswald, including,
LEE Oswald's numerous visits to the Sports Dome Rifle Range, often making a scene, often stating his name, at least once getting his scope sighted.
LEE Oswald's visit to Morgan's Gun Shop and Dial Ryder's to buy ammo and get his scope mounted (supposedly already mounted on the Klein's rifle).
LEE Oswald's visit to the Downtown Lincoln Mercury dealership to test drive a car, where he announced he would soon be coming into money (American-born Lee Oswald had a Texas driver's license, Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald didn't).
Job applications at the high-rise Statler Hilton Hotel and, later, the Southland Building, where he asks if there is a good view of downtown Dallas from the roof.
If memory serves, at a number of these occasions he announces that he hates President Kennedy.
There was a Hollywood movie starring Burt Lancaster about this very set-up called Executive Action.
FBI Evidence Proves Oswald's Ammunition was not Capable of Sufficient Accuracy to Kill JFK - Drew Phipps - 18-04-2014
The "plotters" may be trying to set up LHO in advance, believing that his defection, marriage and FPCC activity in New Orleans would be sufficient to inspire a Commie plot. Indeed, DA Henry Wade indicted LHO with murder "in the course of a Communist conspiracy." (not a separate offense from murder, even in Texas) Whereas the "plodders" - the WC, with their marching orders from LBJ and Hoover, are apparently doing everything they can to avoid a war. Which kinda sorta implies that there are 2 separate orchestras playing different sheet music.
FBI Evidence Proves Oswald's Ammunition was not Capable of Sufficient Accuracy to Kill JFK - Dawn Meredith - 18-04-2014
Drew Phipps Wrote:The "plotters" may be trying to set up LHO in advance, believing that his defection, marriage and FPCC activity in New Orleans would be sufficient to inspire a Commie plot. Indeed, DA Henry Wade indicted LHO with murder "in the course of a Communist conspiracy." (not a separate offense from murder, even in Texas) Whereas the "plodders" - the WC, with their marching orders from LBJ and Hoover, are apparently doing everything they can to avoid a war. Which kinda sorta implies that there are 2 separate orchestras playing different sheet music.
Drew I have never heard that LHO was actually indicted.
Do you mean "indicted" as in "accused", as there was no time to convene a Grand Jury.
Dawn
FBI Evidence Proves Oswald's Ammunition was not Capable of Sufficient Accuracy to Kill JFK - Jim Hargrove - 18-04-2014
Drew Phipps Wrote:The "plotters" may be trying to set up LHO in advance, believing that his defection, marriage and FPCC activity in New Orleans would be sufficient to inspire a Commie plot. Indeed, DA Henry Wade indicted LHO with murder "in the course of a Communist conspiracy." (not a separate offense from murder, even in Texas) Whereas the "plodders" - the WC, with their marching orders from LBJ and Hoover, are apparently doing everything they can to avoid a war. Which kinda sorta implies that there are 2 separate orchestras playing different sheet music.
That sounds exactly right, but the "plodders" task was made more difficult because of the three-fold cover-up that was required.
- Explaining that Ozzie was a Lone Nut,
- Tidying up an extremely messy biography of said Lone Nut, and
- Explaining that the Lone Nut had no USG ties, especially to the CIA or the FBI.
To me, at least, it speaks volumes that before Oswald was even charged Hoover was concentrating on Oswald's teen-aged employment in New Orleans and his elementary and junior high school records in NYC, New Orleans, and Ft. Worth. Wouldn't most people say those are pretty strange priorities? How 'bout looking for co-conspirators first and looking for elementary school records later?